9/11: DOB of Islamophobia

#194 by hasanmahmood

[Because Muslims love and worship everyone on equal footing.]

Including goats. :))

[What if we started worshipping the goras - how embarassing will that be - But wait dont you guys already do that]

I thought it is you guys who have had your lips sealed firmly around the goras` (the USA`s, in particular) rear orifice for the last fifty years. Want me to give you embarrasing details of the exchanges between your hundreds of dictators and ``elected`` leaders and the US foreign office people? Like ``jump when we say, or we shall bomb you to stone age (paraphrasing)``.

:)

#195 by sattar2

Short answer is `yes`.

Same principle as in Israel destroying homes of Palestinian fighters with bulldozers.

Zeemax,

`` ... If you kill our women and children as fair game in war, we will kill your women and children as fair game in war ...``

Whether you emphasize ``If`` ... or ``as fair game in war`` ... in your statement, is meaningless. You are still advocating killing innocent women/children ... with whom you have no beef.

Re-read your statement ... and ask yourself: Is it fair that you kill their women and children ... if you cannot get to them?

Re: # 138 and #141
[.... zeemax and masadi express their undying love and worship for Arabs...]

Because Muslims love and worship everyone on equal footing. What if we started worshipping the goras - how embarassing will that be - But wait dont you guys already do that

Re: # 181
Actually,
the muslim women are still better off because they dont have to call themselves Hindu in front of anyone. Can you imagine the shame and embarssment that will cause. It will give rise to all sorts of questions like why are you not ugly if you are a Hindu? or Why are you parents and siblings not allowing you to dance in front of everyone? or why dont you smell of heeng? So I guess muslim women still consider theemselves lucky as they dont have apologize to every gora for being a Hindu....

#191 by jang

I don`t discuss with idiots.

zeemax, while you consider jihad to be divinely ordained and something of special value to revealed to muslims, to outsiders it feels like a standard-issue tribal resistance or revenge which has been practiced by all kinds of human and macaca tribes. what is so special about it?

#188/9 by haider5

Firstly, you mistook my statement for denoting revenge. Let`s re-phrase it at follows:

``If you kill our women and children as fair game in war, we will kill your women and children as fair game in war``.

Secondly, I do not like to quote Quranic verses on these unworthy pages. It only leads to desecration and blasphemy by heathens and macacas; besides our resident secularoons / moderatoons pulling out all sorts of interpretations and misinterpretations which I consider purely imaginery. Another reason is I am not a neighbourhood Maulvi to flaunt Quranic verses and Ahadees in defence of whatever position I may have at any point in time.

Next, we`ll need to agree on a couple of overriding premises by which I carry my argument, one of which I will make an exception by quoting here:

44:58 Fainnama yassarnahu bilisanika laAAallahum yatathakkaroona

( Thus, then, we have made this easy to understand, in your own tongue, so that men might take it to heart.)

So the premise is that Quran is not esoteric, nor was meant to be. It is simple, with enough room for reasoning by common minds. It neither demands literalism to free the reader from all freedom of choice, nor presents complex philosophies. In short, it was meant for the pagans of the desert and not for the chowk intellectuals.

The other premise is upon `Tauheed` being the supreme and ultimate destination of the Quranic message. This being the paramount spiritual pillar amongst the 5 pillars of Islam; i.e. rest being social and ritualistic.

If we agree on the above two premises, then we can continue. Otherwise it is pointless.

As for Jihad, I had listed ten groups fighting now. I consider ALL of them Jihad, not only fully justified but ORDAINED under one or another Quranic injunction; while you consider NONE to be so. Therefore we have a long way to go.

zeemax

hope you will come up with good answer. i am not doudted about your indepth knowledge on islam and international relations, in which i am quite incompetent. i am eagerly waiting for your answer. and i dont know wether you are older than me or not but i know you are bingger than me in knowldge so i cannot tag you with any pathetic name.

thanks
haider

zeemax

{I`m not sure whether 9/11 was carried out by Muslims; but even if it had been, their answer would be :If you kill our women and children, we will kill your women and children.}

i am really grateful that you have proved me right at very outset of your post.

i wrote once:

``wherever it is carried out to satisfy ones own ego it is not jihad, its personal war so its a very sacred word for us and the thinline between jihad and personal war needs to be understood. and the jihadis you talk about are fighting their personal wars to satisfy their egos so they cannot be called jihadi in any sense``

and you wrote:

``if you kill our women and children, we will kill your women and children``

SO:

where is jihad?
where is islam?
where is God?

here i am quite comfortable to say under the light of your notion that this is revenge, personal war, ego. BUT NOT JIHAD.

hope you will come up with some reference of Hadith or quran to prove claiming Jihad in this situation as obligatory.(if you kill our women and children, we will kill your women and children)

beleive me or not i wish you could come up with some solid reasoning based on islamic sharia to prove your notion right and your objective should be to make the Liberaloons/Moderatoon like me to accept your school of thought. and plz prevent beating the bush.

you once said that haider is badly confused to urstruly. i started thinking at that time that i might be wrong. but i tried to adopt the way to question you to know your point of view where you feel i am worng. but when i asked about the jihad you said it is all written in the sura baqara and didnot tell me a single extra word and started tagging me with different names, which i was not expecting. beleive me i wanted to be corrected. but now i feel that your objectives are different perhaps you are trying to defend your ownselves not islam. you come up with the auguments to prove yourself right against bjkumar and the party. but you never tried to prove the teachings of islam logical and right. and there is hell of difference.

here let me tell you your mail contains lots of confusions. which can be pointed out easily.
for example you tried to prove your notion by giving the example of hiroshima`s nuclear bombing giving it the shape of hypothesis. which is totally wrong because they would have never said it Jihad simply because they are not muslim. wish you had quoted some example from Islamic world.

There are many more. Will elaborate in next mails. come to point.

thanks
haider

Re: # 186

Zee Jee,

when did Spain use F-16 to bomb Muslim populations to deserve the Madrid attacks? How about the Bali attacks, did the population of Balennese suffer muslim wrath because they were using slingshots? How about the populations of Turkey, were they also guilty of bombing Muslims? Jordan, Soodi Arabia, Morroco?

I havent yet started with Pakistan where Musharraf has had two attempts which are publicly known and then shortcut aziz who survived one. Now both tof these gentleman are guilty of bombing muslim populations?

Muslim or amerikee extremist both share one thing in common and that is their narrow tunnel vision of life. Palestinian, Kashmiri, Iraqi sufferings are niether new or isolated. Ask South American populations how they have suffered, but did they ever resort to suicide bombings? What about the East European populations, did they not suffer during the war against communism, why did they not use terror tactics? Japs were nuked, so why havent they produced a revenge seeking hiroshima-osama?

World has yet to forgive US for useing nukes against the Japs even though they were in a state of war of gargantuan proportions both sides losing millions. Why sud the civilized world rationalize or justify `deliberate` terror attacks on civilians?

#184/5 by haider5

I want to ask why muslims carry suicide attacks and the attacks like 9/11 on western powers?

I`m not sure whether 9/11 was carried out by Muslims; but even if it had been, their answer would be :If you kill our women and children, we will kill your women and children.

That ``If`` is the distinction.

If Japanese had nukes, they would justifiably have nuked Los Ageles in response to Hiroshima.

And don`t tell me killing women and children by crashing planes into building is not OK but killing women and children by joystick-bombs at 30,000 feet is fine. If it isn`t, please provide the `terrorists` some joy-sticks too so that their `Jihad` is not so messy but squeaky clean as a new F-16.

Having said the above, killing of innocent civilians, whoever they may be, cannot be condoned.

But anyway, your position is not new. Several posters here share your view which I and some others call Liberaloons/Moderatoons. This has also been discussed threadbare. Please state something which is original so we can continue.

zeemax

dont say its an old question and no need to answer it ect. please give me your own original opinion about this.

i will be thankfull.

haider

zeemax

i want to ask why muslims carry suicide attacks and the attacks like 9/11 on western powers?

please give me the answer
hope you will.

thnaks
haider

Zeemanx

Be careful..............your cyber Jehad is ruining your personal life!!

wanted jewish terrorists