Infallibility No guard Against Stupidity

Just curious ... was Jesus the messenger or Mary Magdelene the messenger who was the only one to see the resurrection? Just curious ...

read ``compare God directly`` as ``claim God directly``

PM writes <<< So let`s jsut say that I will accept your interpretation of Rasool, and be left with the rather odd implication that Allah is literally given to redunancy. You DO know, that you cannot escape this conclusion, don`t you? >>>

Simply repeating nonsense does not make it true. There is absolutely no redundancy, you cannot claim to obey Allah and reject the messenger because Allah is speaking through the messenger, which makes obeying the messenger (rasool) not a redundancy but a necessity, the mischief caused otherwise is clearly evident in Christianity where all kinds of damn fools compare God directly talks to them and they all are going in different directions but all headed towards heaven. Don`t waste my time with repeating nonsense if you cannot comprehend simple words that carry meanings.

masadi: re. 255
`` PM, don`t try to multiply your absurdities when I have clearly quoted the Arabic of the verse for you, which is repeated not once but multiple times in the Quran, ``maa aler rasoole ILLA balagh``, (24:54- 29:18- 54:12 etc.) i.e. there is NOTHING for the messenger Except plain conveyance. Not to mention several verses that explicitly state that he only conveys what is revealed to him, the message being the Quran and that he cannot invent things on his own based on desire.``

So now you`re saying that it is, in fact, the Messenger who is referred to in the verse ``Obey Allah and the Messenger`` -- as opposed to the ``verbatim reproduction of`` [all that you mentioned ealier.]
Of course, you do say that the Quran clearly says that there is nothig for the Messenger to convey except the message, and that he cannot invent things based on his own desire. And of course that`s not possible, since the Quran was audited before final compilation.

I won`t even begin to ask you how it is you believe that the Messenger only ever uttered the Message, and nothing extra-Quranic that could be followed by anyone, because that would be another exercise in spin for you.

So let`s jsut say that I will accept your interpretation of Rasool, and be left with the rather odd implication that Allah is literally given to redunancy. You DO know, that you cannot escape this conclusion, don`t you?

Re: # 264
Masadus Complexii Psued Scholarii,

once again, you have given way to hyperbole and to that funny bone in you. If you stopped hyperventillating for once and thought it through your arguments would have been marshalled better. for example here is what me and catchy said elsewhere on the same topic

#16 by strongman_dick on September 24, 2006 3:36am PT
#15 you are on the mark catchy

Its a process of evolution. One group leads others follow. another overtakes so and so forth.

Fortunately an under read person like you and me have these thoughts. But the literate amongst us like zeepussy, oops sorry zeemax, could not think it through and see through the red mist. A Dirty mind blots the thinking

Thank you for pointing this out. I hope zeemax understands this
user posts | profile


#15 by catchy on September 24, 2006 3:26am PT


yes, Muslims need to do more research and write more books, but the question what Muslims have contributed needs the questioners to read some books.

The whole MAN civilization is in a process of evolution. Muslims were dominating on a certian part of its TIME LINE and lost their leading role of guiding people and serving humanity for known reasons. But the process never stops and some other Nation/s is/are always there to play the leading role/s.

Quran also mentions this;

If you turn away, Allah will replace you by another people, and they will not be like you. (47:38)

S_d`s copy pasted article <<< Angry won`t do it. 9/11 won`t do it. 7/7 won`t do it. Library is the way. >>>

It seems that the author by the totally dimwit way in which he has written the article has got a lot of library visiting to do himself/herself. Another reason why Muslims are in the shape they are in today is because their educated follow the BS line the US feeds them, just like the BS it feeds its own poor, that they can achieve anything that their elite can achieve if they just work hard at cleaning the fryer or grill on which they flip their burgers 8 hours a day 5 days a week for decades and then have to visit loan sharks to make their rent or buy food for their kids. Keep up this BS only damn fools buy it.

#260 by masadi

[A classic example of a person who does not have a clue about facts and argumentation, look carefully at his conclusion, ``trust me``- that is the sum total of their ``reason``.]

No, actually if you had half a brain and/or any self-respect, you would not have said that that is my argument. That was my CONCLUSION.

MY ARGUMENT was that there is NOTHING in that badly done cut-and-paste job to indicate that it did not come out of the head of an uneducated and illiterate bedouin who was trying to hoodwink and control other idiots (including things like the sudden ``revelation`` in the Quran about how God wanted him to do the wild thing with his daughter-in-law. And in the nick of time, too! :) ).

the key question to MASADI and all what have the muslims contributed to the world.....

an answer from one perspective is given below - from the JANG

http://thenews.jang.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=25579



Angry



By Dr Farrukh Saleem





Muslims are angry with the Jews. We are angry with the Christians. Pakistani Muslims are angry with Jews, Christians and Hindus. People of the Book -- Jews, Christians and Muslims -- are all at war while China and India stride ahead.

We are angry so we turn their technology against them; use their planes to bring their high-rises down and use their cell phones to detonate bombs in their high speed trains (the first hand held mobile phone to become commercially available was the Motorola DynaTAC 8000X).

Can we win by downing their high-rises or by murdering commuters?

We were angry with the Danes so we boycott their butter and their cheese. By the same logic, if we are angry with the Jews shouldn`t we stop using vaccinating needles? Stop using polio drops; end all vaccinations for Hepatitis B, stop using kidney dialysis machines, stop treating leukaemia and stop treating syphilis? Should we even stop using computers because the first micro-processing chip was invented by a Jew (Pentium-4 microprocessor and Centrino processor were entirely designed, developed, and produced in Israel)? If we are angry with the Jews shouldn`t we return our nuclear chain reactors, all our optical fibre cables, traffic lights, videotape recorders and everything made of stainless steel? Stop wearing jeans, boycott Baskins & Robbins, Dunkin Donuts, Starbuck`s and Dell Computers? Stop using Google as well as Oracle? We are angry with the Jews, Christians and Hindus. Angry, however, isn`t taking us anywhere. Angry won`t ever get us anything.

Shouldn`t we be even angrier with ourselves? Look around, what has been the Muslim contribution to humanity over the past one thousand years? Look around, how many items of daily use in our lives are Muslim inventions? After all, there are 57 Muslim-majority member-states of the OIC. Can anyone name just one Muslim country responsible for a major technological, scientific or a medical breakthrough? Can anyone name an Arab country -- just one -- who`s intellectual output has enriched humanity?

True, Al-Khwarizmi, the `father of Algebra`, was a great mathematician, astrologer and astronomer. Al-Farghani had measured Earth`s diameter. Ibn Sina gave humanity `The Canon of Medicine`. Omar al-Khayyam discovered binominal expansion, measured the length of the year to within six decimal points (as 365.242195), mapped the stars in the sky and showed the world how to solve cubic equations (in 1970, a lunar crater was named after him and in 1980 an asteroid was named after him).

Al-Farghani died in 833; Al-Khwarizmi in 850, Ibn Sina in 1,037 and Omar al-Khayyam in 1,123. Question: What have Muslims contributed to the human civilisation over the past 833 years?

We are angry at America. But why is America the richest and the most powerful? Of America `s 298 million citizens 1.1 million qualify as `scientists`. Of the 1.3 billion Muslims less than 300,000 qualify as `scientists`. Among them, fifty-seven OIC countries have an average of ten universities each for a total of less than 600 universities for 1.3 billion Muslims. America has 5,758 universities. Of the 1.3 billion Muslims more than 800 million are absolutely illiterate.

Once again, angry won`t get us anything. Every Muslim wants the followers of Islam to become the dominant force. What then should be the winning strategy? History stands witness that when Muslims owned the largest library we overpowered Constantinople, Nimes (in France), North Africa, Cyprus, Sardinia, Sicily, Egypt, Jerusalem, Syria, Walachia (Romania), Serbia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Albania, Persia, Venice and Hungary.

Back then, Muslims weren`t angry they were busy building libraries, producing knowledge and consuming knowledge produced by others (and not boycotting). The Caliphs of Cordoba ruled Spain for 275 years. Arab occupation of Sicily lasted 264 years. Are we now angry at America because America has been occupying Iraq since 11:30 a.m. the 19th of March 2003?

The Library of Congress is now the largest library; one hundred and twenty-eight million items on 530 miles of bookshelves. The collections include more than 29 million books, 2.7 million recordings, 12 million photographs, 4.8 million maps, 5 million music items and 57 million manuscripts. The Library of Congress receives some 22,000 items each working day and adds approximately 10,000 items to the collections daily.

Angry won`t do it. 9/11 won`t do it. 7/7 won`t do it. Library is the way.