Atif September 21, 2006
#68 Posted by MantoLives on October 2, 2006 10:43:02 pm
Vis a vis discussion regarding ``artificiality`` in UAE
I think Dubai is an excellent place... its just that we have a problem with an inherent guilt about being successful... and we try and couch that in other terms. Somehow in architecture ....Guggenheim would always be the choice of the ``classy intellectual`` and Burj-ul-Arab the symbol of decadence for this mentality. Well I reject this mentality in entirety. It is a mentality that has adopted in toto the worst elements of the Western Orientalist vis a vis the east.... in other words... to these people New York City is beautiful and real because of its sky scrapers but Dubai is artificial for the same reason.
Precisely my problem with the arguments people are coming up with against the Centaurus Project in Islamabad.
On culture.. culture is what people make of it. Nothing more... nothing less.
I think Dubai is an excellent place... its just that we have a problem with an inherent guilt about being successful... and we try and couch that in other terms. Somehow in architecture ....Guggenheim would always be the choice of the ``classy intellectual`` and Burj-ul-Arab the symbol of decadence for this mentality. Well I reject this mentality in entirety. It is a mentality that has adopted in toto the worst elements of the Western Orientalist vis a vis the east.... in other words... to these people New York City is beautiful and real because of its sky scrapers but Dubai is artificial for the same reason.
Precisely my problem with the arguments people are coming up with against the Centaurus Project in Islamabad.
On culture.. culture is what people make of it. Nothing more... nothing less.
#67 Posted by atif2 on September 26, 2006 3:08:13 pm
#66 - Zahra - elders carry guns and daggers as part of their culture. I did not see much of that in Muscat, which is quite a modern city. However, in other smaller cities and rural areas, it was quite a common sight. I think they are just a male ornament, like you would see pathans carrying guns in tribal areas in Pakistan. In all of King Qaboos`s pictures that I saw hanging from the walls of shops and restaurants, he was shown wearing the dagger - which is also a national symbol.
Not all bedouin women wear the mask. Only the married ones do. Unmarried girls just cover their heads.
Not all bedouin women wear the mask. Only the married ones do. Unmarried girls just cover their heads.
#66 Posted by ZahraJ on September 26, 2006 2:34:02 pm
Atif -
The pictures are nice. I liked the color of sand. It looked very pretty. Why do the elders have guns and daggers with them? What are they up to? Do all bedouin women wear that strange looking mask? That`s very strange.
The pictures are nice. I liked the color of sand. It looked very pretty. Why do the elders have guns and daggers with them? What are they up to? Do all bedouin women wear that strange looking mask? That`s very strange.
#65 Posted by atif2 on September 26, 2006 2:02:10 pm
for those interested in viewing some pictures of my travel to oman, please see them on unplugged...
zahra - thank you for your kind words
salim - homosexuality say aagay jahaN aur bhee haiN...u sound fascinated by beastiality. please see the camel pictures i posted for you on unplugged. thanks!
thanks everyone for your comments!
zahra - thank you for your kind words
salim - homosexuality say aagay jahaN aur bhee haiN...u sound fascinated by beastiality. please see the camel pictures i posted for you on unplugged. thanks!
thanks everyone for your comments!
#64 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on September 26, 2006 10:45:37 am
results of running a background check on atif2
NAME: Atif2
ALIAS: Atif1, Atif, Dr. Israr_Ahmad
DATE OF BIRTH: Delayed by paternity litigation. Will be discolsed as soon as paternity is determined.
CRIMINAL CHARGES: Infestation of sand in rectum - leading to charges of silicone-enhanced asshole. Sodomizing of camels in Abba Dabba Doobuy. Unrestrained debauchery with male bedouins under the stars.
CONVICTION: Hiding behind same sex marriage leniency in Boston, MA
DATE OF CONVICTION: September 11, 2006
PLACE OF CONVICTION: Abba Dabba Doobuy
SENTENCE: 1000 hours of hard camel thrusts or being raped in public by a regiment of Sipah-e-Miquadi – whichever comes first
NAME: Atif2
ALIAS: Atif1, Atif, Dr. Israr_Ahmad
DATE OF BIRTH: Delayed by paternity litigation. Will be discolsed as soon as paternity is determined.
CRIMINAL CHARGES: Infestation of sand in rectum - leading to charges of silicone-enhanced asshole. Sodomizing of camels in Abba Dabba Doobuy. Unrestrained debauchery with male bedouins under the stars.
CONVICTION: Hiding behind same sex marriage leniency in Boston, MA
DATE OF CONVICTION: September 11, 2006
PLACE OF CONVICTION: Abba Dabba Doobuy
SENTENCE: 1000 hours of hard camel thrusts or being raped in public by a regiment of Sipah-e-Miquadi – whichever comes first
#63 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on September 26, 2006 9:25:16 am
Mantolives {``Now spare me oh great MMA (as in MAD MULLAH ATIF) your antics, lies and jokes... to me you are a worthless scumbag ``}
Manto Bhai
Your brief absence from Chowk has not diluted your sense of logic, humor, wit, and sharp counter attack.
I loved the MMA nomenclature. Next, you will probably refer to his cranial cavity as the ``Empty Quarter`` - something that he is describing in this ode to camel jockeys. :)
Manto Bhai
Your brief absence from Chowk has not diluted your sense of logic, humor, wit, and sharp counter attack.
I loved the MMA nomenclature. Next, you will probably refer to his cranial cavity as the ``Empty Quarter`` - something that he is describing in this ode to camel jockeys. :)
#62 Posted by ZahraJ on September 25, 2006 7:00:15 pm
Dear Atif -
[This was a startling revelation for a man like me who has a (very) soft corner for fairer sex. ]
It`s not necessary to spell out the obvious. I am glad that you took it off your chest :)
Thank you for providing an interesting read on Chowk after a long time. I like to read your stories. They are sweet, absorbing, youthful, and lively. They exude passion and lust for life and its flow. I look forward to reading more stuff........ I do suggest that you add a little bit of dialogue in your stories to add to the flavor.
Best Wishes,
Z
[This was a startling revelation for a man like me who has a (very) soft corner for fairer sex. ]
It`s not necessary to spell out the obvious. I am glad that you took it off your chest :)
Thank you for providing an interesting read on Chowk after a long time. I like to read your stories. They are sweet, absorbing, youthful, and lively. They exude passion and lust for life and its flow. I look forward to reading more stuff........ I do suggest that you add a little bit of dialogue in your stories to add to the flavor.
Best Wishes,
Z
#61 Posted by atif2 on September 25, 2006 2:20:08 pm
ZahraJ # 59 - ``I landed with an open mind, but I found my surroundings to be very fake. Even the magnificent structures had something missing. Somehow, I cannot exactly point it out.``
I share your sentiments about the magnificent structures in Dubai missing ``something``. And that ``something`` is people :) It is true, there are hundreds of new condo towers that have gone up in the last 2 years or are under construction. But it seems that most of them have been either bought by the investors who live abroad, or they are bought by institutional buyers who later sell it to individual customers who mostly live abroad. So it is surprising when you go to places like Dubai Marina and dont see many people. As for your comment that surroundings in Dubai are ``fake``, I would suggest the word ``hyped``.
However, let me mention what I often heard expats in Dubai saying: There is NO culture in Dubai. It is really just a conglomeration of people coming together because of the open business environment, good (tax free) salaries and the construction boom. I strongly believe that for a ``culture`` to take root, you at least need to have presence of women. It turns out that women make only 27% of the population of Dubai! This was a startling revelation for a man like me who has a (very) soft corner for fairer sex.
However, my travelogue was not about UAE, it was about Oman. A very different culture and a very interesting culture. Omani seafarers were quite successful in establishing distant colonies to the point that Zanzibar in Africa served as their capital for some time. Gawadaer in Pakistan`s Baluchistan was their possession too. So I request that you PLEASE not lump Oman with UAE.
I share your sentiments about the magnificent structures in Dubai missing ``something``. And that ``something`` is people :) It is true, there are hundreds of new condo towers that have gone up in the last 2 years or are under construction. But it seems that most of them have been either bought by the investors who live abroad, or they are bought by institutional buyers who later sell it to individual customers who mostly live abroad. So it is surprising when you go to places like Dubai Marina and dont see many people. As for your comment that surroundings in Dubai are ``fake``, I would suggest the word ``hyped``.
However, let me mention what I often heard expats in Dubai saying: There is NO culture in Dubai. It is really just a conglomeration of people coming together because of the open business environment, good (tax free) salaries and the construction boom. I strongly believe that for a ``culture`` to take root, you at least need to have presence of women. It turns out that women make only 27% of the population of Dubai! This was a startling revelation for a man like me who has a (very) soft corner for fairer sex.
However, my travelogue was not about UAE, it was about Oman. A very different culture and a very interesting culture. Omani seafarers were quite successful in establishing distant colonies to the point that Zanzibar in Africa served as their capital for some time. Gawadaer in Pakistan`s Baluchistan was their possession too. So I request that you PLEASE not lump Oman with UAE.
#60 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on September 25, 2006 10:02:42 am
There is more to being ``uninhibited`` than merely demanding tampon vending machines and advertising hymenoplastie. Being uninhibited is not the domain of western society, much less of western females. In the 19th century, the Victorian females in the American west or those traveling all the way to colonial Inja were anything but ``uninhibited.`` Compared to these pretentious and self-righteous women, the Indian squaws and desi nautch girls were the really uninhibited ones. Speaking one`s mind freely and not being afraid of new ideas, cultures, or concepts are also important elements of being uninhibited.
#59 Posted by ZahraJ on September 25, 2006 7:53:21 am
Atif -
Yes, I have. And I truly disliked it. I landed with an open mind, but I found my surroundings to be very fake. Even the magnificent structures had something missing. Somehow, I cannot exactly point it out. I could not stand the shopping centers, abayas left, right and center and noise. There was no sense of peace in that environment. Fortuntalely or unfortunately, that`s something I only find in the west. Despite all the storms and hurricanes, nature is still very kind to this part of the world. I am a nature lover and am always pulled in that direction with the change of seasons. I think you are preaching to the choir in #58, but that`s fine. After all, you have to argue to prove that you are a true *disciple* of Mr. Coelho :)
Take Care
Note - A travelogue is a travelogue; the location is irrelevant. Each journey or experience has its own charm. Let`s go back to contemplating on the moment when Safeena(with pretty kohl in her eyes) was serving you dinner..... the rude awakening........and then back to reality...................
An observation - On reading write-ups by educated desi men who are kind of exposed to the western society and its ins-and-outs, I find the fascination with ``uninhibited`` women quite amusing. This has been brought up a number of times on Chowk. There is something strange here. It seems the writers are not at the same place both mentally and physically.
Yes, I have. And I truly disliked it. I landed with an open mind, but I found my surroundings to be very fake. Even the magnificent structures had something missing. Somehow, I cannot exactly point it out. I could not stand the shopping centers, abayas left, right and center and noise. There was no sense of peace in that environment. Fortuntalely or unfortunately, that`s something I only find in the west. Despite all the storms and hurricanes, nature is still very kind to this part of the world. I am a nature lover and am always pulled in that direction with the change of seasons. I think you are preaching to the choir in #58, but that`s fine. After all, you have to argue to prove that you are a true *disciple* of Mr. Coelho :)
Take Care
Note - A travelogue is a travelogue; the location is irrelevant. Each journey or experience has its own charm. Let`s go back to contemplating on the moment when Safeena(with pretty kohl in her eyes) was serving you dinner..... the rude awakening........and then back to reality...................
An observation - On reading write-ups by educated desi men who are kind of exposed to the western society and its ins-and-outs, I find the fascination with ``uninhibited`` women quite amusing. This has been brought up a number of times on Chowk. There is something strange here. It seems the writers are not at the same place both mentally and physically.
#58 Posted by atif2 on September 25, 2006 5:05:28 am
#55 ZahraJ #55 ``I do not like to visit or land at a place where I have nothing to relate to....Going back to your write-up, I simply dislike the mindset of the area addressed. I guess when I said the area, I implied the UAE mindset and mentality...On my end, I have simply no desire to visit any Muslim Country except for Morocco and Egypt.``
I am a little curious as to know what you mean by ``UAE mindset``. Have you visited UAE? The impression I got from my recent visit was that its mindset is nearly approaching that of Americans – consumerism.
As for your dislike to visit a place where you have nothing to relate to, well, it kind of reminds me of an interview of Bill Gates a while back. Interviewer asked him what he liked to read in his spare time. Frankly, I was expecting him to say that he read about new trends in technology and the competitive landscape. Gates responded that he liked to read on the topics unrelated to his profession and interests, such as arts, music, astronomy – things he did not relate to in his daily life. I guess he did so because he wanted to learn something he did not know :)
So my point is that there are several reasons why a person should not visit a place. But having ``nothing to relate to`` is somewhat of an unwise reason :)
I am a little curious as to know what you mean by ``UAE mindset``. Have you visited UAE? The impression I got from my recent visit was that its mindset is nearly approaching that of Americans – consumerism.
As for your dislike to visit a place where you have nothing to relate to, well, it kind of reminds me of an interview of Bill Gates a while back. Interviewer asked him what he liked to read in his spare time. Frankly, I was expecting him to say that he read about new trends in technology and the competitive landscape. Gates responded that he liked to read on the topics unrelated to his profession and interests, such as arts, music, astronomy – things he did not relate to in his daily life. I guess he did so because he wanted to learn something he did not know :)
So my point is that there are several reasons why a person should not visit a place. But having ``nothing to relate to`` is somewhat of an unwise reason :)
#57 Posted by strongman_dick on September 25, 2006 3:36:26 am
atif a well written piece. Somehow, I have my doubts about parts of it - like the camel being the plane of the desert. Maybe if you suggested it was the rocket of the dessert!
Other parts, the dubious ones. Well I leave it for now, since what you wrote is good and donot want to spoil the mood. But I mean, safeena this and Safeena that.
Other parts, the dubious ones. Well I leave it for now, since what you wrote is good and donot want to spoil the mood. But I mean, safeena this and Safeena that.
#56 Posted by anil on September 24, 2006 9:47:23 pm
Zahra:
I had the most wonderful time in Ketchikan, Alsaka, early August working on a business project with an exclusive native alaskan art gallery. Some of the misty fjords and peacefull glaciers are sight to see. I too would go back there.
The most interesting thing was that this little town of 2,000 people will swell up in population to 12,000 with the arrival of five cruise ships each day on 6 to 12 stops. As soon as the cruise ships left, once could see the beauty of nature taking over from man to bring back serenity.
Anil
I had the most wonderful time in Ketchikan, Alsaka, early August working on a business project with an exclusive native alaskan art gallery. Some of the misty fjords and peacefull glaciers are sight to see. I too would go back there.
The most interesting thing was that this little town of 2,000 people will swell up in population to 12,000 with the arrival of five cruise ships each day on 6 to 12 stops. As soon as the cruise ships left, once could see the beauty of nature taking over from man to bring back serenity.
Anil
#55 Posted by ZahraJ on September 24, 2006 6:05:00 pm
Re: # 49
Atif: I do not think you *completely* know what I mean :) But I do agree with your take on what`s exotic vs. what`s not. That`s very personal. To me Alaska was the most exotic and unusual place I have ever come across in my life so far. That`s where I will go back for further exploration. I do not like to visit or land at a place where I have nothing to relate to. As we grow older, our perspectives and views evolve depending on our own initiative, exposure and surroundings.
Going back to your write-up, I simply dislike the mindset of the area addressed. I guess when I said the area, I implied the UAE mindset and mentality. I did not necessarily imply the bedouin culture (a subset). I was looking at the umbrella picture. On my end, I have simply no desire to visit any Muslim Country except for Morocco and Egypt.
Atif: I do not think you *completely* know what I mean :) But I do agree with your take on what`s exotic vs. what`s not. That`s very personal. To me Alaska was the most exotic and unusual place I have ever come across in my life so far. That`s where I will go back for further exploration. I do not like to visit or land at a place where I have nothing to relate to. As we grow older, our perspectives and views evolve depending on our own initiative, exposure and surroundings.
Going back to your write-up, I simply dislike the mindset of the area addressed. I guess when I said the area, I implied the UAE mindset and mentality. I did not necessarily imply the bedouin culture (a subset). I was looking at the umbrella picture. On my end, I have simply no desire to visit any Muslim Country except for Morocco and Egypt.
#54 Posted by aimie on September 24, 2006 1:26:51 pm
#53, i`m not feeling guilty of anything! i`m giving you an apt reason for not able to comment on a well written peice of work!
#53 Posted by shobig_sifar on September 24, 2006 12:41:35 pm
Re: # 50 `chor ki daRhi meiN tinka` *rolls eyes*
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