Musharraf Spilling the Beans—Why Now?

Mr Ghori,

I guess the answer to your byline is becoming clearer day by day. Today it is $80 million per month. I guess for $80 million a month, Mush would be willing to crawl on all fours.

Re:hamidm2#166

[........the chinese and the indians - smart folks (inspite of the few macaca specimens on chowk) - have jumped on the speeding bandwagon of civilization, while ummite simpletons stand in the dust, wringing their hands over the evils of colonialism ...............]

The Chinese never had any colonialism. Neither did the Japs. They havent turned out to be braindead like the Taliban. Same goes for the Turks, who were once called the sick man of Europe.

The muslim world has an excellent example to follow in Turkey. Imagine if Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan all followed Turkey`s example and established similar systems. Where would the ummah be today?

Dinesh D`Souza`s thesis is highly flawed since it assumes that non goras can never choose to do the right thing on their own unless they are somehow coerced by the goras. What utter rubish!! All it needs are a few good leaders who have the foresight to understand how the wolrd is changing and take everyone along with them in the right direction of science, democracy and capitalism. People like Mustapha Kemal Ataturk in Turkey, Nehru/Manmohan Singh in India, the commies in china (as compared to the dumb commies in russia) etc.

Ref hamidm2 #161

[aslam mian,

............ you are right - the incorrigible pathans still live in the stone ages because they did not benefit from the civilizing effect of colonialism (like we did) ............two cheers for colonialism ! ...... you will like this:

TWO CHEERS FOR COLONIALISM]

Dinesh D`Souza forgets the fact that along with other civilizing influences, the colonizers also gave him his last name and his religion.

One wonders under what circumstances!

Re: # 177

harimau and ranjit,

...... you two prove my point about macacas ! ........... we pakis suffer from a double whammy - macaca genes combined with islamic indoctrination - no wonder we are so screwed up !

and i am not assuming that ``non goras can never choose to do the right thing on their own unless they are somehow coerced by the goras`` - i have proof ........ what about all those people squatting on the railroad tracks ? ........ if the gora sahib had hung around for another fifty years he would have coerced them to take their business indoors !..........

but please do not despair - in the long run, evolutionary biology will even things out

Re: # 163 by masadi on September 28, 2006 11:23am PT

Dear masadi:

You are a muslim believer, are you not? How can you be rational?

{It is clear from your response that sloganeering is the last straw that you and your friend PM hold on to, as far as rational argumentation goes you can`t hold a candle to my post. }

You have no business in calling yourself as someone who is reasonable, because you have no value of human reasoning.

Respectfully submitted,

Re: # 179 by hamidm2 on September 28, 2006 6:05pm PT

Hamidm2,

{but please do not despair - in the long run, evolutionary biology will even things out}

Are you suggesting that Indians would revert back to becoming monkeys?

Respectfully submitted,

behram: I think masadi, like a lot of our muslim brothers, needs an Exorcism. Not reasoning.

#181 go back far enough (say about 20 million years), and monkeys were an evolutionary leap from where our ancestors were. i am talking walking on four legs. with tails.

zeemax #120

`` 2) Re Turkey, I still haven`t seen a single good reason how Turkey could say NO while Pak couldn`t. One post tries to argue that Turkey`s refusal was not critical to US success but Pak`s airspace was critical. That`s a load of crap. Pak had allowed use of its airspace to Clinton`s cruise missiles in 1998 and would have done the same this time as well. Sharing of intelligence etc also was no big deal. The only extra thing that Pak did was to provide logistical support on its territory i.e. bases in Jacobabad etc. and this extra thing was hardly `critical` to US success for which Pak would have been invaded by US. ``

US has the option to attack Iraq from Kuwait. To access Afghanistan from the ocean means crossing Iranian or Pakistani airspace.

It is one thing to fire 20 cruise missiles which would not have been detected by Pakistani radars before it is too late. It is another thing to launch few thousand bombing sorties.

`` The demand on Turkey, however, was not to open a second front (because none was needed as Kurds were not going to fight US) but rather for logistical reasons. Turkey`s refusal forced US to truck supplies through not only hostile enemy territory but over an extremely harsh desert all the way from Kuwait, resulting in plenty of hardship for them as well as significantly more casualties. If there was any reason for US to bomb either Pak or Turkey, it was Turkey which provided a better reason. But US backed off. ``

USA has 150,000 troops in Iraq. The supply lines through Southern Iraq have been quiet. Shias have been co-operative.

`` 3) Sadna has an excellent point in saying ``Musharraf`s tour in the US virtually announces his second U-turn wrt the Taliban.``. This is a rare occasion when her perception is correct. As bbabu made the dumb statement ``The problem is that you will have a hard time defining ``our best interests``, he should find the answer in Sadna`s discovery.

Pakistan`s `best` interest lies in Taliban control of Afghanistan, and Musharraf has now realized that contrary to all efforts, Taliban will retake Kabul the moment foreign forces leave. Therefore Musharraf is getting on the right side of Taliban once again. BTW, a tribal sardar of N. Waziristan has stated that the recent agreement was cleared by no other than Mulla Omar himself. So a lot of posters here do not know their ass from their elbow! ``

If Taliban control over Afghanistan is in best interest of Pakistan I have a better suggestion how about Taliban control of Pakistan.

What is good for the goose is good for the gander !!!

echoboom #162

please live in the past

The same British military uses aircraft in 1919 to defeat the Afghan King.

US military uses a fourth rate army in the Northern Alliance to seize Afghanistan

``But the piece de resistance in the book is what led to Pakistan jettisoning its Taliban protégés and donning the mantle of a partisan in Bush’s crusade against terror.``

The trouble is we are judging Mush as a political leader when actually he is a concieted `Matarrua-in-uniform`, a mantle of which one should be ashamed of after 1971 and the Kargil debacle. He shudders at the slightest opposition by the Mullah but is ruthless against the liberals. He miserably failed even to tame the Holy Loudspeaker (PBUH). One can hear the den they are making these days even in the Capital, Islamabad.

i have got to hand it to the afghans........taliban, hazaras, pathans, farsi-speakers, and whomever else..........they may not know how to use the toilet, and they may be the most backwards people in the world.........and they have probably done more harm to pakistan than good...........

but these guys sure can fight.........

how in the world does a rag-tag group of people stop every invading superpower in the world........back in the good old days, when they had the better toilets and hygiene skills, these guys desended into india and conquered everything left and right......they kicked the crap out of all us punjabi-speakers to the point that it wasn`t funny....the only guy who took on the foreign mughals and kicked their ass was sher shah suri....good old farid khan the pathan.........born in multan, but still a pathan (it ryhmes).........do keep in mind that the mughals kicked the asses of all the remaining india (and pakistan)........including all of us who now look down on the toilets of the afghans.......

then the next superpower british came in..........they kicked punjabi butt, big time........and they kicked everyone else`s butt in india also.....tamil butt, up butt, bengali butt, sindhi butt, marathi butt, madrasi butt, etc............but could even they kick afghani butt.......nope..........afghans kicked their butt.........

then the next superpower came in.....ussr.........they had kicked german butt, polish butt, czech butt, slovekian butt.......estonian butt, hungarian butt, romanian butt and even (by proxy) american butt.........could they kick afghani butt........nope........afghanis kicked soviet butt...........amazing.........they saved pakistan`s butt, as the acted as the in-between........so much so that they initiated the fall of the soviet union........thereby freeing up estonians to write skype.......east german women to become chancellors of west germany........polish labor leaders to become god-like figures and american movie actor presidents to get re-elected...........

then the next superpower tried their hands on afghans.........the usa in the gwot.......usa had kicked grenedian butt, nicaraguan butt, panamanian butt, serbian butt, etc........has the usa been able to kick afghani butt...........in the short term, yes........however, now the afghanis are kicking butt right back..........and my odds are on the afghans to win this one also..........

in the meanwhile, pakistanis decided to take on afghanis in the tribal areas........pakistan threw everything including the kitchen sink at them........80,000 soldiers, cobra helicopters, fighter airplanes, you name it..........did pakistan kick afghani butt.........nope..........pakistan has been forced to sign a truce...........

so, there is something to be said about fighting back..............granted afghanistan will never have the beaches of lebanon with its bikini clad girls, or the armani dressed ministers of lebanon, with their perfect french accents..........but when push came to shove, these lebanese (not counting hezbollah) ran away with tears in their eyes and got their butts kicked.........something no one can say about afghanistan..........

so in this big bad world, there will always be someone who does not know how to use the toilet, because his ancestors have always been too busy fighting invaders to learn personal hygiene..........however, it is because of these afghanis - who may still be wiping their butts on grass - that today, east european, pakistanis and georgians and kazakhastanis and even the russians have some freedom.............

i would never move to afghanistan, and i think pakistan should build a fence on the afghan border and not allow anything, other than pomegranates and melons to enter..........however, i have to say, i do admire the bravery and uprightness of someone who isn`t scared to fight and brings some form of humility to the might of runaway superpowers (be they russian, british, or american)............

Re: # 187

romair mian,

..... so you think that the afghans have done better than the japanese and the germans who chose to lay down their arms instead of sniping away at american soldiers for the next ten years ? ........... like all other muslims who love death more than most other people love life, your admiration for the afghans is understandable ............ i, for one, do not see any honor in living in caves like animals .........

Re: # 166

Hamidm sahib:

You think and write profound. The change you are talking about is happening at a speed faster than and in the opposite direction (future), than Massadi Mian can see. He and his ilk are so glued toward the past (viewed as fundamentalism) that when they turn their head to toward the other direction, the change has already gone by and cannot be seen.

The change you point is inevitable, the good thing is that it will happen in the Islamic world also. Massadi Mians of the Islamic world notwithstanding. My suggestion you should mentor and guide people like Yasser and his wife Aisha in Pakistan. Like it or not, I am impressed by Musharaff. He now has been groomed and marketed quite well. American media is marketing him well. How many could have answered to Jon Stewart that both Bush and Ladin will loose in Pakistan. The man knows his answers.

Anil

Ref behram1 #181

[Hamidm2,

{but please do not despair - in the long run, evolutionary biology will even things out}

Are you suggesting that Indians would revert back to becoming monkeys?]

I am guessing here but maybe Hamidm2 is hoping, like me, that the squatters will be taken out of the gene pool by the trains. That would be evolutionary biology in action.

Ref bulleya #187

You forget that Ranjit Singh effectively kept the Pathans under check.

His remedy was simple and straightforward: any Pathan caught in his kingdom was killed. If he was caught near Peshawar, then his head was displayed on the ramparts of the fort for all to see.