Musharraf Spilling the Beans—Why Now?

okhla writes in #171 <<< I can understand your reluctance to read prominent newspapers and watch international TV, no matter how widely acceptable the rest of the world find them. You wish to ignore mainstream media completely. >>>

You don`t understand anything, there is a world outside of the web, it is called the world of books and papers written by `real` researchers not celebrities pretending to be `journalists` on FOX news. I do listen to and read the mainstream media as well but I don`t abandon my thinking skills and you can easily cut through that bs. Unlike you I am not a cheerleader for tyrants and the `sources` of any and every `terrorism` that exists in Pakistan, the Pakistan military and its tugging of the US line. By the way Pakistan has a lot more bigger problems than a bunch of these a-holes running around shooting stuff. Millions die during the first year of life due to very high infant mortality, tens of millions don`t have clean water to drink or food to eat, life expectancy is low. These are the REAL problems unlike the bs that you, musharraf, the beyghairat, and the US A-holes are keeping Pakistanis busy with. I answered all your questions in the previous post, you just don`t have brains enough to understand it, so keep buzzing to what Fox News feeds you.

hamidm.......``like all other muslims who love death more than most other people love life, your admiration for the afghans is understandable ............ i, for one, do not see any honor in living in caves like animals .........``

hmm........why do you bring religion into everything........i never used the word muslim/islam or even the word, ``religion,`` itself..........yet you saw it somewhere...........i would like to encourage you to not be so obsessed with religion...........try to let go of it..........and not assume that everyone has some religious motivation behind their comment.........

also, chill out a bit.......you are far too angry for your own good at muslims.......at one time you were angry at religion, as a whole..........now your anger at christian right has mellowed........do keep in mind that between the two of us, i am the one who opposes the religious right both in pakistan or in usa (or in india, for that matter)........you support them in the usa........so take it easy.........

there is no honor in living amongst cave like animals.........no one stated that..........there is however a lot of honor in fighting invaders and not getting pushed around by the superpower of the day..........i wish more countries would do it..........the world would be a better place, since superpowers of the day are always the biggest killers of the day, also.......it is a historical fact.........

japanese and germans did not lay down arms.........they got the crap kicked out of them........in their case, however, they were the original aggressors..........in the case of afghans, they have been bombed to bits, directly and indirectly, by russians, americans, pakistanis, iranis, indians, arabs and god knows who else.........everyone has installed messed up leaderships on top of them like the taliban and misguided commies, not to mention the latest group of northern alliance bozos led by karzai that have been planted upon them by the usa............

so they do have some reason to be angry at everyone........and not trusting anyone........i think there are three groups that need to have a change of mind on this site:

- muslims thinking they are always correct, and everyone is out to get the muslims
- indians thinking india is always correct, and everyone is out to get the india
- you thinking that usa is always correct, and everyone is out to get the usa

the solution to the world`s problem`s is not to for everyone to lay down their arms to the usa.........a better solution is for the usa to stop invading countries........food for thought.........

Re: # 133

Hamidm Sahib:

Thanks for Al-Tabari Book. I just ordered in on Amazon.Com.

Anil

Re: # 187

Well written.

Also, in a land where a child learns to use the knife and the gun before (if ever) learning to read and write, things are bound to be different.

For the better part of their History, the Afghans have been at war. Being at war is the state of equilibrium for them. Either they are fighting other countries. If not then there are wars between internal communities. If not then the various tribes are fighting each other. Within tribes, the clans are at each other`s throat. Even within clans families or sub-clans are deadly enemies to each other. Lastly it is brother vs brother if no one else is available to fight/kill.

This has been Afghanistan for centuries now. Does not look like it will change very soon..


However, may I draw your kind attention to the simple limiting logic of #188.

anil...........``Like it or not, I am impressed by Musharaff. He now has been groomed and marketed quite well. American media is marketing him well. How many could have answered to Jon Stewart that both Bush and Ladin will loose in Pakistan. The man knows his answers.``

you are correct........musharraf has marketed himself superbly in usa.......he is perhaps the only asian leader who has been able to make into the american living room......perhaps one of the only few in the world........

his problem will be that he is not the president of usa..........he is the president of pakistan......has he been able to market himself in pakistan...........i think he did for three years.........since then his graph has gone down..........the only thing holding him up now is a growing economy and the fact that people are fed up with bb and ns.........

hamidm writes in #133 <<< ....... actually that was the message from khalid-bin-walid, one of mo`s closest buddies (sahabi) and a great muslim warrior.. i simply wanted to point out to the likes of zeemax and that mad mullah masadi that the shoe hurts when it is on the other foot >>>

Khalid bin walid or what he said or did not say has absolutely no connection to Islam. He was neither God nor the messenger of God. Let me scan through the private lives of your best friends and then hold you responsible for what they said on some occassion. By the way Tabari`s history is the most dated of the major histories and dates from over 250 years after the prophet, so instead of pretending to be some kind of expert on Islamic sources, and you are well aware from my several posts over the last year that I take only the Quran as the source of Islam. Therefore, I suggest you take your half-baked knowledge and titles like mad mullah and shove them now that you`ve made that person with the macaca mentality, anil waste his money on a book just that he could find dirt in it on Islam, when it has nothing whatsoever to do with Islam. These a-holes are pathetic poster children for illogical thinking and they will argue with you 24/7 to ``prove`` that Ad hominem proves something. Yes it does, it proves that the person so using that argumentation technique is a damn fool and we have them a plenty on Chowk.

people need to get out of this obsession with the usa, russia or with taliban or with northern alliance, in relation to afghanistan..........they should also get out of their obsession with pakistan, india and anyone else in this relation.........

all the above-mentioned entities have thoroughly screwed afghanis........when i say afghanis, i am talking about the average afghani on the street........anyone who thinks usa is the solution to afghanistan is as silly as anyone who thinks ussr was the solution........

afghanistan was the battleground where two elephants (usa and ussr) fought their war, at the expense of the afghanis.......after which, smaller powerful neighbors like pakistan, india and iran fought their battes there.........once again at the expense of the afghanis.....

do keep in mind that india supported the russian invasion that killed 1 out of every 17 afghanis.......pakistan supported taliban.........as for the usa........i was in the military when pakistan and usa were fighting the godless soviet empire together in afghanistan.........it will take me too long to describe the details of how the mujahideen were pushed into this war by the usa..........the same mujahideen (and their nephews) are now the targets of daisycutters...........

something doesn`t add up here, and doesn`t make sense to me......and perhaps not to the afghanis either............which maybe why they fight so much........afghanistan was a normal backwards third world country, before usa and ussr started using it as a boxing ring..........

Re: # 192

Once again Respected Masadi Sahib, hats off to you and your brilliant logic.

Now you are trying to tell us that Pakistan should not be pursuing the anti-terror agenda and should devote its attention to the Bijli-Paani problems.

In spite of so many sincere implorations, you just refuse to open your eyes and see that the world around you will not tolerate terrorism any more. You don`t read the right books because they do not support your point of view. You do not believe the mainstream media because it is all bullshy. Anybody who tries to reason with you becomes, in your august(and widely respected) opinion, a dimwit (you know how many people on this thread alone have you creditted with this adjective).

And so, the fountainhead of knowledge, in your opinion, Pakistan should immediately resume the support to terrorist groups and agencies. Like you say, anything else would be capitulation of ``national sovereignty:`` before the USA. It is the smart ones like you who are responsible for the country`s ills today. The Jaahiliyat does not lie within the illiterate (most of them are astoundingly intelligent).Jaahiliyat sometimes lies within those who read what they chose to read without any regard to the inherent merit of the contents. Most Chowk readers know of one or two minds where the Jaahiliyat lies.

The war on terror cannot be won till the minds are converted. I implore folks on Chowk to convert ZEEMAX, MASADI and a coupla other minds.


At the risk of being ignored once again, Respected Masadi Sahib

``OPEN YOUR EYES , Please open your eyes``

Respectfully submitted.

okhla99 writes <<< ......In spite of so many sincere implorations, you just refuse to open your eyes and see that the world around you will not tolerate terrorism any more. You don`t read the right books....And so, the fountainhead of knowledge, in your opinion, Pakistan should immediately resume the support to terrorist groups and agencies. Like you say, anything else would be capitulation of ``national sovereignty:`` before the USA >>>

Another pathetic attempt at a rebuttal where is only argument is `` you don`t read the right books``- as if that means anything. Just because I say that a nominally sovereign nation should not surrender itself, no questions asked, on a threat does not mean I support terrorism. A common tactic of the argumentation technique of the Fox News people, when you criticize the inhumanity of the Bush administration they rebut with ``you support the terrorists``. It is quite pathetic. Further like I said, America is not fighting terrorists, it is the worst terrorist state ever, itself, so if you want to oppose the terrorists, start with the US, let Pakistan breathe, fix its problems that are killing its people by the millions and the bs `machar-mosquito` like irritants the Al-Qaeda rag tags will get neutralized by the evolving structure. You want to maintain the ghetto and distract from the real problems so that an enviornment exists in which such things fluorish and then you, damn fool, have the audacity to say that I support doing nothing against terrorism. You don`t fool anyone, you ISI type illiterates singing the praises of Musharraf have the brains of a rat, the droppings of which you scatter all over Chowk when you are not busy torturing people.

read ``where is only argument`` as ``where his only argument`` in 200

#197 by masadi

“you`ve made that person with the macaca mentality, anil waste his money on a book”

HAHAHA! Well said masadi! I can’t believe that there are some idiots out there who would buy books on Hamid’s recommendation. He is a nice guy and a bit of comedian but buying books on his recommendation and praising his posts as the gospel shows really primitive or as you said macaca mentality.

I think you need to learn to ignore hamid too. He is not a serious political analyst. He just writes what he finds funny. I don’t know how much of is just pure fun or how much is leg pulling but whatever it is, just enjoy it an let macacas buy books on his recommendation….

I think Hamid you should now open a mail order business of your own. Macaca buying books from you directly….how abt starting a book club….Hamidm and chalees chor?

#138 by zeemacaca

Abey bongey ... looks like you missed that comment by Kaalchakra that Muslims are never concerned about `bread and butter` issues. That is the sole pursuit of macacas.

That explains why you sent your son to an Ivy League institution. You are not a Muslim (as per your favorite Kaalchakra`s definition), but actually a macaca? Holy Sh!t!!

Now I see it clearly. Your outpourings on Chowk are more expressions of the impotent rage of cowardly loser who didn`t have the balls to pick up a gun and become a Jihadi. That`s why the keyboard/armchair Jihad.

This is a good one. Even the lapdog of Repubs in Washington, Bob Woodward comes out swining…HAHAHA!

Gem of the day:
“quotes the president as saying: ``I will not withdraw even if Laura and Barney (Bush`s dog) are the only ones supporting me.``

AFP
Thu Sep 28

Bush hiding true extent of Iraq violence: veteran US reporter

The US government is hiding the true extent of violence against its military in Iraq, veteran correspondent Bob Woodward has alleged, saying US troops are attacked on average every 15 minutes.

Woodward, whose 2004 book ``Plan of Attack`` said that hawks within President George W. Bush`s administration had decided to invade Iraq before the September 11, 2001 attacks, accuses the regime of hiding the facts from the public.

``It`s getting to the point now where there are eight, 900 attacks a week. That`s more than a hundred a day. That is four an hour attacking our forces,`` Woodward says in an interview with CBS television due to air Sunday.

He alleges that the situation on the ground is getting worse and that strategists believe things will only deteriorate, despite the country already seeing the kind of violence that many say has reached the point of civil war.

``The truth is that the assessment by intelligence experts is that next year, 2007, is going to get worse and, in public, you have the president and you have the Pentagon (saying) `Oh, no, things are going to get better`,`` he says.

``Now there`s public, and then there`s private. But what did they do with the private? They stamp it secret. No one is supposed to know,`` says Woodward.

``The insurgents know what they are doing. They know the level of violence and how effective they are. Who doesn`t know? The American public,`` he adds.

Woodward says Bush is certain that Iraq is on the right course and quotes the president as saying: ``I will not withdraw even if Laura and Barney (Bush`s dog) are the only ones supporting me.``

He further alleges that Bush is taking advice on the strategy for Iraq from Henry Kissinger, the controversial Vietnam war-era national security adviser turned secretary of state.

``Now what`s Kissinger`s advice? In Iraq, he declared very simply, `Victory is the only meaningful exit strategy`,`` Woodward says.

``This is so fascinating. Kissinger`s fighting the Vietnam War again because, in his view, the problem in Vietnam was we lost our will,`` he adds.


Now something very interesting.

The cover and lead story of Newsweek last week in Latin America, Europe, Asia was `Losing Afghanistan`. In the US edition, the cover and lead story was a human interest piece about the life of Annie Liebovitz, famous celebrity photographer.

For their global audience, they provide news. For their American audience, they provide infotainment.

HAHAHA!

Most widely respected Masadi Sahib,

you have once again shown the rest of chowk that your detractors are ``damn fools`` and have

``brains of a rat, the droppings of which you scatter all over Chowk``

LOL!! LOL !!!! LOL !!!!!

But it is clear that you will definitely not wake up to the fact that the rest of the world will not tolerate terrorism any more. That Pakistan needs to be tackling this menace on a war footing.

Minds like your`s need to be educated and converted. Or, if all else fails, eliminated for the greater good...

One last time,

OPEN YOUR EYES, PLEASE OPEN YOUR EYES.

``The ``cure`` of the Afghan`s passion for his creed,
is to banish the mullah from the valley & the hill``.
....Satan`s advice to his minions.

This is a poem where the Satan is exhorting his minions what tactics & strategy to use against muslims...
so in this ``advice`` a muslim can figure out if he, the muslim, is ``with us, or with them``

The second poem is about the League of Nations (mother of U.N) & Iqbal is wondering that if Tehran be the HQs rather than Geneva, then maybe the fate of the nations would be entirely a different one.[ Poem written in the 30`s]



It seems this was written just yesterday.

I do not like the translation below, but am just reproducing for second pinion.

---

allama IQBAL


ORDERS......OF........SATAN......TO.... HIS .........POLITICAL......... PROGENY*


Embroil the Brahmans in statesmanship`s maze,
Make them discard their girdle, creed and ways.
The mendicant whom death can`t affright, Take
Mohammad`s soul from his mould and expedite.
Dye Arab thought in Frankish fancy`s hue,
From Hejaz and Yaman expel the Muslims true.
The Afghan`s zeal for Faith You can assail
By exiling Muslim priests from hill and dale.
Snatch customs of those, who own Muslim creed,
Banish musk-yielding deer from Cathay`s mead.
My songs in Muslim hearts ignite a flame,
Turn out such singer from park for this blame.

*Translation is not mine:

HP,

For their global audience, they provide news. For their American audience, they provide infotainment. HAHAHA!

If they put THISinstead of THIS

...our hamidm2 would wet his pants pretty badly!