Hang Guru, if that helps

That our keystone cops who have not been able to solve a simple case like the Jessica Lal murder even after 7 years but have with such alarming alacrity tied up all the loose ends in this complex one smacks of selective application of justice.

I will personally be much happier if the judiciary passes the death sentence on the cop heading the Jessica Lal investigation for botching it up. That will serve society better and send the right message to those who govern and dispense law and order which is really the need of the hour.

#39 by nasah on October 3, 2006 6:28pm PT

What`s wrong with that? I think this rat should be hanged...if the cops had shot the marauding chaddis in gujrat, a lot more indians would be alive today...Personally I would have no trouble with the security forces opening up on the rioting kashmiris...

#35 by harimau

[His sentence should be commuted to life in prison.... ]

Why?

#39 Nasah sahib

The reference to a “Kaaghaz” version of the President Kalam was my (foolish) attempt at humor by matching the two K’s – i.e., K². I agree it fell flat - the two K`s don`t go well together!

The Indian Prez. is one of the gentlest souls around! But he has his job to do!

Be it going to war or letting a person hang – the decision is always troublesome. However, it needs to be done.

And it will be!

#36
GT sahib, let me sing my tune once more.

[1. The Constitution does allow the President (on the advise of the cabinet) to turn down the judiciary`s petition for an execution.]

Clemency is a prerogative of the executive head virtually everywhere in the world and has perhaps been for a long time – perhaps going back to the days of when kings had the power to grant life or death – like Akbar did to Anarkali (at least in the story). However, there are clear guidelines regarding when such grant of clemency is warranted – it is always based on extenuating circumstances concerning the individual, and not on – NEVER on how much ruckus his bhai-bandaas can raise!

[2. In general: no law, not even the constitution, in a democracy should be static. People should be allowed to change it. In this context I advocate that the state do away with capital punishment.]

There is a well-established methodology for changing the laws – in fact the Indian Constitution is one of the most amenable among the Constitutions of the world (it only requires a 2/3 majority and no state-level ratification). All that is fine, but the change in law should come BEFORE you start letting the crooks walk free! Otherwise, you are putting the cart before the horse.

You are entitled to your views on the capital punishment – but that IS the law of the land at present. If you feel intensely opposed to it – well, go work toward having it banned – but don’t ask for selective exceptions beforehand!

[3. The Indian state is powerful enough. This power is felt and clearly seen in police stations, government offices, the size of defense expenditure relative to education, ... etc, etc. We have given up our rights to the state (or should I say that it has been taken from us) so that it protects us. Now (actually all along) it is saying that such power is not sufficient to prevent crimes (terrorism). It wants the right, under certain conditions, to take the lives of selected citizens as well. This to me is not acceptable. (And I do not care about what it is in the US.)]

Like I said above, if you do not like the law – work to change it using legal methods – of which there are plenty! The same goes for “State’s rights” – a term made popular in the American South during 1860’s as they came up with this euphemism to cover their abhorrent practice of human slavery!

[4. As far as the parliament bombing is concerned, the govt. did not resign when the parliament was bombed. Even the home minister did not resign. Yet we want the life of a Mr. Guru to deter crime. To you this may be fine. But to me this is hypocricy.]

YOU are the one whose argument here borders on hypocrisy. You are asking the VICTIMS to accept responsibility for the crime!

Again, the objective is to punish the guilty, if it deters crime, well and good. If it fails to deter, oh well!! One is always free to revisit the law!

Using LEGAL means, of course - a courtesy that Mr. Guru and his accomplishes (on both sides of the border) invariably fail to extend to ANYBODY - especially their victims!

sorry guys -- see what a mess this case has created on Chowk -- what to talk about in India and the Valley.....

“For all her faults, she would have shown no hesitation in the current situation´(Aleph) -- neither would have her Sikh guards….

“there is absolutely no way I can envision President Kalam commuting this guy`s sentence - unless he is made of kaaghaz or something - i.e., a paper tiger!” (bjk)– Kalam is not made of Kagaz – he is made of nuclear tipped steel – why should he be interested in killing ONE man – when he can kill MILLIONS.

“Jihadis are always boasting that ``We love death more than you love life`` (Ranjit) – because the Jiihadis are lowliest of the lowly cowards.

“His sentence should be commuted to life in prison.... and I don`t mean 14 years…(Hari)” now that`s one muthaf@$king KANWAL blooming in the muthaf@$king pond of muthaf@$king crap…..

“For all her faults, she would have shown no hesitation in the current situation``(Aleph) -- neither would have her Sikh guards….

“there is absolutely no way I can envision President Kalam commuting this guy`s sentence - unless he is made of kaaghaz or something - i.e., a paper tiger!” (bjk)– Kalam is not made of Kagaz – he is made of nuclear tipped steel – why should he be interested in killing ONE man – when he can kill MILLIONS.

“Jihadis are always boasting that ``We love death more than you love life`` (Ranjit) – because the Jiihadis are lowliest of the lowly cowards.

“His sentence should be commuted to life in prison.... and I don`t mean 14 years…(Hari)” now that is one muthaf@$king KANWAL blooming in the pond muthaf@$king of crap…..
“For all her faults, she would have shown no hesitation in the current situation´(Aleph) -- neither would have her Sikh guards….

“there is absolutely no way I can envision President Kalam commuting this guy`s sentence - unless he is made of kaaghaz or something - i.e., a paper tiger!” (bjk)– Kalam is not made of Kagaz – he is made of nuclear tipped steel – why should he be interested in killing ONE man – when he can kill MILLIONS.

“Jihadis are always boasting that ``We love death more than you love life`` (Ranjit) – because the Jiihadis are lowliest of the lowly cowards.

“His sentence should be commuted to life in prison.... and I don`t mean 14 years…(Hari)” now that is one muthaf@$king KANWAL blooming in the muthaf@$k“For all her faults, she would have shown no hesitation in the current situation´(Aleph) -- neither would have her Sikh guards….

“there is absolutely no way I can envision President Kalam commuting this guy`s sentence - unless he is made of kaaghaz or something - i.e., a paper tiger!” (bjk)– Kalam is not made of Kagaz – he is made of nuclear tipped steel – why should he be interested in killing ONE man – when he can kill MILLIONS.

“Jihadis are always boasting that ``We love death more than you love life`` (Ranjit) – because the Jiihadis are lowliest of the lowly cowards.

“His sentence should be commuted to life in prison.... and I don`t mean 14 years…(Hari)” now that is one muthaf@$king KANWAL blooming in the muthaf@$king pond of “For all her faults, she would have shown no hesitation in the current situation´(Aleph) -- neither would have her Sikh guards….

“there is absolutely no way I can envision President Kalam commuting this guy`s sentence - unless he is made of kaaghaz or something - i.e., a paper tiger!” (bjk)– Kalam is not made of Kagaz – he is made of nuclear tipped steel – why should he be interested in killing ONE man – when he can kill MILLIONS.

“Jihadis are always boasting that ``We love death more than you love life`` (Ranjit) – because the Jiihadis are lowliest of the lowly cowards.

“His sentence should be commuted to life in prison.... and I don`t mean 14 years…(Hari)” now that`s one muthaf@$king KANWAL blooming in the muthaf@$king pond of muthaf@$king crap…..

Ref zafarchoudhary #12

[I say hanging one or two would not undo impression of a soft state.]

So, hang a million of them. Hang every Kashmiri Muslim man under 35. That would settle the Kashmir problem.

The Romans did it right. They used to impale enemy soldiers on both sides of their highways to tell the world what happens to those who fight Rome. So did Vlad of Transylvania.

Enough is enough! I am getting tired of these muthaf@$king Kashmiris on this muthaf@$king planet!

Re: # 33 by bjkumar:

``......in a democracy (the law) does get considered, but that consideration is translated into MAKING the laws of the land, not in breaking them!``

1. The Constitution does allow the President (on the advise of the cabinet) to turn down the judiciary`s petition for an execution. This is as it should be. For no human can write complete state contingent laws. As far as this particular contingency (that of Mr. Guru) is concerned, my personal opinion is stated in 4 below. But let me digress a bit in 2 and 3 that follow.

2. In general: no law, not even the constitution, in a democracy should be static. People should be allowed to change it. In this context I advocate that the state do away with capital punishment.

3. The Indian state is powerful enough. This power is felt and clearly seen in police stations, government offices, the size of defense expenditure relative to education, ... etc, etc. We have given up our rights to the state (or should I say that it has been taken from us) so that it protects us. Now (actually all along) it is saying that such power is not sufficient to prevent crimes (terrorism). It wants the right, under certain conditions, to take the lives of selected citizens as well. This to me is not acceptable. (And I do not care about what it is in the US.)

4. As far as the parliament bombing is concerned, the govt. did not resign when the parliament was bombed. Even the home minister did not resign. Yet we want the life of a Mr. Guru to deter crime. To you this may be fine. But to me this is hypocricy.

I think Afzal Guru should not get a pardon which would mean that he has to be set free.

His sentence should be commuted to life in prison.... and I don`t mean 14 years with time off for good behavior. I mean he should spend the rest of his natural life in prison. With the added proviso that if anyone should hijack a plane demanding Afzal Guru`s release, his commutation should become instantly null and void and Afzal should be hanged immediately.

There is one more condition for this commutation of sentence. The Army should shoot dead one or more members of the family of each person demanding a pardon for Afzal. This goes for J&K MLAs, the common filth -- sorry, public -- of Srinagar, members of Dukhtaran-e-Millet or whatever those burqa-clad bimbos are calling themselves, etc. At which point, the Army men involved should be pardoned even without a trial. So that these people who demand a pardon for Afzal will know the pain of the death of a loved one.

Jihadis are always boasting that ``We love death more than you love life``. Yet when it comes time to kick the bucket, they are begging and pleading for mercy and creating all this ruckus. So much for that!!

#30, #31 GT sahib

In other words, you wish the goddess of justice to peek a bit from one corner of that blindfold. Well, why put on the charade then, just remove the blindfold!

Take it down! Take it all down!

And while you are at it, make sure you change her name too!

Call her something else - call her Ms. Public Will, Ms. Politics, Ms. Pragmatism, Ms. Cowardly Act, Ms. Wishy-Washy, Ms. Whatever!

But don`t you DARE call her Ms. Justice!

Of course, the will of the people is to be considered - and in a democracy it does get considered, but that consideration is translated into MAKING the laws of the land, not in breaking them!

Post-facto considerations do not justice make - politics should be dumped into the dumpster! A little bit of cheating IS cheating - like adding just a spoon-ful of the man-made golden natural liquid into a whole vessel full of milk.

Not only it dilutes the milk, it ruins it completely!

Let the punishment fit the crime according to the law of the land!

Why be muddle-headed about it?!

#25 by nasah on October 3, 2006 1:24pm PT


Afzal did participate in a crazy dastardly act that took eleven lives needlessly for his bloody misguided politics


Yes..misguided politics....that`s what it is....Afzal favors a flat tax whereas the government favors a progressive tax..that`s why the government is going to hang him..

Re: # 30

There is an error in my post #30. I mean:

The state as a whole should not ignore the reaction of people in a democracy. The judiciary has done what it has done. Now it is the turn of the representatives of the people.

Re: # 27 by bjkumar:

bjkumar writes:

``Justice needs to be done for its own sake - political considerations and reaction of the population must be ignored! ``

No part of the state should ignore the reaction of the population in a democracy. The prime minister and the president are the representatives of the people. They should evaluate the will of the people and then decide for or against execution.

As far as I am concerned, I am against capital punishment. Mr. Guru should not be executed.

every possible justification and reason seems to be trotted out except for (1) the following of the IPC for providing the death penalty after due judicial process and (2) support for the constitution. Does anything else matter? If it does, on what basis does it matter? #2 itself trumps every other consideration for the President of India downwards.

In short, tough, rest is all excited electrons :)