Innocence, Loss and Nagan Chowrangi

beautiful written ...
Arbab...

A well writen story, I bet the theme is mind whistling ... Sex is pleasure only as the extension of tender and truly immotional love.

Is it purposely thay u use so crude language? my advice - avoid using 4 later words.

Some one pointed out a sense of class conciousness, probably bc of Nagan Chorangi & Defence, so reverse it and notice the impact.

Re: # 10

``child labor, infant mortality, illiteracy, lack of potable water, open sewers, malaria, polio, and mullahism``

If Moe had more spine he`d notice some of these symptoms where he went.

And, #18 by Salim_Chauhan

Your weary jab attempt at me shows what I said to Moe, probably truth-ouched you.

``It`s easy for educated, employed, and moneyed females to cast stones upon those who must sell their bodies to make ends meet - and boy do they make ends meet.``

To reiterate Freud, It’s out of sheer compensation for ability, caliber and perhaps even some God-given limitations that some men go to dark alleyways to assure themselves of their manhood, as opposed to make conscious contracts with women who have more choices, more mobility and more resources.

A woman ought to be as promiscuous as she pleases; my only contention is that there is no academic correlation between her happiness and health, when she operates within a patriarchal vacuum to be so, with little information and little or no deterrence of random violence against her.

Besides there is an overall perversity in secrecy. Women are worth something, and if they are really that satisfied by their choices why not put it out in the world for social scrutiny?
This short, no contract living, only protects men, not the women who will eventually marry them or the women who have to eventually marry other men.

It’s high time we realize that men, who want to have it all, will have something to give at some point in their life.

Aisha Sarwari

#58 Ana

[I`m done here. ]

Okay, I am sorry! I was not trying to get you to try banning yourself all over again!

However, you seem to have been really upset because of my innocent mention of your name in chiding Mian Hamidm2. Therefore, to calm you down, I came up with the following lines (with some help from an old Hindi song), which ought to do the trick!

“Suno Ana, suno Ana
Abhie mehfil se mat jana
Agar jana to yun jana
Ki chhup-chup ke taaktey jana!

Suno Ana, suno Ana
Abhie mehfil se mat jana
Agar jana to yun jana
Ki rehna paas, na far zana!”

#65 by harimau

Ama Harimau, I don’t know about George of the jungle, but the point of the short story seems to have gone over my head!

In fact, it seems to have zoomed past. All kinds of possible explanations come to my mind – some of them so scary that I resolutely look away from them! (I sincerely hope I won’t have to meet George’s fate!)

The bottom line is this – and I hope mian Hamidm2 is listening (and not pouting). I hope mian Hamidm is not upset I called him a moron!

I am sorry.

I realize that the word stings (although it seems to have stung his backers more than him – with Ms. Ana apparently having fallen a potential casualty!)

However, take heart! I think the mian’s reputation is still safe from my onslaughts, since this “damsel in distress” has more defenders than an old piece of wood has termites!

The word “moron” was not to be taken literally!

And those who did – may have fulfilled its literal definition for themselves!

And unlike the Mian and his defenders, THIS interactor never gets defensive over baaps and dadas – because if those baaps and dadas were so smart we would not be in the current situation – discussing the stuff we spend most of our time discussing!

So there!

[With that, I think it is time to write the epitaph on this board.]

As you wish!

An Epitaph
Here lies B.J. Kumar, a valiant warrior but a simple harmless person who was mauled and mutilated – upon the least of provocations – by these vast hordes on the wrong side of the sub continental divide, hordes who – although unable to take up on him in a one-on-one combat because of their limited acumen and their absolute inability and refusal to see things for what those things are – whatever those things be – used all kinds of sneaky underhanded tactics to bring down this noble specimen of humanity lower than the lowliest of creatures. Here he lies, quietly – to let those weak masses run all over him – deluding nobody but themselves that they have actually vanquished this simple being.

And here he lies – dead like a doornail, and if you see him again – don’t you believe your eyes – it will be just a ghost!

Boo!!!

Ref bjkumar #55

[Hey, everybody has opinions.]

BJ, no matter how much time you spend in the US, you can`t get colloquialisms right.... meaning, you can take the Bhaiyya out of Bihar but you can`t take Bihar out of the Bhaiyya.

The correct wording is: Opinions are like @ssholes; everybody has got one.

Unless of course you are George.

And who might be this George, I already hear you wondering.

George, an Australian, befriended Santa and Banta Singh, newly arrived in Australia, and took them everywhere with him.

One day, George was mauled by the dingoes so badly that he was killed and there was no way to recognize his face.

Santa and Banta were distraught that they hadn`t seen George in a couple of days so they went to the local police station to complain that George was missing.

The police said there was an unidentified dead body but they couldn`t identify the man.

Santa and Banta said they could identify George with or without his face.

The policeman asked them how.

Santa and Banta replied in one voice, ``Because George has two @ssholes!``

The policeman was baffled.

Santa explained, ``Everytime we went into a bar, the bartender would call out, `Here comes George with the two @ssholes```.

With that, I think it is time to write the epitaph on this board.

Re:hamidm#62

[...`` saab, kiya houri hai - kakoo kola peeti hai toh galey mein say nazar ata hai`` ...... ]

Ha ha!! That must be one gori houri.......havent seen that happen to American goris yet!!

#62 Hamidm2

You should not judge the whole world by the standards of your Grandpa!

I KNOW, I KNOW - I have heard it before - some of your grandfathers had wisdom we will never have - I know!

The ``wisdom`` that gave us ghulaami!

The ``wisdom`` that gave us shariat!

The ``wisdom`` that gave us honor-killing!

The ``wisdom`` that gave us taliban!

And not to forget...

The ``wisdom`` that gave us a country of the ``Pure``!

Lord save us from the ``wisdom``!

Any more ``wisdom`` and some of us might puke!

All over you.

hypocrites !

.......... it is a shame that the momineen assisted by the bihari munafiq are beating up on the only honorable people in pakistan (and india) - those, who for ages have plied the tabla, harmonium and gungroos with pride and malice towards none ......... these joyful, yet pitiful people have always brought joy and solace to the zamindar, the technocrat, the day-laborer and the code coolie............... in return they have received nothing but scorn, loathing and contempt from hypocritical tamashbeens and abdul johns ........ the proud kanjars, mirasis and randis have always been closer to my heart than the syeds, sheikhs and arains (and now the brahmins) .........i am sure when i get up there my friend bashira will be waiting with garlands of sweet smelling motia and roses, `` saab, kiya houri hai - kakoo kola peeti hai toh galey mein say nazar ata hai`` ......

Dear Chowk staff,

Kindly republish the information that many interactors seem to forget (again and again) regarding the ``ignore`` feature - so those in need can avail of it, instead of being upset by anything (innocent, of course) that I might say!

Thank you!

#59 (add-on)

And that advice is worth the whole rupee, not just another ana!

Good Lord, save us from the lurkers!

They don`t talk much - but when they do...

It`s a doozy!

They give you a mouthful! One innocent witticism and they go off their rockers - like rockets!

I better go and make myself some tea - to cool me down!

Now go do your OWN ooooh`s and Aaaah`s - on the OTHER board where you lurk!

``Everybody has opinions``

Yes Beejay, everybody does have opinions, but if that`s the case, then express your bloody opinions for yourself. Don`t bring my name into it to support your case when there`s no effin` need to. The point of having an ``interacts`` board here is to interact with one another regardless of whether we make fools of ourselves or not.

And there`s nothing moronic about quoting what one`s father or grandfather has to say, some of our grandfathers had wisdom we will never have, unless yours were the exception. I really don`t see you being very original. As a matter of fact you`re aping the Indians and Pakistanis who mangle people`s nicks and their names to show their disgust for them. Not very original at all, is it? Not very clever or funny either.

You brought my name into it because you knew I would react. And I did. And this is the last time that I will be interacting with you here, or on any blog. I suggest that you cease from bringing in my name to score points. I`ve done that to make a point and it tends not to be appreciated by the one mentioned most of the time. I also suggest that you refrain from interacting with me in the future.

I`m done here. All the best.

#56 Ranjit

Okay, I will let your chacha off the hook. But that Etch-pee fellow still remains over the boondocks!

Re:bj#52

[...Of course, I have not!......]

Sure...and I fell off a turnip truck. Even the ultraconservative, head wagging, Tamilian Iyers and Iyengars visit strip clubs in US. And you are a bihari babu.

Maybe your wife visits chowk and checks up on your postings, which is why you are pretending to be an angel!! :-)

[H2.....or even H-pee!!!.....]

Yaar, we need a dedicated peace process between you and Hamid chacha with track1, track 2 and all other kinds of diplomacy.

Hamid chacha, is the most lovable character on chowk, with his boozing, PJ Wodehouse style humor and brilliant wit. In the typical Gopinath vs Ghaznavi battles on chowk, he is a closet Gopinath supporter. He openly fights the Ghaznavis (zeemax, urstruly, echo) and he is mildly sarcastic of the Gopinaths, just so that the ghaznavis dont devour him.

What more do you want? He is the ideal Pakistani!! :-) If you fight with him, he might go to the dark side inhabited by echos, zeemaxes, urstruly etc. Please dont do that to us. We need him on our side!!

Hey, everybody has opinions. Isn`t that what this site is all about?!!

And in my opinion at this time, some of the interactors are morons because they seldom seem to have any thing original to say other than - ``my grandpa used to say``, ``my dad used to say``, or ``Jinnah (who, for all I know, may have been the dad or grandpa) used to say``!

Got what?

Exactly!

#50

I think continuing to respond to you is embarking on a fool`s errand, otherwise I would respond to everything you`ve said and back up what I said.

How about this? Stop assuming what I think or presuming to think who I should or should not talk to. It isn`t that I`m chicken, I choose who to waste my time responding to and who not to. Got it? Good.

Re: # 52

bj,

....... we are all very proud of you .............my father used to say, ``a man who does not have any vice is either a ch##tiya or an angel `` ............ i am sure you are an angel

#51 Ranjit

Moorakh ranjit!

Of course, I have not!

And YOU should NOT have done so either!

Nobody should - whatever their status!

Be it F-1, or F-2, or H-1, or, or, or.....

H₂

or even H-pee!!!

Re:bjkumar#47

[...It is absolutely sickening the way you and that old goat Tauheed go drooling over the subject matter of what essentially is simply a form of exploitation!....]

BJ, are you claiming that you have lived in the US and never visited a place of feminine exploitation e.g. strip club? Puhleeze!! Every red blooded straight desi guy makes that pilgrimage within 6 months of landing here on his F-1 visa and continues that till matrimony and even later.

Remember that saying - ``People who live glass houses......``?

#48 Ana

[Practically everyone makes a fool of themselves here, including yourself. ]

True. But I am upfront about it.

You probably do less of it - not because of any inherent smarts but because (being the chicken that you may be legitimately considered) you don`t open your mouth like you used to.

And when you do, it is to respond to - of all people - the great gas H₂!

Did I say - ``of all people``!

Where the heck did I insinuate whatever you say I insinuated?!!

I think that you may be losing it.

Be well, now!

Re: # 47

bj,

....... here you go again - discussing the merits and demerits of ginger !

I don`t think that hamid is a moron. There is a difference between being a moron, and being slightly misguided. As for me making a fool of myself by interacting with either Hamid or Tauheed (and no, I wouldn`t have a better chance with whom you think I would), gosh Beejay, would that be like you making a fool of yourself by spamming, and making insinuations about interactions between women, among other things?

I suggest you not bother yourself with whom I choose to or do not choose to interact with, or whether I make a fool of myself here or not. Practically everyone makes a fool of themselves here, including yourself.

#9 by aisha_sarwari

You told him, lady! (I think you may be actually smarter than some of your articles tend to indicate.)

#various Hamidm

Mian, go SCREW yourself! It is absolutely sickening the way you and that old goat Tauheed go drooling over the subject matter of what essentially is simply a form of exploitation!

I got so mad that I did not even read your interacts with Ana, who is probably just making a fool of herself – talking with a moron like you in the first place! She probably would have a better chance even with Manto!

Note: I don`t care if this is fiction or otherwise. I react to what I see.

[I compared Farah and her establishment to the animal kingdom and felt strangely soothed.]

No wonder you did not enjoy “it” – you thought you were going for a trip to the zoo!

Let’s cut the crap – all you wanted was good old sex – which is all you got – except for you it was old sex and not so good! What the heck were you expecting – (1) a dinner and a date, (2) candlelight and poems, (3) an enlightened discussion of how to raise the lot of the pure ladies of the land of the purest of the Pure?!

You paid for it – you got it! That is about all there is to this sorry crap. Your moralizing carries no weight – your falsity in trying to look “untouched” afterwards sounds hollower than khaki Pakistani denials on terrorism!

She whored her body – you whored yourself! But she is not sullied – you indelibly are!

Re: # 43

ana,

........ if all of acted like forty somethings when we were twenty the world would probably be a much better and safer place, but it wouldn`t be a lot of fun - amusements parks would only have ferris wheels and choo choo trains that go five miles an hour .............

....... as for the poor mini bar, it too has suffered from the ravages of age, religion, and domineering women - restricted to like pinot noir (good for your heart) and gin and tonic (prevents gout, cancer and plague).......... davis bynum

#38 by hamidm2

“even today strip bars for men outnumber those for women by a 100 to 1 - i have conducted a survey in four counties”

Hmmm. I doubt that I would have ever believed that you were one of those Chippendale audiences but if you say so…Taking a peek at Nick must have helped the survey…

“but it was not always the case”

West has always been more or less equal opportunity provider in terms of sex. Why do you think both Gandhi and Jinnah insisted on going to the west after the tenth grade?

More strip bars is just a sign that men are more willing to spend money for the pleasure whereas women would rather buy handbags. I hope you know that men call it having sex and women call it making love....

hamid,

as usual you make an interesting point, from where you`re sitting at least, par baat sirf pichtaavey ki nahiN. and one of the people you`re addressing is an older woman, unless the ``you`` in use is the more general one.

what strikes one in this story, if we can get back to it, is the double standard, and yes those do change as well, but i think the point some of us were attempting to make is that the change is not always in favor of women. And the Pakistani couples you mention, is their misery derived solely from the fact that they didn`t see what was on the other side? i wonder.

i think one should enjoy their single life as much as possible, but i also think that one should respect themselves. for some, wild oats is not about respecting oneself, and it certainly isn`t about others respecting you. and i speak from experience. twentysomething years ago i wanted to enjoy the view. at fortysomething i know that i lost more than i gained. . . heck all i gained was being able to talk about it.

so yeah, getting it all out of your system is well and good. just don`t lose yourself in the process. and if you do, then make sure you can find yourself and your self-respect again. oh and if you can fulfil all your fantasies with just one person who will always be there for you no matter what, the better!

what are you drinking these days? any suggestions for my mini-bar?!

Re: # 40
ana
i can`t really answer the first part of your question since i`m male, maybe you should enlighten us since you are female.

the second part i can answer. what my sisters real or hypothetical do in their private lives is their business.

enjoy the view

aslam and ana

......... if it is any consolation, i believe it is better to `fulfill` your fantasies, sow your wild oats and get it out of your system before you make a committment to settle down ........ and it doesn`t matter if you are a man or a woman .......... otherwise you will always wonder what you missed out on ........ and i do i know a number of paki couples here (and in pakistan) who are divorced ofter years of living together in misery and wondering about the green grass that they think they missed on the other side ......... graze now and then stick to your pasture - that is my advice to single folks ..........

......... and to be perfectly honest, sex does seem to be highly overated once your hormones settle down and you have bills to pay ................ after you have been on a couple of roller coasters you are just happy to laze on the good old ferris wheel - the thrill might not be the same, but it is less stressful and you have a wonderful view ............

it really isn`t that difficult to ``work out`` aslam. The woman you so distastefully describe may not er, umm, have been a natural blonde? but i`m curious. since you were so liberal as to join a singles club, and fulfil your ``fantasy`` would you acknowledge that your sister (hypothetical or real) has fantasies as well, and let her fulfil them with the same attitude that you fulfilled yours?

jussssst curious.

hamid
that`s a market system, supply and demand.

on the whole west is fairly liberal, middle age men go to thailand to relive their youth, while rich middle age women go to africa and jamica.

i personally had a fantasy about sex with a blonde, but i didn`t want it with a prostitute, so joined local singles club, when i finally got to have sex with one i was dissappointed, i still to this day can`t work out why her pubic hair was not blonde, the other thing was when i kissed her lips she smelled like an old ashtry.

hp,

....... i did not miss the double standard - but standards, by definition, are liable to change ......... today, god forbid, if i insisted on following the standards of our prophet, not only would i be in big trouble with mrs hamidm, i would also end up in jail with a bunch of horny guys from utah ........

........... i agree that the fact that the ``west is an equal opportunity society`` when it comes to sexual matters is admirable, but it was not always the case ............. even today strip bars for men outnumber those for women by a 100 to 1 - i have conducted a survey in four counties .........

...............and let us not forget that before george bush opened up his ranch in texas there was the famous `chicken ranch` outside le grange that got a lot of attention in the 1990 gubernatorial race in which clayton lwilliams ost narrowly to ms big-hair ............. if you remember, the good ole boy proudly stated that in his time most fathers would take their sons down to the chicken ranch for the rite of passage into manhood ........... here is what zz top had to say :

Rumour sprendin` a-`round in that Texas town
`bout that shack outside La Grange
and you know what I`m talkin` about.
Just let me know if you wanna go
to that home out on the range.
They gotta lotta nice girls.

Have mercy.

A haw, haw, haw, haw, a haw.
A haw, haw, haw.

Well, I hear it`s fine if you got the time
and the ten to get yourself in.
A hmm, hmm.
And I hear it`s tight most ev`ry night,
but now I might be mistaken.
hmm, hmm, hmm, hmm.

Have mercy.

First Shandana then Nadia followed by ana have touched upon something that stands out so clearly in this article still our learned commentators like Hamidm and Tahmed missed it completely.

We are from a society where a boy, as soon as he is able to hold it in hands and think, wants to lose his virginity as fast as he could but a girl of about the same age is forced into saving her virginity until it is legal for her to lose it.

If someone were to ask me what I like about the West, I would say that the west is an equal opportunity society in at least this regard. Girls want to and can lose virginity as fast as boys can. This is the kind of parity which saves young boys from traveling to Nagin Chowrangi, Buffer zone or Ancholy Society from Defense society and encounter the lowlifes that live in those lower Middleclass areas.

This is a story of a boy desperate to lose his virginity for some bragging rights. And brag he did. This is also a story of how obsessive a boy can get about losing his virginity to anyone who can provide a castle for a few minutes of frantic actions which always turn out to be anticlimactic.

I can relate to the story as I have been in similar situations when you get someone with an ugly mom after a few drinks to put a handle on your booming libido. I have been to homes where you find a lower middleclass family using girls to make a living. This is life in our society and I guess those who still live there have to live with this.

Despite putting the best face, I clearly see Moe’s disappointment on losing something he thought was precious. Isn’t it ridiculous that young men in their twenties become so obsessive abt losing it and some taking the matter in their hands to seek anything that helps them?

I wonder if some female writer on this forum would be bold enough to write what goes on in girls minds when hormones start acting up but they don’t have some males with ugly mothers to go and lose it for just a few bucks and not worry about being pregnant or deal with a furious brother who wants to protect the family honor.

Mind you, it could be the same brother who lost it to some castle but would die of shame if his sister provides the castle to some male for the same reasons.

urstruly,

``sadest of all people on this planet are mostly fornicators and homosexual perverts``........... okay, but what about homosexuals who are not perverts ?

# 13

``Racket of Self-discovry``

Well said. Indeed it is a racket and it is sold by those who promote zina, fornication and adultery in the society. These people represent satan and want human society to devolve into society of primates. I think author should have used more discretion even though the message at the end is that of disgust and disappointment. I wonder why sin always make human beings sad. I have seen that sadest of all people on this planet are mostly fornicators and homosexual perverts.

At the risk of being nitpicky and being told to lighten up, here`s what I`ve noticed.

-- I think you could have left some of the similies out, particularly the one about the bloated stomach and stick legs looking like he could have been kicked off a flight from Ethiopia. Why go to Africa for that particular image when there are enough children who look like that in Pakistan? the ``invisible`` ones?

You want us to get that the protagonist or the narrator is hip to Western pop culture, and we get that. . . a little too much. To me, it gives the story the appearance of being somewhat contrived. That`s just my humble opinion though.

-- If you want us to see that your protagonist is well-read, then the gypsy Esmeralda is of Hugo, pas de Voltaire. Granted this is a fiction, but again, it seems that you`re wanting to push a particular image of the protagonist, and it seems fair to be accurate.

-- You know how to tell a story, this is true, and your descriptions are raw and vivid. You write well, but I guess what my problem is, and I can only speak for myself, is how you describe the encounter at Farah`s. Whose innocence? Whose loss? I think Shandana makes a good point in #27 about one standard being for the men and one for the women. . . .

[...Farah lived in that house with her mother, her children and her whores. The children knew exactly what went on in the locked rooms. I saw the little boy smirk and giggle innocently as Barron shut the door on him. I wonder how that chubby dark kid would deal with his warped childhood when he grew up. Would he buy into the `ghairat` concept and kill Farah? Would he become the Karachi version of Lahore’s Hira Mundi tabla nawaz; progeny of whores and unknown fathers, destined to beat the drum to their womenfolks’ gyrating hips?]

Wow! Things are no different in Karachi/Lahore than in Tamil Nadu!

The children of your prostitutes play the tabla! The male children of our prostitutes end up being the traditional nagaswaram (shehnai-like reed instrument but much bigger) artists.

Have any of your tabla players made it big? The current chief minister of Tamil Nadu -- the object of adoration by Soysauce of Chowk -- Doctor Artist Leader the Fund of Compassion, is descended from the currently gentrified Isai Vellalar community which is a fancy name for the caste of Melakkarans, who are nagaswaram players.

Aisha-sarwari & Nadia:
I wonder if you ever heard this.

and after Bokhari sahib left the premises, this is what sheemi said


and may I say it was no loss of ``innocence`` [ these phrases come in handy and are used unthinkingly belonging to an alien culture].

It was the loss or rather assaging of GUILT..guilt of missing out not yet being part of the gang.....not being like the rest of the ``modern`` , ``liberated`` ``advanced`` ones.

the more i read it..the more i feel enraged that the venom spitted by the ``innocence claimer`` has sharpened the effects of his inner ugly frame of mind to scold off the a matter of fact a whore...

a whore is whore...and why all writers of such prostituted stuff try to find casualism, solace, moral binding in such places, feel desperate and caring towards fatherless kids...is there any heartning stigma attached to it..that there can be their own child in the making after leaving the exit.

And I still failed to understand why innocence is lost with the willing attempt of conquest of known consequences where you dont have any expectations but paid demands...

Why traumatic love affairs seek camoflague from the hounds of war and it takes asylums in the murkiness of brothels..

For Farah he could be a customer of another day or time, she had no description or mindness to featurized his desperate, frustrate image...Her hunger is not for flesh but for the rate she gets..she doesnt believe in admiration but the insanity she goes through each day is enough to keep her as a comodity a need for the blood thirsty maniacs...who just put there case freeze on the shoulders of Farahs not on the characteristics of the real dearths of life...

Reminds me of Faiz where he expressed debauched sensuality so much gloomily..
aaj ke naam
aur
aaj kay gham kay naam
aaj kaa Gham kay hai zindagii ke bharay gulsitaaN se Khafaa
.
.
.
katariyoN aur galiyoN, muhalloN kay naam
jin kii naapaak Khaashaak se chaaNd raatoN
ko aa aa ke kartaa hai aksar wazuu
jin kay saayoN meiN kartii hai aah-o-bukaa
aaNchaloN kii hinaa
chuuRiyoN kii khanak
kaakuloN kii mahak
.
.
.

Did Farah ever had moral pangs? Did she consider her vocation shameful or benign? I know she kept a majlis during Muharram and her establishment went into sleep-mode during Ramadan. How did she reconcile her lifestyle with her religion, two mutually contradictory things? I could understand a white hooker/stripper rationalizing her choices, for sex for them isn’t a taboo but a natural thing. But Farah lived in that house with her mother, her children and her whores. The children knew exactly what went on in the locked rooms. I saw the little boy smirk and giggle innocently as Barron shut the door on him. I wonder how that chubby dark kid would deal with his warped childhood when he grew up. Would he buy into the `ghairat` concept and kill Farah? Would he become the Karachi version of Lahore’s Hira Mundi tabla nawaz; progeny of whores and unknown fathers, destined to beat the drum to their womenfolks’ gyrating hips? I knew I was projecting my own morality on this happy little whore household. I was also subtly conscious of the irony of pondering questions of ethics and morality while waiting for my turn to ride the velvet pony.

Great stuff.

shandana: (hey!)

baron(why not jamrood bhai?) was like a mother-figure from animal planet who is showing him the ways of the big bad world.. i mean..New Karachi..taking him out.. making connections.. setting up preys. That ``lash pash beta`` was the clincher. Brother Zamanov, this could be a great 20-30 minute short.. you`r right about the movie thing.

Re: # 27

shandana,

you ask : ``since the narrator`s sharing of an illicit experience with the baron seems infinitely more exciting to him than sharing one with the bottom, could it be that he`s gay?`` ........

............. no, it is one of the rituals of male bonding - and there are many others like : getting drunk and puking your guts out, sitting in ehtiqaf during ramadhan with ten other smelly men , simulating sex with strippers at bachelor parties, attending koran classes on the weekends, sharing raunchy sex stories - half of them being untrue, lining up to pray with other men and playing footsie with the guy next to you, belching and farting in unison after eating bufallo wings and drinking beer, belching and farting in unison after eating biryani and drinking milk with rooh-afza , etc. etc ......

....... if women knew what men were really like, they would all be lesbians ...... sorry

it has been a long time since i posted a long interact on a chowk article. the effnrt involved in trying to sign in from my new desktop four times, giving up and disconnecting it unplugging wires finding old laptop under mans loothes on the bed connecting it back up turning it on logging on signing in rewriting every line because bloody half the keys dont work half the time etc has drained me. now that i`m here, i feel even more deeply for the pain of moe`s anti climax.
this was a good read, raw, visceral, wryly observed. except for the cliched descriptions at the end (fireworks, levitation, castle...yawn). why i really responded to it was that it had the ring of emotional truth to it. truth, as i hope poor moe finds out one day, is an aprhodisiac guaranteed to negate the killjoy effects of staging and pretence. thats why you should skip the hookers. not because its wrong, or bad or oppresses women, but because its a lie.
the truth in this is also why it disturbs me as a woman. i dont want to kill moe, but i dont want to save him either. good for him...i know that most men here divide women into the sum of their parts and then talk to or about the ones they like best, but when will they stop fixating on some baichari`s ass? the mother whore is castigated for her crudity, but the immature (if intelligent) observer sees no harm in his. one standard for her, another for him, another clue to why some fail to balance the pleasure equation.
since the narrator`s sharing of an illicit experience with the baron seems infinitely more exciting to him than sharing one with the bottom, could it be that he`s gay?

#19 and #21
... i find it hilarious to see two fifty plus old dads fighting about...did he or didn`t he...reminds one of the famous misra...
main jhuk ke dhoondhta hun jawani kidhar gayee...;)

Re: # 21


LOL


...... also we must find out, whether he developed it as a permenant feature or not,

But then for that we will have to wait for his NEXT ecnounter,


Also ...............would then someone REFER him to the

70 Sala TijerbaKar Qibla Mohterram Hazrat Janab Baray Saniyasi Baba Sahib...??

#23 I demand the author back any claims he makes with four eye-witnesses of good character!!

Re: # 22

tahmed,

...... now don`t go literary on me ! ........ we are talking about the physical phenomenon of antilclimax - kind of like the lull after the storm .........and may i also refer you to :`` I withdrew my forces from the castle and tended to their uncleanliness`` ...... obvious, no? ............. but let`s not argue about it - we will let the author settle it for us ....

hamidm: As any literary critic worth his salt will advise you, an anti-climax is a substitute - and not merely a supplement - to a climax. Just as you cannot have pathos and bathos at the same time. Except in bollywood movies. And we not talking bollywood movies here!!

Re: # 19

tahmed,

...... but what about the next line in which the author says : ``Ah, the anticlimax. So that`s what it was all about. All the rancid poetry of Ghalib and Meer. All the cheesy and syrupy-sweet movie ballads. The veil had been lifted from the mystery, the spell was broken and innocence was lost. I felt cheated and disillusioned. `` ...........

...........i believe he is talking about that empty feeling, anticlimax, that is perfectly normal after an encounter of this sort ............how can you experience an anticlimax unless you have gone through the climax and, after all, he does go on to say that the veil had been lifted from the `mystery` .................... but you are right, ``The spirit was willing but the flesh was weak`` is a little confusing ..... however, combined with the example of fizzling firecrackers in the previous paragraph, i took it to mean premature ejaculation or loss of erectile function during the intercourse ............. no ?


...... it is a little confusing and i hope the author can clarify this important matter for us before we get down to the mundane business of discussing the merits of legalizing prostitution ......

The metaphors reminds me of ``Naked Guns 33 1/2`` and for the frustrated libertines ``Ae maalik banday tairay hum.........`` from ``Dau Aankhein Barah Haath``.Nice lullaby for the kids entering puberty.

hamidm: Your post forced me to re-read this crucial part of the article to see if the transaction was indeed completed. That re-affirms what I had originally noted - it was not.

What you refer to is clearly dry runs prior to any actual activity, as the following extract from the article indicates:
``I had learned a lot myself from multimedia presentations and documentaries about the subject at hand. Matter of fact, I had planned a whole litany of stages....

What actually happened (or didnt happen) is clear from what follows:
In the interest of cathartic self-expression, I am not too embarrassed to declare: The spirit was willing but the flesh was weak.

Q.E.D.

Moe,
Enjoyed reading your article. You have a real talent in using words to convey vivid descriptions of your subjects and the surrounding environment. Please don`t be distracted by the nonsense that will obviously come your way about the discomfort caused to well-off women by your scintillating anecdote. It`s easy for educated, employed, and moneyed females to cast stones upon those who must sell their bodies to make ends meet - and boy do they make ends meet.
Keep up the good work. This is the most positive story about Karachi that I have read in a long time. Thanks.

This was badass man, keep contributing

Re: # 15


tahmed,

...... i think you are reading it wrong ..... the author says: ``I debuted with a position that has special ecclesiastical sanction, to wit, the missionary. That led me, after a while, in the canine territory. Finally, I handed over the reins to her and she rode me like seabiscuit on Karachi Race Course.``

...........based on this - which, by the way, is the best description of the three most common positions i have ever read - i would say that he was able to complete the transaction even though it ended in a less than satisfactory conclusion .......... but then, that can sometimes be the case in these type of transactions, whether they have divine sanction or not ......

So - the writer went to the red light district and couldnt complete the transaction because the whore was too gross for his refined tastes. What a tragedy. ha! ha!

Re: # 13

echo,

........... stop littering !

aisha & Nadia:

Thanks for providing an alternative & perhaps more genuine & relevant one. ``JIss tUn laagay , voh tUn jaanay``..those who suffer or can feel , know it better or can emphatise.

I hope the innane comments(#10) of Hyena Hamidm2 do not lead to the classic & beaten-to-death favourite topic of the exploitation & ``If-its-against-Islam-it-must-be-good`` kind of hyena homilies..the ones who laugh, sneer, deavour & belch it out as ``humour``.

P.S: Praising the article itself does not mean that one agrees with the subject matter. Nevertheless, except for an insensitive Title, the writer is pretty upset at the whole
racket of self-discovery.

The sheer crudeness has ruined what could have been a good literary effort.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

Re: # 9

aisha,

.... lighten up !........... prostitution has been around since eve traded favors for an apple and will be around as long as men and women are around - just because we wish it wasn`t there, will not make it go away ........ moe`s story was simply a wonderful account of life as it is - warts and all - and we should just leave it at that, instead of accusing the poor guy of sexual harassment !

......... personally i think it is extremely hypocritical to stigmatize the world`s oldest profession and look down upon these poor women who are providing an essential service ........ and contrary to popular belief, these women have much more control over their lives than many housewives who live under the tyrannical rule of their abusive husbands and in-laws ........ like every other underground business, it is seedy and the only way to clean it up is to legalize it ......... just like the liquor business - before the advent of islam in 1978 you could walk into the liquor store in regal chowk or on mm alam road and walk out without having to deal with crooked cops and violent criminals ....... today, the liquor business is still thriving in lahore but it is a criminal enterprise ..........

......... in the good old days when prostitution was `semi-legal` it was confined to hira mandi and patoki on the outskirts of lahore - everyone knew it was there, but nobody really talked about it ......... now it is everywhere and still nobody seems to care other than the usual suspects - mullahs and goody-two-shoe activists ......... i say, find a better cause and leave the poor women alone ! ........ it is not as if there is a dearth of better causes in pakistan: child labor, infant mortality, illiteracy, lack of potable water, open sewers, car jacking, malaria, polio, and mullahism .........

Moe,

This was painful. On many levels. But most of all, because women deserve better. And so do men who are fooled into thinking that women don`t. There is much satisfaction, of the deep kind, the kind that has no anti-climax, when a woman and a man, contractually agree to share, including flesh, under certain rules that account for a full disclosure on the spiritual, the emotional and the mundane, as well as the possibility of disease. And there is a forever disloyalty and insecurity in treading the path of an arm chair sociologist - A crook and a malicious writer of politically correct porn. Which you are, by this disgusting display of the glamorization of this place next to Karachi Broast.

If you can use your ability to write such beautiful prose, observe societal trends and be this well read, can`t you see that what you did was a direct form of sexual harassment? Whose main characteristic is the inequality of status and power structure? There are very few things in the life of women that are voluntary. Rather than be the kind of man who understands this and creates more freedom, you and your kind would rather dip into its vile fluids and get your 5 minutes of fame by writing about it - make another sale. After all what`s to lose?

I don`t give much about the rape of sprit theory in this entire matter, its just bad citizenry.

Why not woo a woman with more choices? Possibly because you don`t stand a chance in a fair playing field. If there has been any loss it is of the legal kind, quit belittling the crime of it by calling it a loss of an arbitrary ``innocence.``

Men like you deserve to die without being loved by anyone except your moms.

Aisha Sarwari

cool read though I kept wondering loss of innocence is directly proportional to the physical rape...and is a shame if its overdued...

you can have a minor rampage of ideas if at a delicate age you come to know:

-your father is a thug, a corrupt person who loots to make money and you are fed on that meal everyday. And you decide to support his wrong deeds and defend him to do more...

-you are given the undue privileges as you are son/daughter of a VIP and take advantage over less benefited. And you admire this behavior..

But you bubble up like you are going to be fire-up if a professional brown woman took sommething that seems you holding for that long..

From your experience first of all you dont seem innocent, yeah but tempted vigorously...its like giving change that remains unwanted in your hands and you give it to the beggar in the street..

However the frustration is due demanding!

Keep up the Good Work!

moe,


that was really good ...... nice work ! ......thanks for a good read ...

Dear Moe,

Bravo. Thoroughly enjoyed your article, bought back some old memories....thanks

``I know she kept a majlis during Muharram ``

oh, the great Kaali Shalwar. awesome!

Moe,
i enjoyed the way you wrote this...Some of the lines were hilarious! Keep writing more and posting it no matter what some detractors may say....I am almost inspired to direct a movie based on this story ;)
Also an intimate perspective on the underbelly of Pak saaf society...The dichotomy of jainamaz and koranic verses in almost every house and the rank poverty, bad hygiene, beggary, robbery, profanity, vulgarity, lawlessness all around.

Peace

So, it was more like Felini`s ``whore`` in 8-1/2. Wese, pynchon`s spy/mathematician/``whore`` Katje would take my oscar for the best literary creation in the genre...

good, good writing. it could work as a shortstory if the narration`s tightened up just a wee bit.

Very good!

I know what it feels like to be taken so forcefully against your own will....

Once a physical virginity is lost, it cannot be replaced.....

and once the spirit is wounded, the body doesnt care anymore......

Prayer brings the body dignity, and any man cant take it away.....

You can rape, you can pillage
You can drive it in harder or softer

Faster or slower.....

It makes absolute no difference

because its just the flesh....the mere body.....

The spirit can no longer be touched by you......the rapist, the molestor, the buyer of a prostitute in this case....

After my unwilling rape in 1995, it matters not what can happen to my body.....

No man can do anything to it......

I mean they can create physical pain and pleasure.... the two do tend to go together simultaneously........sometimes anyways......

But the point I am trying to make it that no man or woman can take your dignity away...no matter how horrific the act might seem......


Prostitutes are not born.....

They are made! by the vile desires and lasvicious desires of Unclean and Unchaste Men and Women.......

Mary Magdalene was a prostitute........

I rest my case..... if there was ever one .........

I hope this has been instructive.....

Although I am glad the author had a blast....

Hey, Men have Phalluses and they need release......

Such are the matters at the base of all things.......

Footnote: All events and protagonists are fictional. Reality is an illusion.


After reading the disclaimer above, I just mentally shifted the article from the ``Sociology`` shelf to the `` Comedy & Laughter`` section .......

You have at least introduced us to Mohammed Bokhari sahib!..but we`ll not tell anyone that you know him.

P.S:by the way, Good story-telling , rich in detail as well as nuances.