The General and Kargil

Re: # 95

Okay, so what? Nawaz had to ask the army to withdraw - okay the US asked Nawaz who asked the army to withdraw.

What do you infer from it?

#40 by Urstruly

It wasn`t a theory. This account has been provided in Bruce Reidel`s details of the Clinton/Nawaz meeting at Blair House on July 4, 1999. Some excerpts:

...On the third, more information developed about the escalating military situation in the area —disturbing evidence that the Pakistanis were preparing their nuclear arsenals for possible deployment.

...There was more disturbing information about Pakistan preparing its nuclear arsenal for possible use. I recommended that he use this only when Sharif was without hisaides, particularly not when the Foreign Secretary, Shamshad Ahmad, who was known to be very close to Pakistani military intelligence (ISI) was in earshot.

... Clinton asked ... Did Sharif order the Pakistani nuclear missile forceto prepare for action? Did he realize how crazy that was? You’ve put me in themiddle today, set the U.S. up to fail and I won’t let it happen. Pakistan is messing with nuclear war.

#97 by macaca_dick

What I infer from it, Mr. macaca_dick, is the obvious fact that Nawaz did not run to Clinton asking for help. It was the other way around. Clinton wanted to stop the war at any cost because he knew Pak had deployed its tactical nukes in the event of a naval blockade of Karachi by macaca navy, which was the next military step by macacaland though it is not mentioned by Bruce Riedel.

okay here is the final deal

(a) Pak ocupied hill tops
(b) 5 platoons of regular army used + few irregulars
(c) India used 5 divisions
(e) nukes deployed
(f) naval blockades threatened
(g) uncle sam wees in pants at thought of nukes going off
(h) uncle sam summons his chela Nawaz for a pow-pow on 4th July
(i) nawaz suprised (or not) - sweats (or not)
(j) nawaz agrees for withdrawal
(k)India kills a few more on hill tops now - no more rations for the paks on tops
(m) death all round - kill ratios? use imagination here
(n) NYC, WP, Times etal carry centre page ads on Pak terrorist State and failed state
(o) image sticks all round
(p) agra happens
(r)Chickens are eaten in agra
(s) parliament attacks takes palces
(t) India on war footing
(u)pak sweatsfor a few months
(v) peace talks
(w) billions invested in kashmir

So what exactly has been happening here? Any clues? Anyone?

Deals done people! Live with it. Currently people are going through the motions a choreographed dance. Its management of deal for eventual reavelation.

#83 by HP

Absolutely brilliant, HP! I think you should be given some kind of chowk award for your originality of ideas. It is perhaps the most original of all ideas (with the possible exception of some of my dear Zeemax (and of course Mr. Ahmedmadani sahib))!

I would like to just add a few words and do some further extrapolations based on your ideas.

From the very outset, I wanna make it clear that I have not read Mushy’s book nor have I the intention to spend money on it. The author of this article has selectively quoted a few things but mostly he has spent time quoting some other people to refute mushy’s contention – in all probability because he did not wish to spend money, either – a characteristic shared with large number of chowkies.

Mushy may have meant something different than what some common commentators think (unlike HP, who is absolutely uncommon).

Understanding the context is crucial in following a political subject.

Secondly, I believe that Pakistanis are the smartest people in the world who never lack the ability to really follow the political or diplomatic meaning in any of mushy’s comments – they understand his nuances so well, they love him so much from the bottom of their hearts that they elected him with a 98% majority – which is probably why GWB is so much in awe of him. (No Pakistani exceptions to this rule, except the measly 2 percent who did not show up for the polls – perhaps they overslept after a long night of qawwali!)

That aside, I think mushy “wrote” this book with some specific purpose in mind and that purpose was not to just make money. Because he could just be taking money from the usual sources – like the US Treasury, which can fork him any amount he names – which could be immediately reimbursed via commissions on arm sales to Pakistan, of course!

You see, the opportunity could not have been better – now that the Versey has bolted, the vast multitude of chowkies are truly missing their daily quota of fiction – and who is better to fill her boots than the Mushy!

Just look at the clues – out goes the Versey, and in comes this book! What could be more suspicious?!!

And who do you think the REAL writer (the writer behind the ghost writer) is?!! Yup, HP got it! The book was published to coincide with her return from the US trip and the trip was confirmed just ten months ago. So the book was hastily written and sold to a major publishing house which did not even have time to proofread, fact check, and work on grammar. You don’t expect such grave errors from a major publication house unless the publisher was forced to accept the book as it is – and unless the writer is who I implied the real writer is!

Just think who could have possibly forced/convinced a major publishing house to print this book!

Secondly, the book was meant to be sold in the US – where most of the chowkies are physically located. The US admin was so happy with the book that President Bush himself was gleefully peddling the book. Can any Pakistani, with the exception of HP, put two and two together here? I doubt that.

Now let me get in to a little background of what I am implying. It has been well known that most Pakistani army Generals have been in league with the Versey for a long time. They have always been amply rewarded by favorable articles. Their kids have so many articles now that at least their next seven generations are set to read for life. Some other generals from the afghan war era are set for at least next three generations.

Can any one catch my drift here? The book was written and published in the US to pave the way with favorable opinion at chowk.com for Mushy baba. The question is what was the need for so much hassle when all that was needed was a stern talk with the chowk fat-cats?

Well! The times have changed. Public opinion polls are not what they used to be. The Pakistani fauzis have little left to do – since our smart CIA men have the administration of that country in their good hands – but it seems that the US will like to keep Mushy around after he is shunted out of power in the next couple of years. Money wise he is already set, for Mush will, I believe generate 10 to 12 million bucks out of this deal. Now public is not going to buy million copies but the US libraries and schools, the Saudi government, the US government, The Pak govt. and many other well wishers would contribute to Gen. Musharaf’s welfare fund and it will be legal for Mush to live in the US after retirement off of legal income. The rest of his income would stay somewhere else.

But a man needs more than money in his life. He needs fame, recognition and most important, he needs his creativity to bloom – like Mao’s proverbial thousand flowers!

Like Ayub Khan was rewarded for signing Cento, Seato, U2 and Badabaer facilities, Zia was rewarded for helping in Afghanistan, Manto’s beloved Musharaf is being rewarded for his help before, during and after 9-11. He is being groomed to become the next Chowk Chief Editor!

That is all there is to it about the book and who cares what facts are about anything?

#102 bjkumar, please give HP the benefit here.....
one is certain....Musharuff is the a pretty clean leader pakistan has had. I am not aware of any of his kids or other making money of his name unlike some of the others. In this HP could be on the right track.

As for the rest HP lives in a world where he is the Mother Superior ofthe Convent and the rest are mere novices.......Chowk needs a few flighty types. For the ones who can be flighty are more masculine and muscular!

#103 should have read ``.......one of the most clean leaders pakistan has ever had......``

#93 by zeemax on October 10, 2006 1:15am PT


Hello peemax..the paki army was getting the cr@p kicked out of it. The military wanted a withdrawal but Nawaz wanted a face saving gesture..People who are winning don`t ask for face saving gestures..

And if it was Clinton doing the begging, why did Nawaz go to DC? Non-deluded people expect Vajpayee to go to DC or bubba to come to Islamabad....

#89 by Mantolives on October 9, 2006 10:39pm PT

Should we now throw out our t-shirts with paki flags and wear t-shirts with musharraf`s mug to stay safe in the US?

Tell you what...since it`s Pakiland that`s associated with islamic terrorism and pakis who`re more likely to looked upon as terrorists by the feds, why don`t you try the t-shirt thingy out..

we`ll see if it gives you any better treatment that this...

Re: # 107

Ranjit bhai u are right key Nawaz Sharif kee phut gai thee..that`s because he was investing heavily into setting up of sugar mills in India...if Mush would have gone for the nuke option tou phir luch nahi bachta india mein..remember Pak is the one not willing to sign the no first strike treaty and that is because there would be only one strike and that is it....
aik jhatka aur phir india wipe out ho jaiey ga..no time for retaliation...its just a matter of few buttons...

Re:zeemax#98

[..What I infer from it, Mr. macaca_dick, is the obvious fact that Nawaz did not run to Clinton asking for help. It was the other way around. Clinton wanted to stop the war at any cost because he knew Pak had deployed its tactical nukes in the event of a naval blockade of Karachi by macaca navy, which was the next military step by macacaland though it is not mentioned by Bruce Riedel.....]

Abey macaca_mullah, did the US beg General Niazi to surrender in Dhaka in 1971? The fact is that Nawaz Sharif peed in his shalwar - Phat ke haath me aa gayi thi. He could see that things were moving to a nuke showdown which would mean the end of Pakistan. He surrendered and pulled his northern infantry macacas back from Kargil, otherwise Islamabad would be a graveyard today.

And tactical nukes kise dikha raha hai, macaca? Indian nukes can obliterate your piddly country in one night and you put you back in the stone age. Then macacas like you can swing from trees all day.

Re:ahmedmadani#91

[...I found something so good. Actually my daughter send me casset. There is heavenly Bandish in Raga Basant. All those who like Kirana Gayaki know Late Abdul Karim Khan`s khayal (basant) ``Fugwa Brij Dekaneko`` but he is heavenly in another Bandish in Rag Basant surpasses heavely pleasure for ears and brain. ``Ab maine Man Dekhe``.It is hardly 4 minutes but lifts and you go in paradise of notes.I have listened lot but its heavely. Also Khansahib in Khayal other Ragas (Bilawal,Shudh pilu.Malkauns)....]

Ahmed madani sahib, please dont mind my exchanges with zeemax, whom I consider to be a scum of the earth, who deserves to be royally spanked.

I have listened to this Raag Basant bandish from Ustad Abdul Karim Khan - ``Ab maine Man Dekhe``. It is absolutely divine and is one of my favorites too. In fact, Ustad Abdul Karim Khan was perhaps, the best vocalist that I have ever heard. What a voice!! He even trumps Bade Ghulam Ali Khan. In fact it was said about him that if an instrument didnt match his voice, that instrument was out of tune.

If you like Abdul Karim Khan, listen to Pt. D.V. Paluskar. Paluskar`s voice was very similar to Abdul Karim Khan. He was from Gwalior Gharana. In fact if you have seen Baiju Bawra movie, Pt. Paluskar was Baiju`s voice in that famous competition song with Tansen (Ustad Amir Khan) - ``Aaj Gaavat Man Mora``. He has several 2 mins recordings of different raags which are delightful.

I havent heard Pt. Bhimsen Joshi sing that particular bandish in Basant. But he has sung several others like ``Jamuna ke teer``, ``Bajuband khul khul jaye`` etc. I would recommend that you listen to Raag Lalit Bhatiyar bandish from Pt. Joshi - ``O Kartar``. It is really spellbinding as he mixes two of the most complex raags Lalit and Bhatiyar.

#105 byUgly_macaca re#93 by zeemax

.....Nawaz wanted a face saving gesture..People who are winning don`t ask for face saving gestures....

Hahaha ... macaca jumping up & down. Abey macaca, if Pak was losing why was it readying the nukes which in any case was for escalation?

And if it was Clinton doing the begging, why did Nawaz go to DC?

For Bloomingdales ... Hahahaha ...

Abey macaca he went himself with his family because he knew army was planning a coup and he had the choice to remain in USA in that case .. that too is in Bruce Riedel`s book.

#107 by moronic_macaca

Indian nukes can obliterate your piddly country in one night

Hahaha ... I`m literally rolling on the floor.

Abey macaca see the whole plan. Firstly, macacaland does not have sub-kiloton tactical nukes, Pak does. 3 out of the 5 tested were sub-kiloton tactical warheads. India only made and tested the biggies. Making tactical nukess is a lot harder than making those big mothers of 10 kiloton or more. Next, the tripwire defence of 10 kilometres inside Pak territory (someone mentioned it) was a defensive plan inside PAK`S OWN TERRITORY, not on MACACALAND`S leaving macacaland with no basis for a wholesale nuke strike oh Pak cities, which in any case Pak could match with its own. Macacaland was done with if the war hadn`t stopped. I regret that now after meeting you macacas.

But everyone knows the low-class macacas here are too dumb to fathom military strategy like that!

#109 by zeemax on October 10, 2006 5:54am PT


Ok peemax: whatever..to each paki his own self-delusions..if you want to delude yourself into thinking Pakiland won in Kargil, knock yourself out..if you want to delude yourself into thinking Pakiland does 300million $ of IT exports, knock yourself out..


p.s.

If Kargil was such a great victory, when will Kashmir banega Pakiland?

Any timeline on when the flag of allah`s MFN will fly on srinagar?

#110 by ugly_macaca

.....when will Kashmir banega Pakiland?

Sooner than you think.

...Any timeline on when the flag .... will fly on srinagar?

I`ll put my chip on 2010 or sooner. No later than that.

LoL.