Hijacking of Islam

Re:krishna_abcd#161

[..After interacting with Muslims on this forum for the past few years I think that the situation is pretty hopeless. ..]

I think you are overestimating the fundo aspects of Islam. Religons like empires go through their own life cycle. They have a militant phase and then they stabilize. At some point, Christianity was very militant and violent with entire focus on proselytization. Today it feels like a very benign faith. The older religons like Judaism, Hinduism and Buddhism have stabilized but I am sure they had their own violent past. Same can happen for Islam - it is afterall a man made religion.

Urstruly,

Did you even read the hadith before you posted it? And when you did read it upon my asking, what did you learn? Can you at least give an honest response?

Look, DM here thinks you are a sincere, compassionate man with a sharp intellect who has deeply studied Islam. Are you now going to disappoint him ...?

I consider myself a Muslim and if this bothers you, deal with it like a man ... not like an animal. Imprisoning Ahmadis for following Islam is not civilized behavior ... it shows mental, social, and moral corruption of your ilk. Same is the case with advocating that apostates, blasphemers, adulterers be killed.

BTW, you are yet to show how Ahamdi-Muslim views go agaisnt Quran. You are all hot air and no substance.

sattar,

I hereby forfiet my right to explain hadith to you and also my status as a man of integrity. For a millioneth time, let me tell you that as a Muslim I have absolutely no problem with your belief system, what you worship or whom you hold dear - as long as you don`t call your belief system as Islam. Thank you. Live and let live.

Urstruly,

... and here`s another chance for you to explain the hadith that you posted, and now avoid like a disease ... here we go ...

.... ``I am the last prophet and this mosque of mine is the last mosque ...``

What does last mean here? I am asking for 7th, perhaps 8th time. Note that YOU posted this hadith, and not me.

If you have any integrity, you`ll admit that you bungled up here. If you cannot even admit this, it shows your insincerety and disregard for truth.

This should dispel the notion of your ``deep study of religion`` ... while highlighting your dishonest attitude.

So, can you dance?

Urstruly,

... your ideology is ``hijacked Islam`` ... hijacked and held for political ransom ...

If you are a man of integrity, show me one place where Ahmadis violate Quran. So far you have only displayed hateful bias and disregard for truth, while promoting violence and hatred.

... so you have nothing to say in response to my post to DM (#142) ...?

Re: # 160

Its the usual crap let out by the Islamic Left of pakistan. For they have bought whole sale the propaganda of the elite. having bought this *rap they need to justify it. And they come up with these no good statements.

They have not guts to say that the elite in pakistan are robbing the nation - for that would render them in their minds open to the charge that they are anti-pakistan, anti-quam, treasonous etc. So inorder to get round this problem these brainless dimwits, use an intelletual deceit, nay the rgument of a charlatan, by trying to bracket India with themselves.

Re: # 160 Masadi,
do you have facts and figures for your statements!

Can you tell me what can be really done with the monies?

Can you tell me what is the proportion of themonies spend in temrs of GDP per capita, GDP, budgetary allocations?

And please donot use the silly throwaway lines like ``I have done actual research on it. He on the other hand can only throw out names of ``no name`` researchers that make zero logical sense.`` which only results in more ridicule for your intellect (if I were you I would prefer contempt - atleast that indicates a certain intelligence0

#144 by ranjit


[Sorry to hear what happened to your family. My family went through pretty much the same in Pakistan.

In retrospect, doesnt it all look incredibly stupid? All the frenzy of killing, rape etc and now when people meet, they hug each other and cry, as they look wistfully at their ancestral homes. I guess basically we are nothing better than dumb macacas. ]

I think there is a fundamental point that needs to be addressed.

There are basically two ways of looking at this Muslim vs non-Muslim thing.

One would be Ranjit`s way, or the liberal way. This is what people like Salim Chauhan have been saying from the beginning, This says - we are ALL to blame. We ALL need to change. Hindus, Zoroastrians, Buddhists, Shintos, Muslims, Jews etc. Indeed, looking at the whole thing from a distance, that is what it seems - two people fighting each other. One a Hindu and one a Muslim. They BOTH need to stop.

But there is another bird`s eye view that doesn`t get talked about that much. Yes, on THIS street the Hindus are fighting the Muslims. But on the next street, it is the Jews fighting with the Muslims. And on the next street, it is Christians fighting with the Muslims. And on the next one, it is Buddhists fighting with Muslims. And the next one, SECULAR Chinese fighting with the Muslims. And so on...

You read, and you find out that the trouble with Muslims in China started under the MOST liberal and benevolent Chinese kings in all of history. He even had a Muslim studies department set up funded by the government. But no, the Muslims wanted their own state under Allah. This pattern is repeated evreywhere around the globe. In Canada, the idiots are so left-wing that they were considering allowing shariah laws for Muslims. Then they uncover a plot to blow up Canadian buildings. In Holland, probably the most liberal of all nations, the immortal Van Gogh`s grandson is butchered in broad daylight. Did Muslims take out a protest march the next day? Did they introspect and hold meetings and try to get rid of ``radical`` elements within them? Not a chance. Look at Thailand. The Buddhists there are definitely not the bloodthirsty types bent on killing Muslims. Even their top general is a Muslim. There is a bloody secessionist insurgency raging there with the full backing of the majority of Muslims there. They want their own heaven under their Allah. The list is long.

Thousands of innocent people will continue to die because of this way of thinking that people like Ranjit favor. A problem needs to be recognized first before it can be addressed. On other forums ``moderate`` Muslims like Kulharee inform us that they are too scared to do anything. Well, if one section of the Muslim population stays neutral, and the rest of them are out to kill, what does that make the average Muslim effectively?

After interacting with Muslims on this forum for the past few years I think that the situation is pretty hopeless. It is NOT going to change with statements like ``We are all to blame, let us hug each other`` and ``Okay, I will pay the Jizya if we can be friends``. This thing is cancer. And needs to be treated as such.

I suggest mass conversions of Muslims to ANYTHING ELSE. It worked in Spain. The Spanish are Catholics now, and are not part of the supply chain for global jehad. It worked. I think it is the only solution. A couple of generations after conversion, people accept the status quo.

Many Muslims feel stuck in their religion. To be an apostate means social pariah status, and possibly death. Many Muslims just might welcome the opportunity to get out of this mafia-like cult. Where you can enter, but can never leave.

I think this is the only solution. The tree-hugger approach will only get more inncoents killed.

okhla writes <<< Let the Indian chowkies contribute to the cost of 1 solar tubelight in each of the 50 Pak >>>

A better project would be to fit one solar tubelight each into the leadership of Pakistan and India`s a$$ so that when it lights up they can see with clarity that instead of spending billions on arms and armament, making the West rich, they need to spend more on their people, because all that wealth belongs to the people. 2 solar tubelights shouldn`t cost very much.

Re: # 158

Fine by me. As long as you keep your religion and ``hijacked Islam`` as two separate enetities.

Urstuly,

More hot air from you ... in response to sharp points I raised about your deceptive and dodgy ways and hidious agenda.

Show me one item where Ahmadi-Muslims deviate from Quran ... and I`ll accept your offer. Read my posts to DM and zeemax for clarification if you are still confused.

If you insist that killing apostates, adulterers, and blasphemers is Islam, that supporting violence against others over faith is Islam, that preventing Ahmadis from giving azaan, from praying, from fasting ... is Islam ... then kindly leave me in peace as a non-Muslim.

What you say is not the way of Quran, not the way of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

You are a fake, a liar, and a hypocrite. And you condone and promote violence against innocent people. Yes, Islam has been hijacked by your ilk ... which is what this article suggests.

Naqshbandi writes <<< The hadith were also written down or memorised by various companions and used as a second source from the very beginning of Islam >>>

There is no comparison between the hadith and the Quran. The hadith did not form part of the life of first century Muslims, its content grew with every succeeding generation, in fact first century Muslims including Umar and Ali prohibited anyone from spewing hadith or any other thing in the name of the prophet other than the Quran. Hadith factories got so much in vogue that the collectors had to throw out most of those in circulation, and the rest that survive are heavily influenced by Judeo-Christian traditions and are much against the Quran, and of course unlike the Quran contradictions are widespread in them. Here is an article on hadith, unlike this dimwit author of this article, Mr. Baig, I have done actual research on it. He on the other hand can only throw out names of ``no name`` researchers that make zero logical sense.

Sattar,

First of all, I do not share your faith, period. I keep raising the level of awareness among people at chowk that Islam and Quadianism are two diametrically opposed religions. They are anathema to each other. I believe that these religions cannot co-exist unlike every other religion in the world that can coexist with Islam.

I find it particularly hurtful when people outside of Islam equate Quadianism with Islam or even consider it an offshoot of Islam. It is their ignorance and and ignorance not only effects others adversely but more than anything else it effects the ignorant himself.

At this auspicious event of Ramadan, I once again extend my hand to you and invite you towards your salvation. Reject falshood of Quadianism which human mind does not accept and which contrdicts the message of Islam. Come back to the righteousway that Holy Prophet Mohammad Ibn Abdullah (pbuh) have paved for the mankind. This is the only way.

Re: # 153

Questions and plenty of them
1. Is this some new conspiracy by the poodle elites of India and pakistan?
2. Is solar electricity allowed? Is it really possible to control Djinns? Are you a fakir on ganja?
3. Would the macacas bug these tubelights and thereby make Pakistan and the Ummah vulnerable to macaca invasion?
4. Who would scrutinise these tubelights and make sure that they donot have secret cameras in them? And further make sure that these videos of chaste muslim women not appaear on YouTube? Apart from this taking photographs and video is haram!

plenty of questions, okla99. Maybe you should be called macaca_from_okhla_69!

zeemax (#132),

Your points about “Muslim haters” may very well reflect your own complexes.

- Muslims should be united in compassion and intelligence, not in stupidity and mindless violence. I hope that addresses your concern about Muslim unity.

- “Muslim militancy against oppression” is a loaded term. There is a right time and manner to retaliate, and then there is a wrong time and manner to retaliate. Supporting mindless violence is stupidity … not Islam.

Quran even suggests migration when one is coerced too much in his land. Does that make Quran an unIslamic book?

- “Muslim norms” are fine … as long as they are sensible things supported by Quran. Offering namaz during a flight on a prayer-rug spread out between the aisles … is not Muslim-behavior … but sheer idiocy and arrogance.

- Muslim nations vs. anglos … point made.

- As for ridiculing Muslim schools of thought, your own mullahs have engaged in vicious propaganda and violence against Ahmadi-Muslims. What does this say about present-day Muslim leadership?

This post is addressed to a lot of chowkies,

Let us identify 50 poor electricityless villages in Pakistan & India each. Zeemax & Harish_hyd can take this responsibility.

Let the Indian chowkies contribute to the cost of 1 solar tubelight in each of the 50 Pak Muslim villages. Simultaneoulsly, let the Pak chowkies contribute to the cost of 1 solar tubelight in each of the 100 Indian Hindu villages.

The total project cost for 100 solar tubelights would not be more than 10000 USD. Maybe cheaper, if some chowkies can help with their contacts.

But, would we be willing to help each other??? Even though we would be, in reality, helping our own countrymen.

Or maybe I`m a dreamer...