Musharraf’s Coup - Seven Years Later

masadi suffers from America Is Doomed Syndrome(AIDS for short)...It`s just a matter of time before the failure of America to roll over and die causes his head to explode..

George Galloway: The mujahid of BritainBring on the nails for for the coffin of Westernism.

(A)......``But where will the slaves go?``

(B)..........``Oh they! they always adjust. They will be slaving for their new masters--in the new world order.``

For a thousand years ``it`` pickled well and yet its not so straightened
The time has come to hammer it hard to make it thin, and flattened
....................... echoboom

Dear all,

This freaking racist vibrating mullah-o-crat masadi`s constant anti-America hate posts is not what America is all about. No one should give this bigot a dime`s worth of credence. This person is government cheese eater and he thinks he some sort of an intellectual.

Those who are reading his post and who have never been to the US should avoid reading this person`s hateful diatribe. He is totally insane, a fanatic Islamist Jihadist, and should be extricated from the society of humanity for the betterment of all civilized nations.

Respectfully submitted,

Re: # 85 by masadi:

``Therefore basic need provision in the form of education, health and infrastructure should be done by the feds, if they want to make use of the local `mullah` networks that would be fine and dandy but the mullah is just as much in need of education and enlightenment as the masses, that is where the role of the Quran is indispensible in Muslim societies.``

Letting the fed. take care of education and health at the local level is not fine by me. A substantial part of the taxes have to be pumped back to the local level. How it is to be spent there is the responsibility of the locals. And yes, if there is a fight over resource allocation at the local level then so be it. If the locals decide to divert all resources to obscure education and pre-historic medicine so be it. A liberal`s job, again at the local level, would be to particiapte in this resource allocation.

Educating and enlighting locals could be an important component in this process of resource allocation. If, in this, the role of the Quran is indispensible in Muslim localities then so be it. I understand that, like other reforms, this won`t be easy. Knowing the Quran is half the job, being able to translate it to the locals by cutting through local myths and highlighting concerns is the other half. The latter half is by far the more difficult. In this process the local mullah may offer support or opposition. It would be wrong to assume that all of them would be in opposition.

#88 by ZahraJ on October 14, 2006 7:09pm PT


KABIRWALA, Pakistan — Pursuing justice is not easy for a woman in Pakistan, not if the crime is rape. Ghazala Shaheen knows.

I did not read the entire article, but if Musharraf was able to control the following inhuman and barbaric practice during his tenure then I guess no one would have remembered the romantic coup. Unfortunately, he cannot fight with uncivilized customs, sick mentalities and/or barbaric ways of dealing with women`s rights. All the power show fails when it comes to real action in improving the social fabric of the country. All the machismo goes down the drain. No doubt everyone still talks about the ``coup``. The world will keep on remembering Pakistan as a chaotic land with little or no emphasis on the value of human life(women, to be precise). Interestingly, this article was on the same page in the NY Times, where Mr. Yonus`s credentials and accomplishments were covered. Both east and west pakistan were kind of placed side by side. It was ironic to read the fate of an educated but poor woman in Pakistan and the lifestyle changes among the beggars in Bangladesh after joing Mr. Younus`s circle. Sad, very sad!

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Vendetta Rapes Continue as Pakistan Resists Change

October 14, 2006
Vendetta Rapes Continue as Pakistan Resists Change
By SALMAN MASOOD
KABIRWALA, Pakistan — Pursuing justice is not easy for a woman in Pakistan, not if the crime is rape. Ghazala Shaheen knows.

Two years ago, relatives say, an uncle eloped with a woman from a higher social caste. The revenge by the woman’s family was the rape of Ms. Shaheen, she and relatives charge, after a gang of men raided her father’s home and abducted her and her mother in late August.

It is not uncommon in Pakistan for women to suffer callous vendettas for the wrongdoings of their male relatives. That was the case for Ms. Shaheen, a 24-year-old from a relatively poor family who had nonetheless managed to earn a master’s degree in education. She says she wants to be a teacher.

Under what are known as the Hudood laws in Pakistan, a woman must produce four witnesses to prove rape. A failure to do so can result in her becoming a victim twice over, and being charged for adultery. The stigma alone is enough to keep many women from trying to bring their attackers to justice.

Human rights advocates have repeatedly called for the repeal of the Hudood laws, which were enacted by the country’s last military dictator, Gen. Zia ul Haq, in 1979.

President Pervez Musharraf has vowed to introduce amendments to the laws, but critics say his efforts have been halfhearted. Under pressure from hard-line clerics, Mr. Musharraf’s government delayed passage of a proposed law in September that would have allowed rape to be tried in civil courts, where a rape victim needs only to provide a medical witness and other evidence.

In 2002, the case of Mukhtar Mai became a cause célèbre of human rights advocates after she was ordered gang raped by a village council to avenge her brother’s supposed misconduct. She has since become an international figure, praised worldwide for her courage to talk against the crime and her legal struggle to bring the culprits to justice.

Despite the outcry, lesser-known cases, like Ms. Shaheen’s, continue to emerge with regularity as the laws go unchanged.

Ms. Shaheen recounted her ordeal at an uncle’s home in Kabirwala, a dusty farming town in the southern part of Punjab Province. It was not far from where she says more than a dozen men on Aug. 25 forced their way into the house owned by her father, who is a retired military police officer.

Some of the attackers were wearing police uniforms, Ms. Shaheen said. “ ‘Pick up the women,’ they shouted,” she said. “They dragged me and my mother and put us on two motorbikes.”

Both of them were told they were being taken to the police station in connection with Ms. Shaheen’s uncle. “But we soon found out that we were kidnapped,” she said.

The abductors held them for 11 days. Both said they were beaten.

“I was raped by two men,” said Ms. Shaheen, with moist eyes ringed by dark circles. One of her rapists, she said, was Nazar Mirali, from the rival clan. She said she did not know the other one.

“I pleaded,” she said. “I implored, but they did not listen to me.”

Mr. Mirali was arrested and could not be found for comment. He and another man, who was not identified, were named in the complaint filed by Ms. Shaheen on Sept. 26. Word of Ms. Shaheen’s abduction spread throughout the area and neighboring Multan, the largest city in southern Punjab.

On Sept. 2, human rights advocates, with Ms. Mai, called a rally in Kabirwala to demand the arrest of the accused.

Two days later, both Ms. Shaheen and her mother were recovered by the police from Jhang, a neighboring district, after a tip from someone in the area, said Abdul Rashid, a cousin of Ms. Shaheen.

Ms. Shaheen said that evening at the police station that she had been threatened and harassed to keep silent about the ordeal by her attackers. A police official, too, told her not to mention rape, she said, and the police logged the case only as a kidnapping. “I was frightened. They threatened they would kill my father,” Ms. Shaheen said, referring to the Miralis, who are a relatively well-connected family in the area.

Ms. Shaheen said she suffered in silence for more than a week but then gathered courage to come forward. She went for her medical checkup.

“Yes, I confirmed in my medical report about rape,” said Dr. Saima Iftikhar, the medical officer at District Hospital Kabirwala who examined her.

Since then, Ms. Shaheen’s ambitions have been shattered, and it is she who suffers scorn for the rape. She says she feels helpless. The school where she was to teach has refused to accept her.

“They said they can’t accept me as it is a matter of their repute now,” Ms. Shaheen said.

Human Rights advocates have criticized the police. They say the police have been slow to move against the accused under pressure from high-level politicians.

“Have they collected all the evidence? Have they raided the houses of all the accused?” said Rashid Rehman, an official with the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan, an independent body, which has taken up the case.

On Sept. 26, Ms. Shaheen along with Mr. Rehman submitted another application to the police and presented a copy of the medical report confirming rape.

Thirteen of the 14 men accused of taking part in the abduction are in hiding, police officials say.

“We have apprehended the main accused,” said Shahid Hanif, the district police chief of Khanewal, who seemed exasperated by the case.

“No one is happy with police,” he said. “What else does she expect us to do? We recovered her. We have arrested the man accused. Does she expect us to kill him? We can’t do that.”

bulleya writes <<< .........I still feel relatively comfortable driving into America..........Because I know that while some racist guy may offend me, or I may be picked up by some policy of Bush........In the end, I will get justice (though this is somewhat reducing now, due to Bush)...... >>>

The state of `justice` in America, a country with the highest per capita rate of incarceration any where in the world, where most of those incarcerated belong to the lower socio-economic classes, fully one third of the young men of a minority group have been labelled criminals and been through the criminal justice system, where driving with a certain skin color is a crime, may belonging to a certain race automatically puts you under suspicion of crime, cannot be held up as `achievement`.

It is an Ad Hominem argument to state that since many on Chowk enjoy the luxury of the air conditioner therefore their ideas amount to nothing and since their standard of living might be adversely affected by a `revolution` they will never cause it. This is an overgeneralization based on zero research. Surveys in the US reveal that people are willing to pay a greater percentage of their incomes in taxes were health care and other social services provided by the government. Greater standards of living will raise the societal standards of all unless you are happy running the air conditioner surrounded by a ghetto and its resulting related negatives including the form of government that will result as a consequence.

#83 by echoboom on October 14, 2006 5:16pm PT

Did you hear about Mohd. Yunis gladly accepting the Nobel peace prize and not thrashing it, like YOU said a good muslims would do....

GT writes <<< Hence, to me the way out seems to be the empowerment of the local maulvi at the grassroot level. In other words one needs grassroot democracy. >>>

The local maulvi has authority at the extreme grassroots level because the government is either non existant or missing from the lives of those ordinary people. The only time they encounter the government is not in the form of social services but in the form of the danda and the gun. I am against private solutions to public problems because private solutions are not only narrow in scale but are easily coopted by the powers that be. Therefore basic need provision in the form of education, health and infrastructure should be done by the feds, if they want to make use of the local `mullah` networks that would be fine and dandy but the mullah is just as much in need of education and enlightenment as the masses, that is where the role of the Quran is indispensible in Muslim societies.

Re: # 65

The ``doctrine of necessity`` reframed, rehashed and re-stated for the poor Pakistanis. I know that the `moderates` who agree with Mr. Hoodbhoy are intelligent enough to sweep these arguments about ``there-is-no-other-alternative-to-the-current-leader`` . India has passed through these fear rousers through every election and we have had enough of alternatives emerging with broad consensus on common minimum programs and policies. What Pakistan needs is a LONG period of stable democracy minus mullahs in the politics and letting democratic processes develop at the grass roots.

This is the ONLY alternative that would ensure that Pakistan moves to the path of modernity and all this talk about the special needs to re-tailor western democracy to accomodate military or mullahs in Pakistan`s ``enlightened`` or ``indeginous-democracy`` is pure nonsense and a recipie for further disaster.

It was worth watching how the U.S , and its ghulaam South Korea, were humiliated in the U.N.
Looks like the nails in the coffins are being brought in everyday.

Sanctions etc will do Zilch for the real Korea(North)...as compared the Ghulam Karzai version of Korea (south one).

U.S can never ever win against those who are unwilling to sell themselves for an invitation to the White House.

The new Japanese P.M not visiting U.S to do the Salaams to U.S immediately after assuming Office ( like our bhangees) and his determination to builsd the Japanese army again has not gone un-noticed even in the Gangster-land.

#71 by Mantolives on October 14, 2006 6:17am PT


better than a girl being given canadian visa facilitation services because she graduated, wouldn`t you say?

SR #26.......Yes, freedom from the, ``state`` is the biggest desire and problem of the average Pakistani voter..........Unfortunately, one rarely sees that being disussed on this site.......The reason is that nearly everyone on this site (including me and you and Hoodbhoy) are beneficiries of the state.....We are the state......We have connections in the State........We are the benficiries of a system, which is fueled by the poor man and woman and has propelled us to first world personal standards.......

Thus we don`t want the state dismembered.....As we will be the losers.....We just want the state to be morphed into where we feel socially comfortable.....some want a secular state, some want a religious one, while some a communist one etc.........

This is why I have always felt that if there is a revolution of some sort in Pakistan, which many of this site want, everyone will come after all of us living in air-conditioned houses in Islamabad and Lahore and Karachi..........We will not be leading the revolution.......We will be its targets.........

This is also why, I feel, we, on Chowk, can never provide a solution for Pakistan......We, ourselves, are the problem.......At the very least, we belong to that part of the society, which is the problem......A revolution in Pakistan that dismembers the state, will lower our living standards and clout, while it will raise that of the poor......

At the same time, I am not sure how the current state system will be dismantled in Pakistan.........I do not see any vehicle for doing so......Upper class feudal secular parties have dominated and empowered the state.....Middle class MQM and military have dominated and empowered it.........And lower-class maulvis have done the same.......Who is left?........Who will bell the cat?.........

The greatest achievement of Western society, I have now become slowly convinced, is not laissez faire economics, nor universal education or democracy.........It is the creation of a judicial system, which acts as a huge check on dominance of th state by powerful groups at the expense of the common man...........I am not sure how this was done, but it is one hell of an achievement.........I still feel relatively comfortable driving into America..........Because I know that while some racist guy may offend me, or I may be picked up by some policy of Bush........In the end, I will get justice (though this is somewhat reducing now, due to Bush)......

Can I say the same about my country of birth - Pakistan........i have never needed to because, in most cases, I am part of the well-off who make up the state........However, what about the poor laborer and the poor famer......the real Pakistanis........Are they safer in Pakistan from the state or in the West?.........This is why they all migrate out....

Due to this, arguments on secularism, Islam and this and that are relatively irrelevant.......people will get exploited by a secular state as much as by a religious one, and vice-versa.........What is, infact, needed is protection from the state itself.......Not necessarily the type of state........

This connects directly to ``Musharraf in the catbird seat``

This has been languishing on unplugged.
From Malangbaba`s blog.

A madressa student gives it real good to a Ba Ba Blacksheep in Uniform. Worth watching!
This belongs here

and then there is this anal cyst....the anglo-Uungleed PhoodBhoy

Re: # 71

your comments are highly amusing..... while the hindus are marrying hills and trees.... good ol muslims are keeping the tradition of their prophet alive.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5541006

allah-o-akbar.