Re: # 139

Zahra:

After posting on this board I had two questions that came to my mind, and wanted to ask Hamidm and Tahmad Sahib. You partly answered them, you probably read my mind. Still here is the question for these two gentlemen.

``Can a muslim discover himself or herself, and the inner logic without any strings of religious strings?``

``Is it possible to remain muslim when he or she does such examination, or runs the risk of being apostate?``

There indeed are people, who just cannot do it. This is clearly visible from the postings of many Hindus and Parsi here.

This self discovery has allowed Christians, Jewish, Buddhists and some Hindus, Sikhs to see beyond and acquire greater perspectives and knowledge. These societies have either acquired or acquiring great knowledge to the benefit and develop technologies, to build or are building nation-states / economic regions (EU, ASEAN etc.).

Your Korean friends indeed have church in their personal non-work lives. Just as I know many friends and even ex employees whom I have observed very closely. Their religion was confined to themeselves when they went to church or for any community (may even be family) functions.

For example, N. Korean nuclear issue is not about Buddhist Bomb.

Even if the west tries, Koreans will just laugh it out, and eliminate it. Whereas, a caricature cartoon of Mohammad invoked protest all over the world. That Danish guy indeed became overnight millionaire. Lesser known Salman Rushdie suddenly became a class in himself. Why?

On the other hand no Kim Il Jong will ever become millionaire. I am not trivializing anyone`s pain. I think, that better solutions are found when religions are limited to the personal space. As these are personal belief systems, and by definition emotional. These do fan great passions, and soon people fail to see rationally and logically.

This is where I see Yasser making sense that religious card once played caused a wrong solution to be implemented.

Now, who played it first and last, Jinnah or Gandhi may go in the history as a questions with more than one answers, whether these are Yasser`s answers or Sadhna`s answers. Hopefully, over a period of time, just as the British and the Americans can ignore or laugh now about ``No taxation without representation.``, people from South Asia may be able to do it 200 years from now. That is only realistic possibility for peace, everything else does not terminate, and is infinite. Fortunately, time is on the side of such thinking.

Anil

Arju mian...

Statistics show it is better to be considered a Non-Muslim in Pakistan than be a Muslim in India...

Kiya samjhay?

Re: # 121

Hmm, I am sorry but this is too easy...

---

Historic Shiv Mandir makes way for a Pir

Historic Shiv Mandir makes way for a Pir

Butchers encroach upon Hindu compound and bully residents into leaving the place while govt remains silent

By Aroosa Masroor Khan

KARACHI: “We have had enough. We cannot put up with this discrimination and harassment anymore,” cry Hindu residents of the century-old Pawandas compound, situated in Lyari town.

The compound has a historic Shiv Mandir on its premises but this has been taken over by a self-styled Pir, whose followers claim that the Mandir was a mosque before.

They have scraped tiles of Hindu deities in order to “cleanse” the room while the Hindus have been forced to offer their prayers in a makeshift room on another side of the compound.

If that was not enough trouble, other parts of the compound have been taken over by a clan of butchers who now slaughter animals on the premises.

The butchers are intent on taking control of this compound. So far, they have forcibly evicted 24 families despite the official allotment of the compound to the Hindu families by the Sindh government under the Evacuee Property Act 1957.

The Hindus say that they are Pakistani first and Hindu later. Some of them returned to Pakistan within months of migrating to India in 1947 because they said they could not settle there. Now they question their decision as the government continues to ignore their plight.

But they say they will not give up without a fight. In reaction to a recent rape incident with one of the daughters of a senior Hindu priest on the premises of the compound, the enraged members decided to take a stance against the perpetrators. But this has had its consequences.

The butchers have long been involved in misusing the premises and disrupting the rituals and activities of the Hindu residents.

“Unconcerned with the hygienic conditions of a residential area, the butchers continue to slaughter animals within the compound, including cows, which we find particularly disturbing,” Buddhiyaram Maheshwary, a resident of the compound told The News.

Maheshwary says that after the takeover of the Shiv temple, he now performs his religious rituals in what is now the replacement to the older temple, a small room within the compound. Measuring barely 8 feet by 6 feet, the replacement temple does not have room for more than two people to worship at a time.

“It is impossible to perform pooja (prayers) in congregation in such a small space which is why we are limited to saying our daily prayers at home. We cannot celebrate our religious festivals freely either and have to resort to Mandirs situated in other parts of the city,” said another resident, Mulbai.

The followers of the self-styled Pir, Syed Hussain Mian Bukhari, claim that the temple has been a Muslim place of worship for over 50 years.

“Our Pir Sahab has been practicing religion for decades now. He is the descendant of the late Syed Abbas Mian Bukhari who was quite well known,” said one Bilquis Bano, who also lives in the compound.

Attempts have been made to erase all memories of the original Shiv Mandir. Tiles depicting Hindu deities have been scraped. But some tiles are still visible and this belies the claim of the place being a Muslim place of worship.

When confronted with this fact, Syed Hussain himself confessed to this correspondent that the large room was indeed a temple initially that has been illegally taken over by the Muslims after claiming they had taken permission from the Evacuee Board. “We are ready to vacate the area, if the government guarantees our habitation elsewhere,” he added helpfully.

Revealing the history of the place under dispute, Buddhiyaram told The News that before partition the compound consisted of several small houses that were used as Ashrams by different visitors.

Following independence, around 100 Hindu families that resided in the compound migrated to India. Most of them, however, returned shortly after because they were unable to settle there.

“My family was one of the 50 families who returned,” said Buddhiyaram adding, “even today I do not want to leave this country for I am a Pakistani first and a Hindu later. All we are asking for is our due right to practice our religion and faith that even the constitution guarantees.”

Bobby Maheswary, son of Buddhiyaram Maheswary, is a local Union Council member elected on a minority seat. He says that apart from the encroachment, the slaughtering of animals on the premises is a deplorable act.

“It is not just the foul smell of blood. The internal organs of the animals lie exposed everywhere and it is really disgusting and insulting for us Hindus to walk past them,” says Mulbai.

Lawyer Amarnath Motumal, who is also the president of Hindu Panchayat Karachi Division and a council member of the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan, said that cows are tied and slaughtered in the open — an act that disturbs the entire adjacent neighbourhood.

But how can a slaughterhouse be run within a residential premises, ask the original residents. “The slaughterhouse also has some rules to follow and maintain a hygienic atmosphere. They are not only insulting the minority settlements but are also violating the rules of the government,” complained one elderly woman.

Bobby Maheswary also said that a team of vets was recently called for inspection so that the place could be formalized as a slaughterhouse. These vets refused to give their approval.

Seventy-year-old Dawood, who runs a decoration business in the locality, claims that he is trying to settle the dispute.

He says he has been witness to the situation for the past 32 years and blames the authorities for encouraging encroachment in the compound.

The Baghdadi police themselves help the Muslim land grabbers by forcing the Hindu residents to sign on the residential document in exchange for a very little amount, which subsequently gives them the right to use the land,” he discloses.

Using his position as a council member, Bobby said he has made several complaints to higher authorities, including the local area police, Town Nazim and Chief Minister of Sindh, about the unauthorized construction of houses and forced eviction of his community members.

He has also filed a complaint with the Ministry of Health but no action has been taken to date. “Each official blames the other and shifts responsibility. I don’t know where to go. I feel really helpless,” said the frustrated young man.

Bobby also suffered personal trauma recently for his attempts to get justice. Both he and his wife were recently attacked and abused verbally by some members of the butcher clan because he filed a formal complaint.

“My wife who is pregnant was totally shaken. I cannot afford to risk her or my child’s life at the moment so to avoid further complications I will not pursue the case until my wife delivers,” says Bobby now.

So much is the harassment in this small compound that some mothers refrain from sending their children outside to play as they are harassed by Muslim children.

“They use swear words and for a single mistake a Hindu makes, they abuse our entire cast. That is quite offending.”

While most were forcefully asked to vacate the compound, some families willingly left to avoid further harassment. This is what the butcher clan wants.

Karachi’s Hindu community is approximately 1.5 million and most who reside here belong to the scheduled castes. “This community is very scared of fighting for their rights and different quarters have been taking advantage of their vulnerability,” said lawyer Motumal.

The question now remains as to who will win this battle for control of the compound. Many ask whether the government will look the other way as a revered Hindu place of worship is desecrated and their members keep being provoked by a clan of butchers.

#118 by Mantolives on October 15, 2006 9:11am PT


Indian Muslims (including Ahmadis)


You do realize that it`s against the LAW in the land of the pure to include ahmedis like yourself with allah`s homies...you don`t want to go to jail now, do you?

Dear friend,

For all your refrains about my third rate bachelors degree, your personal attacks etc... you are the poor expatriate away from your ``utopia`` while I am doing well in my own country.
Still... one wonders why there aren`t any Nobel Prize winners amongst Indian Muslims (including Ahmadis)... when there is one each for the equivalent in Pakistan and Bangladesh?

YLH Munna #107

Zeemax, others...
Though many Bangladeshis would not admit it... but Muhammad Younis would not have a ghost of a chance of winning a Nobel Prize in a United India...
The two states based on the partition of 1947 .... and the Lahore Resolution... Pakistan and Bangaldesh have each produced one Nobel prize winner...
How many Indian Muslims or Ahmadis won Nobel Prizes... despite Sadna`s fudged inconclusive statistics?

You are absolutely right this time. Partition of 1947 opened plethora of opportunities for Muslims in Pakistan`s. Now any uneducated moron can become Pakistani president or prime minister. Partition has permitted uneducated idiots to become vice-chancellors, and head educational bosies in Pakistan. In India they would have to earn PhDs to become presidents (Dr Zakir Hussain, Dr Fakhruddin Ali Ahmed, Dr Kalam!!).

With your third rate bachelor degree, you would have nothing more than a clerk in India, while in Pakistan you can claim to be ``head of department of Economics``. You are absolutely right. Manto munna lage raho!!

Re: # 117

Friend,

The neutered Besharamjee Buddhonjee Effonjee from Pakistan spake......ignore him Or give him back that he`s a 2nd class citizen of a non-halal republic (country of hybrids i.e mix between maruaders and natives, who pose themselves as pure arab slaves).

He`s stateless and lives-off the loaves and crumbs of the neutered republic.....(I mean castrated by the US from being masculine).

His engineering degree from Pureland is better than our PUC. OTOH, our IITs are ranked 3rd best Tech Unis in the world. As for poverty they are no less......equally paupered. For proof read his Karachi newspaper like Dawn......the whole city floats-off the sewage .....which is worse than living in slums. Isnt it?

Let him compare his pureland with China or India with Pureland.

Like his masters, this slave 2nd class citizen is a good canine.....faithfull. Cant agree more.

Re: # 117 by friend on October 15, 2006 9:03am PT

Dear Friend:

Where have you been residing? On some slums near mumbai? or squatting on railroad tracks? Indian educational system is just as bogus as India herself. Quality of idiots being graduated from your engineering colleges for those code coolies` jobs are now world renowned. Recently, all major international magazines are thumbing down on India and its so-called English education. Financial Times recently reported that Bangalore is reverting back to local languages, and the Economist suggested that only 10% of India`s engineering graduates are capable to working in an international corporation.

Indians can only go back to squatting on railroad tracks, before madman stammerer MM does not put you guys in some Enterprise Zone to ask for some more FDI. In 2005, China gets over $80B and the ugly stupid hindoo nation get $5B. So much for your nation being progressive and enlightened.

Respectfully submitted,

General Musharraf`s gloriously illegitimate 7 years can be summed up with one couplet from Bahadur Shah Zafar`s ghazal -- ``do arzoo maiN kut gaye -- paanch intezzaar maiN``.

#103 by masadi on October 14, 2006 11:57pm PT

It`ll help more than anything coming out of lulu.com..The guy has actually made a difference in the lives of people..what have you done for allah`s homies lately?

i couldnt understand the whole story since musharaf took the dictatorship of pakistan .... i cannt understand where pakistan is going ..... what does musharaf want what does baynazir and nawazsharif want ...... none of them is clear ........... even musharaf doesnt know what does he want ....... in his book ........... ``In The Line Of Fire`` he has described somthing else has done something else....... and i believe ..... the decision he took ...... were never his decision

#110 by echoboom

Thanks but you forgot ......... ``aaaaaaaaaaaakh ...........Thoooooooooooooooo`` .. LoL

Powerful stuff indeed
By a shareef & caring American
http://www.politicalgateway.com/main/columns/read.html?col=661

---

Gangster Nation: the Bush Administraton Deconstructs America

Comments? andymart20@aol.com

For Webmasters rss 2.0