Muslims ‘Unveiled’

Zee: re. #17
The talibaan did a lot initially to bring about stability in war-ravaged Afghanistan--which is why they were welcomed with open arms. khair....
I know the talibaan are `simple` people. But simple people can also easily go on ego trips. Especially when the checks and balances to check their power-inflated egos are absent.
I am not clear on how banning female education, forcing them to observe the strictest of pardah, or prohibiting them from working in ANY field all contribute(d) towards ``regimenting society in a disciplined way.`` -- let alone the question of what any of this had to do with Islam.

Perhaps you can elaborate a little.

Jack Straw was 100% right when he complained about talking to two mascarad eyes of a ghostly apparition peering thru the Halloween wardrobe wrapped around the figure -- with no body -- floating in the room.

I am glad Jack wasn`t mortally afraid of the ghosts -- to speak out publicly.

Boorish Muslims have made a laughing stock of themselves and the whole community wherever they have gone -- I wish Allah would give them some sense of propriety in dress -- if not in demeanor -- if not in the native country -- at least in foreign civilized company -- and not put us all to shame and embarrassment in calling us Muslims.

#52 by iron_mask

As you wish .... but I stated my point. You can argue round and round, doesn`t change anything.

zeemax perhaps this would answer your question and expand on your answer

you can check this out
(a)http://www.able2know.com/forums/about51168.html
(b)http://www.bartleby.com/65/tu/Turkey.html
(c)http://worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/eu.htm

below is taken from (a)

One could say, as Merry Andrew does, Turkey is either in Europe and Asia.

The most part of Turkey is Anatolia and Anatolia is Minor Asia. But there is a part of Turkey in the European side of the Bosphor.

The problem arises when we ask this question : to which continent Turkish see themselves attached?

Turkish Europeans seems attached to Europe and Anatolians to Asia.

With all the political nuances that go with that.

very well written.
`The niqab is not mandatory according to traditional Islamic scholarship and by insisting on it, a minority of Muslims are doing themselves and Islam in Britain a disservice. I also think that any items of clothing which make you stand out from the mainstream should be avoided. Islamic dress code is all about modesty--a long skirt and a jumper can, with a headscarf, (for women) or traditional British trousers and blazer (for men) satisfy the religious requirements. All it requires is some application of common sense``
I fully agree with you.The teacher must have common sense of not hidding her mouth, how can students comprehend her teaching.

Re: # 41 Naqshbandi,

I have a slightly different opinion. I think about 95% of the Muslim immigrant (or second or third generation ) women who dress conservatively in West do it because they are convinced that they are obeying the commands of Prophet and Allah. In this society where a child can call the police on his parents just for smacking him, no one can force other what to wear. I personally know many many liberal families whose kids were totally into Western lifestyle, changed overnight after 9/11. The very people who would only attend eid prayers twice a year now wiggle like fish out of water when they see that they have to miss one single prayer for some reason.

See the underlying logic working here. As long as the attitude of society towards their system of values was accepting or indiffernet they had a very liberal attitude towards their own value system but just as when they felt it threatened they became more steadfast and unbending.

So by imposing such unreasonable demand upon Muslims, as imposing a dress code as a state policy upon them would further make Muslims come to conclusion that they are now living in Dar-al-Harb where they are being restricted from fulfilling their obligations towards their religion. This policy will thus enforce aparthied from not only the state but also from Muslims as a defence mechanism. Please try to understand the moves that the forces of confederate evil are trying to move against Muslims. Their objective is to creat a mindset where everybody would only see their surrounding through a World vs. Muslim paradigm; and frankly they are winning. The only defence that Muslims have is to remain steadfast to face this test. If we give up our values then they win. Isn`t that what they want?

Zeemax:46
Thanks.
Naqshbandi sahib said it.

Naqshbandi:41

Let me categorically say you are wrong.

It is the negro calling another negro calling Nigger syndrome..or the Paki calling another Paki syndrome. ..or a Macaca calling another one Macaca syndrome.

Jack Straw & Reid are NOt interested in Islam or Muslims..period. If they were they would have approached the sujbect through the Muslim Council of Britain and/or so may muslim Members of Parliament and city councillors & mayors..and If Allah is my witness there is no shortage of those. Even Galloway, this being a non-partisan issue, would have ben a great ``insider``.

No Janaab Naqshbandi! There is a PATTERN here of deliberate, nasty and evil provocation. JacK Straw & Reid are POLITICIANS and their aim is to pre-empt BNA on one hand in the muslim-hate-industry & Respect-party in the muslim-love-industry.

The Cartoons--the Pope--the German Theatre--the cartoon Documentary; one after another
Like GHulaam Quadir Rohilla Taimoori Blood-test being taken to determine the ghairat & Hammayat Index sacrificed at the altar of materialism & comfortism.

There is only ONE way to live & that is to make life UNCOMFORTABLE for ones self & the OTHER as well..and then let the other sue for peace..& YOU give them concessions.

See you not the True Koreans & Iranians dragging these dogs, by a snout-ring & long rope, through Maint Street, Earth?


Nobody Power has ever won against those who are willing to die for their Faith.

Re: # 36

Urstruly, I would agree with you in principle that this is a good maxim in life (the last para of your interact). Unfortunately, this is not valid now - Asif Naqshabandi has mentioned the reasons. In the eyes of the world Islam is being equated to unreasonableness, we could argue this, but it dont matter a whit.

What is required is for the muslims at large, to show the world that they are a reasonable set of people. How this is to be done, is the issue here. The debate opened by the Brits, is an opening which the muslims should grab and engage in constructively. (they could have taken on a more agressive tone, but this has not happened, and I donot think it will happen in the near future)

So far what I have seen in the UK is this, it is the white anglo-saxons who are bebating the issue standing on both sides of the argument. Not a single muslim has joined in the debate. What you see, and unfortunately always seem to be the case, is knee-jerk reactions and extreme defensiveness on one side, and at the other end the sort of triumphalism of the Echoboom kind. Neither of which yields results in the long run.

If you would permit to encapsulate the debate into a few words it is this, perhaps it is very glib, - Wear religion on Sleeve or keep it in your mind! That is what it all boils down to. (it is not a question of visibility here - you see churches, cathedrals, temples, synagogues etc, you see people in Yashmulks, bindis, mangalsutras, wedding rings, etc - have christening ceremonies, baptisms, funeral ceremonies etc - these are all visible).

#43 by Naqshbandi

Just pointing to the irony of it. But point taken. Sorry. It`s infuriating though how some people just won`t accept facts.

Echoboom,

Awaiting your response to @40.

Re: # 19

you plonker, even if this single poll was representative, it would still leave 60% who do NOT want shariah law in the UK. That is a majority!

Zeemax, why bring in that metaphor about `bund maraona` ?-- and in Ramadan also!

a time will come when an asian man will look an english man in the eye and dispute his claim to this land.

#11

Echoboom, I hate Sir `Syed` Ahmad Khan more than you do. He was a khabis murtad and a mental slave. You cannot compare his situation though to what is happening in the UK now.

For a start, Muslims are guests here. You don`t go to your guests house and demand he do as you say! In Islam there are rules for guests to behave well. Thirdly, no one is asking Muslims to do anything against their faith. Fourthly, it is okay for those living in far away places to antagonise these people, but those living here don`t gain anything by doing so.
Fifthly, if you are dressed in such a manner that people are afraid to even approach you--how will you ever be able to talk to that person and tell him or her of the beauty of Islam?

We must stop making mountains out of molehills and seeing enemies where none exist.
E.g. When goriyaaN go to Pakistan they make an effort to dress modestly so as not to offend the locals; likewise we should do the same here.

#39 by echoboom

[ghar tak pohnachaanaa].

Point taken. I`ve been guilty of this.

``Naley anneyh kolon bund marao, naaley ohnoon ghar chhad key aao``

Not a good pursuit. No doubt.