Muslims ‘Unveiled’

aslam #213 I wish what you wrote was true. Unfortunately, in order to gain knowledge and wisdom, one needs to be open to the rest of the world. Otherwise, like the proverbial frog in the well, one develops a very narrow mind. Because visas to developed countries are now harder to get for immigrants from Pakistan as well as other muslim countries in north africa and the middle east - thanks to the mischief created by these paindoos who feel secure in their visas - youth from these countries will have fewer opportunities to come to the west than they had before. Indians on the other hand are getting more and more positions of leadership (e.g. a leading US firm, Pepsi-Cola, appointed an Indian woman as CEO recently; Mittal is the captain of the steel industry world-wide; and so on), as well as millions of other key positions in journalism, medicine, science.

And this has a reverse brain gain affect on India as these people use their skills and sophistication and capital acquired in the west within India. Pakistan will have no brains to be drained or gained - only half-brained madrassah graduates who will in ten or twenty years have forgotten about the big talk of the likes of echoboom. Even the well educated Pakistanis able to come to the west will (and already are) suffer in a thousand small ways as they find it harder to prosper, thanks to this stigma of being troublemakers attached to them.

This is the bitter fact that one day will dawn upon more and more Pakistanis as they seek to get second-tier jobs from....Indian bosses. Even now, Indians are investing in property and industry in Pakistan. Paindoos will one day forget their big talk about jihad and forget their arab-worshipping - but by then, the damage would be done.

How beautiful to see the Britoo-Baboons expressing fear about the up-coming Islamic Cantonments in London.

Now why Islamic Cantonments are bad in London, when our Bhooraa-Kalaa slaves still want to get petted & patted by their goraa Owner [`` He feeds me , hence I am``.] in Colonies & Cantonments in the Islamic Republic really confounds me!

Muslims come in color & sizes. There is a surge of blue-blood gora-muslims as well. There
are many many friends of the 2nd 3rd and even fourth generation muslims who can easily qualify to enslave Q2 and Q32`s children ( ``but they are laready learning to be slaves``..OH sorry)

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When the British ruled India they set up well-policed areas in major cities known as Cantonments. Originally temporary encampments, by the beginning of the 20th century they had become permanent garrison bases.

In the London Spectator British journalist Charles Moore remarked recently: ``It would be a grim revenge for the Raj if an Islamic cantonment were permitted to set up in our capital.``

The Islamic movement Tablighi Jamaat (proselytizing group) wants to build a mosque in East London for up to 10,000 people as part of an ``Islamic Village`` in time for the London Olympics of 2012, near the official Olympic stadium at West Ham. Tablighi Jamaat is secretive and publishes little about itself, but it is on the fundamentalist side of the Islamic spectrum and has links with Wahabism. It is based in Pakistan, where for a Muslim to convert to Christianity is a capital offense.

It is planned the Mosque and surrounding buildings will ultimately accommodate 70,000 visitors. What happens after the Olympics is another matter, but what seems on the cards is a permanent Muslim city in the heart of London -- which already has large Muslim areas and a complex of mosques in the Finsbury Park area.

Britain as a whole is already well-supplied with mosques. There were a few in the 19th and early 20th centuries. By the 1980s there were about 150 and by 1996 there were 613. Now there are well over a thousand, many of them converted Anglican churches. The Muslim website ``British Muslim Heritage`` says: ``London probably has more mosques than any other city in the Western World, save Turkey ... the modern Muslim Londoner is spoilt for choice with regard to mosques.`` There are dozens in contiguous areas like Newham, Tower Hamlets and Hackney.

Tablight Jamaat`s spokesmen have claimed it is a moderate organization. However, it has been accused by the FBI of being a recruiting ground for al Qaeda, and two of the London tube bombers, including the leader, Mohammed Sidque Khan, are believed to have attended mosques run by it. French intelligence is reported by Le Monde to have described it as an ``antechamber of fundamentalism.``


LONDON`S FAR-LEFT MAYOR KEN LIVINGSTONE says he is ``very much in favor`` of the scheme. It is fair to say that Livingstone`s entire career has been concerned with culture-war against British institutions and identity. Even Tony Blair, whose record on these matters is pretty bad, was desperately against Livingstone gaining political power in London.

Livingstone`s background is relevant here for other reasons as well. He has called Ariel Sharon a war criminal, told a BBC interviewer that it was ``wrong to brand a British Muslim boy a terrorist if he got involved in Palestinian violence against Israel`` and claimed that the ``Jewish boys in Britain`` had contributed to the ``slaughter`` of Palestinians. He was temporarily suspended from office for having taunted a Jewish journalist about Nazism.

When asked if there was a possibility he himself had Jewish blood, Livingstone replied: ``I could be a self-hater, couldn`t I?`` -- which looks like a boast that he hates Jews. Where Rome`s mayor Walter Veltroni (who began as a communist) led 10,000 Italians in a torchlight protest outside the Iranian Embassy in Rome after Iranian President Ahmadinejad called for the annihilation of Israel, Livingstone did nothing.

When Muslim Brotherhood cleric Yousuf Al-Qaradawi -- who has vilified Jews, claimed there are no civilians in Israel and reportedly said of the London tube bombings: ``I consider this type of martyrdom operation as an evidence of God`s justice`` -- visited London, Livingstone (against the advice of moderate Muslim leaders) received him as a personal guest, stating: ``Here is the force that we need to engage with if we are to actually get a dialogue.`` When the black chairman of the British Commission for racial equality, Trevor Phillips, said he was concerned about the failures of multiculturalism, Livingstone jeered that he expected Phillips soon to join the racist British National Party.

To round out one`s picture of the man and what he wants for the future of Britain and its identity and culture, Livingstone has called for the removal of two statues of 19th century military heroes, Sir Henry Havelock and Sir Charles Napier, from Trafalgar Square, allegedly because no one knows who they are. (Napier should be known to feminists at least. In India he put an end to suttee. Told that burning widows was a ``traditional custom,`` Napier responded: ``We also have a custom: when men burn women alive, we hang them.``) Livingstone has told schoolchildren that President George Bush is ``everything repellent in politics...venal...corrupt`` and expressed sympathy for the IRA.

Hence, Livingstone`s support for the mosque-complex project may be seen as a significant to the culture-war against the fabric and structure of Britain`s and the Anglosphere`s traditions, values and history.


THE MOSQUE IS INTENDED TO BE A NEW ``Islamic Landmark`` in Britain. Comparable in size to Saint Paul`s Cathedral, it will dominate a great area of the London skyline and be massively illuminated at night. One way of putting this in perspective is to ask what the chances are of establishing a cathedral or synagogue with accommodation around for 70,000 Christians or Jews in Saudi Arabia. The first major London mosque was built in 1944 with a grant from the British Government in return for an Anglican cathedral being built in Cairo, where there was then a British Army. Would that happen in any Muslim country now?

It matters much in one sense whether the builders of this new ``cantonment`` have extremist associations or not, though one need not be too paranoid to imagine that it could create a vast haven and training area for extremists and no-go areas for everyone else including police (plans to give police powers to close mosques used by extremists were quietly dropped by the impotent Home Office last December). More importantly it would be a huge step further in incorporating part of the historic heart of Britain into the House of Islam, a process which according to Muslim teaching is irreversible.

According to the Daily Mail of August 7, almost a quarter of British Muslims -- 370,000 of 1.6 million -- believe the 7/7 the London bombings were justified because of British support for the war on terror. This is almost double a previous figure of 13%. A third of Muslims said they disapproved of the freedoms allowed in Britain and would rather live under Sharia Law, and 45% believed the Jews were behind 9/11.

Following Pope Benedict`s controversial lecture the website Little Green Footballs published pictures of Muslims outside Westminster Cathedral (London`s Catholic cathedral) waving placards including ``Islam Will Conquer Rome,`` and ``May Allah Curse the Pope`` and chanting: ``Pope Benedict you will pay, the Mujahadeen are coming your way.``

On the fifth anniversary of 9/11 the general secretary of the Muslim Council of Britain -- which the government recognizes as the leading voice of British Muslims -- Dr. Muhammad Abdul Bari, claimed that if ``demonization`` of Muslims continued, ``then Britain will have to deal with two million [sic] Muslim terrorists, 700,000 of them in London.``
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Hal G. P. Colebatch, a lawyer and author, has lectured in International Law and International Relations at Notre Dame University and Edith Cowan University in Western Australia and worked on the staff of two Australian Federal Ministers.

echo: Well said in #204! Adaab!!

PM:227
and a very good tasleemaat to you too my Saheeh Maseeh Bhai.

``Kuchh jo samjhhaa miray shikvay ko toa PM samjhha
`` Mujhh ko doazakh say nikal aanay kaa GM samjhha``..........Iqbal (parodied)

Only PM was who somewhat figured out my wail:`all`s not well``!
He thought that I was the GM, who knew his way out o` this hell

re. #228
echo: double aadaab! (sharmindagee se)

vaisey, I was about to post an addendum, one I think is quite crucial to your thesis: the irony, if you look at British society in the twentyfirst century -- and Naqshbandi would attest to this-- is that the cantonments there are fast disappearing there (and, if it pleases you, society is getting more Islamic/Christian there.)

Of course, you`re still looking for payback, aren`t ya? :)

echoboom you are way too convoluted. Your rationale and logic defies normal humans!
Go in peace, be you staright in your talk, and not forked and devious friend!

re. #230
[[echooboom...Your rationale and logic defies normal humans!]]

abay echo bhai ko iss se baRi taareef nahiN dey sakta, tu :)

taken from today`s guardian.co.uk (a question why is it that it is the others who are arguing for and against the motion here....you will not find one muslim - and in this context this paragraph is rather apt - )

the link to the article titled : If this onslaught was about Jews, I would be looking for my passport

Politicians and media have turned a debate about integration into an ugly drumbeat of hysteria against British Muslims


The majority of British Muslims could have done themselves a favour if they had found a way to show just how unrepresentative Brooks and his ilk are. How powerful it would have been if, after 7/7, hundreds of thousands of British Muslims had taken to the streets to repudiate utterly the four bombers who had killed in the name of Islam. The model might have been the 2000 Basque march in Bilbao in protest against ETA violence. Or perhaps the 1992 funeral of an assassinated anti-mafia judge in Palermo, which turned into a rally of Sicilians against the crime organisation. The slogan for the British Muslim equivalent would have been obvious: Not in our name.

#232 tha pragraph in blue is the title of the article, the one in bold is a para taken from the article. The rest ofthe article is extremely interesting.

Re: # 231

hhhhm! I guess I have short changed Echoboom. My praise was understated.

dot #232: interesting article. It is interesting that ``muslims`` being referred to in the article are pakistanis basically. Correct me if I am wrong - but from what I have heard and read, wealthy Arabs live in luxurious homes in posh areas in UK (as they do in the US, btw) thanks to their unearned oil wealth. It is only these paindoos from Pakistan who are trying to be more arab than the arabs who live in these ghettoes. The bus bombers who killed themselves and innocent bus passengers in the name of the arabs were also from among these paindoos.

The price will, as I said, is being paid by pakistanis - not arabs - since Arabs dont need visas to come to UK to earn a living or to improve the living condition of their families back home. But people from poor families in Pakistan do.

Re: # 235 Tahmed32, what is interesting is that the rich are never touched by this. The poor pakistani, and some other arabs and north africans (try calling a libyan or an algerian an arab - they will laugh and suggest that they are a diffrent kind from the saudi`s)

What is even more interesting is that the muslims in places likeBradford, Bolton, Glasgow, London, Birmingham, leeds, etc are repeating the exercise of post 1857 - going into a shell. They need to come out of it (not like in pre 1857 manner) but in the Syed kind of way.
In fact you will find both streaks (the shell by the older folk, the other way by the younger lot). Reason and reality seem to be different for all of them.

Dr. Sohail

Throuhgout my life there have been two major themes in my dreams; one is/was fighting to save the planet from bad guys, aliens, monsters, predatory animals, and even androids; the second theme has been running towards something, to catch up.

hamidm

There is no childhood trauma. According to your standards I had been leading a pretty normal life all my life. I spent most of my university life chasing JTI, APMSO, and NSF gunslingers and lowlives like Jiyay Sindh. I have survived many gunfights. Had I lived longer in Pakistan during my working life there, I would have turned phenomenon of being an asswhole into an art form. The paradigm shift occured when I migrated to US; there was no indoctrination of any kind because I was not cut out of the material that get indoctrinated; it was only observation. I saw the satan incarnate.

Re: # 237 by Urstruly on October 19, 2006 7:10am PT

Dear Urstruly:

{The paradigm shift occured when I migrated to US; there was no indoctrination of any kind because I was not cut out of the material that get indoctrinated; it was only observation. I saw the satan incarnate.}

Wow! You have now started seeing satan in the west. Congratulations! Gosh, it seems Urstruly, that even satan knows where to reside.

And this satan chap does not reside in our Islamic world, eh!?

Well, I will agree with you. One of them is our own shaitaan-e-buzorg vibrating mad mullah-o-crat masadi right here on the chowk. And then there are all these hindoo satans, don`t we? Do hindoos have satans?

Respectfully submitted,

Re: # 238

Gannewalah Behram1:Do hindoos have satans?

I donot think they have any satans or gods. Hinoods can confirm this. They are bunch of hoodwinking athiests who believe in ``aham bhrahmasmi``. How much bigger can an ego get?
Even you a great man doesnot say this.

``hoodwinking atheists.``

LOL, iron, you figures us out good! Hindus, in a fundamental sense, simply do not believe that there is any god/God sitting quite apart from them, out THERE somewhere.

You are right...in semitic terminology perhaps atheism comes closest to that concept. We truly are men and women of no ``faith,`` except the faith we ourselves agree to create for a certain amount of time.