Muslims ‘Unveiled’

#31 unfortunately the elephant has come to recognise this possibility, eventhoughit is an improbability.

#32 humiliated? Me? Go ahead have your fun(T)

It still doesnot change much - Turkey is considered to be Asia Geographically - your saying otherwise will not change it.

Your calling for Eurasian landmass - is similar to the guys in boom boom chacha`s interacts.

Re: # 21
Masadi Says, and I quote,

>>>That said, nobody has a right to tell the other how they should dress in whatever society.<<<

in another discussion, I quote Masadi, as he replies to Behram:

>>>They should guard against logical fallacies in the arguments of dimwits like you whose only attachment to the West is the bikini clad blonde they happened to see which had a `case closed` effect on them- people who can think and have transitioned to the level of `human being` from `animal`,<<<<

What a joker.

But here’s what many in the west question. Why is it always someone without a hijab always coming to argue for the merits of Hijab? Where are all the chicks gone? Has the discussion of the merits of Hijab reduced to friggin Mullas only? I think Irshad Manji has more credence speaking about it than the brainwashed jokers like Masadi.

In this whole debate of Niqab and burqa, why men treat women as if the have rolled off of a cabbage truck. Did it even occur to someone that they might have a mind of their own; they might be able to make their own choices? Could it be that those women who cover themselves up do it only because of their unquestionable obedience to their Prophet (pbuh) and Allah?

Frankly, I would have taken in by this burqa thing had I not seen Western women reverting back to Islam in such great numbers with my own eyes. Only in our mosque the women revert back to Islam at least at the rate of one per week - most of them single white females in their 20s and hundered percent of them chose to wear a very conservative Muslim attire after they come back into the fold of Islam.

There is a beautiful tale mentioned in Shirazi`s book of tales where a Sufi is invited to a party in the Kings palace. A simple man as he was went to the party in his simple dress and guards do no let him enter into the palace because of his clothes. He comes back and dones a priceless suite given to him by someone as a gift and goes back to the party. The same guards show him utmost respect this time and offer him a seat next to the king. When the dinner starts, everybody in the party get startled to see that the Sufi instead of eating his food started pouring it onto his dress. The King in his utmost surprise asks him what he was doing. The Sufi replies that it was not me who was invited to the party, it were my clothes, so I think, they deserve to eat your food not me.


The point is that Muslims should not get themselves engaged in these useless debates on attire; they should spend more time to set themselves as examples and deliver the message of Islam to the rest of the world as this is the only purpose they exist in this universe.

#34 by iron_mask

Is Cyprus Asia or Europe? Ok never mind. What is Greece?

Urstruly bhai, it is not Muslims who are getting themselves into a debate; the point has come now where it is no longer possible for Muslim citizens of the West to be like ostriches with their heads in the sand. 9/11, 7/7, Iraq War, Afghanistan etc. have seen to that.

I think people living outside cannot really comment (just as Muslims living in the West cannot really comment on events happening in the Islamic world since, not being there, we don`t know about events and facts on the ground.) : the point is that the hosts are finally saying, `When in Rome, do as the Romans do`!

So far, I think the British (I can`t speak for other EU nations) have been quite civil and gentle about it; todays Britons are a generally liberal people and not racists but I think the pleasure which some of our brethren get in being deliberately in their face is forcing a re-think. So far, the demands have been quite reasonable if we look at them rationally and not emotionally. Especially since nothing they`ve said contradicts Islamic fundamentals.The problem with the extremist maulvis is that they preach an extremely narrow branch of Islam. Traditionalist maulvis (for example, Imam Hamza Yusuf, Shaykh Abd al Hakim Murad etc.) know that there is a whole lot of flexibility in Shariah, especially in lands where Muslims are a minority.

By fitting in more, Muslims will be more valued and cherished as members of the society.

Zeemax:

In my opinion sometimes it is good to make a point and a good one, mind you, and move on.
A person is humiliated more by leaving him twisting & dangling in the air than by ``debating`` ( i hate that) and ``seeing the person home`` [ghar tak pohnachaanaa].

Ghar tak pohnchaanaaN is only for issues which results in monetary or goodwill loss. If it doesn`t ``cost`` anything people don not care for ``facts``.

and CHOWK is rife with people who, most of them any way, have been educated for jobs & earning. Most of them are not from Madresaas or self-taught in Madressa-education. (incl. Hindu Christian madressas).

#39 by echoboom

[ghar tak pohnachaanaa].

Point taken. I`ve been guilty of this.

``Naley anneyh kolon bund marao, naaley ohnoon ghar chhad key aao``

Not a good pursuit. No doubt.

#11

Echoboom, I hate Sir `Syed` Ahmad Khan more than you do. He was a khabis murtad and a mental slave. You cannot compare his situation though to what is happening in the UK now.

For a start, Muslims are guests here. You don`t go to your guests house and demand he do as you say! In Islam there are rules for guests to behave well. Thirdly, no one is asking Muslims to do anything against their faith. Fourthly, it is okay for those living in far away places to antagonise these people, but those living here don`t gain anything by doing so.
Fifthly, if you are dressed in such a manner that people are afraid to even approach you--how will you ever be able to talk to that person and tell him or her of the beauty of Islam?

We must stop making mountains out of molehills and seeing enemies where none exist.
E.g. When goriyaaN go to Pakistan they make an effort to dress modestly so as not to offend the locals; likewise we should do the same here.

a time will come when an asian man will look an english man in the eye and dispute his claim to this land.

Zeemax, why bring in that metaphor about `bund maraona` ?-- and in Ramadan also!

Re: # 19

you plonker, even if this single poll was representative, it would still leave 60% who do NOT want shariah law in the UK. That is a majority!

Echoboom,

Awaiting your response to @40.

#43 by Naqshbandi

Just pointing to the irony of it. But point taken. Sorry. It`s infuriating though how some people just won`t accept facts.

Re: # 36

Urstruly, I would agree with you in principle that this is a good maxim in life (the last para of your interact). Unfortunately, this is not valid now - Asif Naqshabandi has mentioned the reasons. In the eyes of the world Islam is being equated to unreasonableness, we could argue this, but it dont matter a whit.

What is required is for the muslims at large, to show the world that they are a reasonable set of people. How this is to be done, is the issue here. The debate opened by the Brits, is an opening which the muslims should grab and engage in constructively. (they could have taken on a more agressive tone, but this has not happened, and I donot think it will happen in the near future)

So far what I have seen in the UK is this, it is the white anglo-saxons who are bebating the issue standing on both sides of the argument. Not a single muslim has joined in the debate. What you see, and unfortunately always seem to be the case, is knee-jerk reactions and extreme defensiveness on one side, and at the other end the sort of triumphalism of the Echoboom kind. Neither of which yields results in the long run.

If you would permit to encapsulate the debate into a few words it is this, perhaps it is very glib, - Wear religion on Sleeve or keep it in your mind! That is what it all boils down to. (it is not a question of visibility here - you see churches, cathedrals, temples, synagogues etc, you see people in Yashmulks, bindis, mangalsutras, wedding rings, etc - have christening ceremonies, baptisms, funeral ceremonies etc - these are all visible).

Naqshbandi:41

Let me categorically say you are wrong.

It is the negro calling another negro calling Nigger syndrome..or the Paki calling another Paki syndrome. ..or a Macaca calling another one Macaca syndrome.

Jack Straw & Reid are NOt interested in Islam or Muslims..period. If they were they would have approached the sujbect through the Muslim Council of Britain and/or so may muslim Members of Parliament and city councillors & mayors..and If Allah is my witness there is no shortage of those. Even Galloway, this being a non-partisan issue, would have ben a great ``insider``.

No Janaab Naqshbandi! There is a PATTERN here of deliberate, nasty and evil provocation. JacK Straw & Reid are POLITICIANS and their aim is to pre-empt BNA on one hand in the muslim-hate-industry & Respect-party in the muslim-love-industry.

The Cartoons--the Pope--the German Theatre--the cartoon Documentary; one after another
Like GHulaam Quadir Rohilla Taimoori Blood-test being taken to determine the ghairat & Hammayat Index sacrificed at the altar of materialism & comfortism.

There is only ONE way to live & that is to make life UNCOMFORTABLE for ones self & the OTHER as well..and then let the other sue for peace..& YOU give them concessions.

See you not the True Koreans & Iranians dragging these dogs, by a snout-ring & long rope, through Maint Street, Earth?


Nobody Power has ever won against those who are willing to die for their Faith.