Dilemmas of Creative Children

Hey Dr. Sohail....
Have you heard about the new rather popular movie called "Taare Zameen par"... It looks like it's inspired from your article...
I suggest you get hold of Aamir Khan for this... ;)

I thoroughly agree with Saima Shah here, that we cannot loosen standards to unleash creativity on us. Creativity comes as a result of social pressures, I believe. A creative person unconsciously digresses from the majority because he finds them unreceptive to him from the very beginning. It is true that in harsh conditions, creativity too comes up along with many other complexes. This article should have been titled simply "Dilemmas of people in general" rather than on creative children. Creativity is the consequence.

Regards

mangotree

Re: # 45

Dear Dr Sohail

Thanks for your reply. Of-course I agree with what you said--and yes part of my reply was a vent at what I think is happening in reality. Pessimistic? no, I don`t think my thoughts are pessimistic but a summary of the reality where true creativity will be hard to assess. I sometimes feel that psychologists and therapists are trained to believe in an impossible dream whereas humans are hardwired to be miserable. It is odd that it is in misery that some of the greatest ideas have been born. Therefore I wonder if creative people would be creative unless their journey had forced them to think. I don`t separate the creative person from his/her life. Also, in my opinion society cannot be taught to be kind to creative people. Perhaps it is the lot of truly creative people to suffer, however harsh that may sound. Society has tried to encourage creativity in normal people by lowering standards. Also, some types of creativity are easily commercialized. The highly creative programmer finds instant recognition vs. the creative political writer. And that kind of creativity encourages governments to fund education and institutes that encourage `creativity.` because of immediate economic benefits. But those who attempt social change are discouraged very often.

Perhaps we can classify the different kinds of creativity--and come up with a theory of creativity here:).

Thanks for your reply.


Regards

Saima

Re: # 53

Dear Khurrum....I like your honesty. You are right every child has creative aspect to

his/her personality that needs to be encouraged. The studies I read state that in grade one

creativity in children was 85per cent but the rational, logical and problem solving curriculum

changed the child to the point that in grade ten the creativity was reduced to 15per cent.

These are normal children. They do not mind conforming and do not rebel that much. The

problem becomes with those children who are special and have creative personalities and

are going to become the extra-ordinary scientists and artists and mystics and reformers.

They get in serious conflict with authorities and rebel and then silenced and suppressed and

oppressed by traditional families and schools and experience emotional problems even

breakdowns. Psychologists and psychiatrists and guidance counsellors are concerned about

such children. They are children with special needs and need to be recognized and helped.

We have to go a long way to be able to do that. sincerely sohail

Re #42,

Dr Sohail,

Personally I am ambivalent on this issue. On the one hand I have witnessed the regimentation imposed in schools. On the other hand I have also seen what Saima Shah described as loosening of standards in the name of creativity. So, I don`t know the right answer.

I am also disturbed by the idea of dividing people between creative and noncreative. Shouldn`t creativity be encouraged in all children?

Re: # 50
Dear Antamazol....you are unfair to me by putting me in `you guys`. I am not sure who

you mean. Just because I mentioned three Western Creative Personalities in this article

that does not mean I do not admire Eastern Creative Personalities. If you visit my website

www.drsohail.com

you will find a dozen articles and a dozen interviews about Eastern Creative Personalities

including Ghalib and Iqbal and Josh and Kishwar Naheed and Fehmeeda Riaz and Nida

Fazli and Faraz and many more.

After saying that I believe that humanity is one family and creative personalities give their

gifts to all humanity whether they are scientists, artists, mystics or reformers. We inherit

their wisdom. Bullay Shah and Sheikh Saadi are as much for the West as Walt Whitman

and Ibsen are for the East.

Scientist who discovered antibiotics or insulin was not discovering it for

one nation or country. Someone told me that the medication for high blood pressure in

West called Ismaline was discovered by Hakeem Ajmal and was called Ajmaleen ( I have

not my research on that subject yet). The point I am making is that let us own and enjoy

and appreciate all discoveries of all traditions and all nations. Let us

translate world literature to be available to all to benefit....thanks for your honest

comments...sincerely sohail

#49,

Keep the child safe, a creative child will soon find a new stimuli.

Khalid sb,
article is nice .But I wonder you didn``t mention Quaid -Azam in the list of creative children.
He used to run from school till eleven .
his mind was much more active than his class fellows .You guys are influenced by westren people.

Re: # 33
Exactly that`s my point, now how can we let him/her continue exploring such thing?
So, my question is `What should one do, to keep him safe and also creative at such points?``
And real problem is that people are mostly saving their children(according to them), if you know what i mean.

Re: # 47

dear bjkumar....thanks for connecting me with saimashah`s creative personality. In the

future I will pay special attention to her articles. I was surprised you read my letter to her.

I thought you did not like my style of writing....or you were just kidding....expressing

your affection in a cynical way....smiles...my intuition is that if we met in person we will

get along great.....you are creative to the core....just finding the right form of expression

and communication. I want to ask you the same question I asked saima. I write to share

my truth not to impress others. I know one can not please everybody but if one is true to

oneslf sooner or later people appreciate it and I am fortunate that I have many friends who

like my style and my themes in Urdu as well as in English...exploring the mysteries of

human mind and helping the ones in need in my practice. Creativity has a dark side too

that we need to be careful about. I hope you do not mind my taking liberties with you. I

hope I did not offend you. Some creative people win arguments while others win

hearts.... ..sincerely sohail

#45 DrSohail to Saima shah

[You sound like a creative person. How do you express it?]

If one were to guess, mostly like this.

Re: # 43

Dear GT....tit for tat....I deserved your long post as I had sent one myself.

I agree with you that creative process might be subtle and vague and non-creative person

may not recognize it till it takes the form of a product.

On the other hand when non-creative people interact with creative people they find their

personalities and lifestyles entertaining and enlightening. They are rarely boring as they

are usually passionate about the things they love and create. If traditional people do not

judge and criticize them they might be able to enjoy them more. sincerely sohail

Re: # 44

Dear Saima Shah....thanks for your thoughtful comments. You sound pessimistic.

Creative process can be an enjoyable process in itself and makes the creative person

a special person.. It is like a seed....child is born with that gift. All I am

suggesting is that if parents and teachers and relatives... families, schools and communities

can recognize that seed early then they can provide the warmth, sunshine, fresh air and

water for that seed to grow and flourish and produce fruits in the form of poems and plays

and paintings and scientific discoveries to entertain and enlighten people. If they do not

recognize it then I agree with you it will be an exercise of mediocrity. In that case

most of us die before we are fully born. You sound like a creative person. How do you

express it? sincerely sohail

Dear Dr Sohail

The path of truth is difficult and painful. How does one ever know whether to believe in oneself or write oneself off as a pedantic waste of time. One never does know. There are those who have the courage to pursue--and believe in their ideas and those who are deterred by what others say. What is wiser, we don`t know till we arrive someplace that others can understand and relate with. In the journey there is only struggle. It lacks glamour, it is a waste of time--yet we have twisted the meaning of creativity till it sounds almost glamorous and a means to earn bigger bucks.

I doubt that creativity can be nurtured in a `school.` The very word `school` means to prune, shape and adjust. Creativity is a wild card. Attempts to enhance creativity at schools have only led to a lowered standard of excellence. The very attempt to define what is `creative` makes it anything but creative. How can one plan for creativity, price it and sell it?

So--sadly, I think the attempt to liberalize schools have led to an acceptance of mediocrity and a lower level of excellence. At first children have to master the basics before they attempt to radically change things. Unfortunately, the creative schools have come to mean `slacker` schools. And the `excellent` schools mean how well the school can motivate our children to adhere to the rules.

As for the need for contemplation. Yes, indeed yes. Our over regulated children whose every moment is filled with some activity or our neglected children whose time is taken up with one screen or another--it is rare to find a child daydreaming. I am afraid for the next generation; I fear that they are adrenaline junkies who are afraid to think and ponder. Visually over stimulated and spacially constricted in a fear driven society, where everything goes--our children are suffering in ways most of us do not realize.

To imagine that industrial society is more creatively stimulating than pre-industrial is a tragic assumption. We as a race are anything but creative--we are a mass produced culture that suffocates creativity. Today, if we want to be creative, we go to Micheal`s and buy a kit and a set of poster paints, produced in China. We lack the passion, the emotional depth to be artists and we lack the mental rigor to be scientists. We are a sub-intellectual society.

Re: # 40 by drsohail:

(Warning: Long post)

Sohail,

Thanks once again for taking the time. The material that you attach is indeed a difficult read and I am yet to digest it. But certain aspects did perk up my interest. In fact now I can make my previous claim in a more cogent manner. For simplicity, I shall put forth my claim in a very drastic manner. I do so only to highlight the problem.

CLAIM: It is almost impossible for a non creative person to identify a creative person before (and at times after) the creative act.

(A selective) DEFINITION OF A CREATIVE PERSON: (Gordon) ``....... creative people can see similarities between dissimilar things and also see old things in a fresh new way. They can look at the same thing, person, problem or system in many different ways, and develop fresh insights.``

I understand that this may not fully capture the notion of creativity, but let us play along for a while. To identify a creative child, I assume, one needs to define a creative process and map it to observations received from a child`s behavior. Following Catherine Patrick

PROCESS FOLLOWED BY A CREATIVE PERSON (CP): (0) (my two bit): getting interested in an issue or problem; (1) gathering information; (2) toying around with ideas for solutions; (3) getting the intuition for the correct solution; and (4) verification.

WHY THE PROCESS MAY NOT BE IDENTIFIED BY A NON-CREATIVE PERSON (NCP):

(0) A NCP may not see or be able to identify the problem. Example: The CP spends hours playing ``knots and crosses``, the NCP is perplexed: the game is not even an issue for a six year old and here is a 12 yr. old spending hours on it. [The CP may be trying to figure out an algorithm for the ``travelling salesman problem``, let us simply call it ``chess``.]

(1) The NCP may fail to decipher that information is being gathered. Example: The same kid, the next year, starts playing chess. She looses all the time, even to her six year old brother. Many a time, she repeats the same failed strategies time and again while her brother employs new strategies. [The NCP may never realize that the CP is collecting information on non-optimal strategies (without which the optimal cannot be derived).]

(3) The NCP may fail to understand why the CP is shouting ``Eureka``: The next year is a disaster. The CP claims that chess has a solution, i.e. ``intelligent people`` would never play it but would agree beforehand who is the winner or who is the looser (or whether it is a draw). Not only that, but she now claims that she is a great mathematician. The NCP is foxed. But being a good person goes around looking for verification. [Actually the kid discovered Zermelo`s theorem].

(4) Given the state of knowledge in the society, verification is impossible: No such pair of ``intelligent`` persons is found by the NCP. Mathematicians are unaware of Zermelo`s work and they laugh off the CP`s claim. To top it all, the CP, of course continuously looses her chess games. [Hence no verification, the problem is that the optima are not computable given our present computers and mental ability to compute].



I hope you have enjoyed my ``anecdotal proof`` of the claim that I made. The claim, of course, would not hold in reality. But, then again, reality may not be far from my claim.

Regards.

Re: # 36

Dear Khurrum...thank you for connecting with that website...looks very interesting. What

are your own views about them? sincerely sohail