Pakistan's Afghan Policy

#32,
Its the bitter reality that you Meccas dont want to face. Spineless cowards can only scream on chowk, do something coward meccas, even the Nepalis could bring in democracy.

Re: # 33

jg,

what is a mecca ? ......... a meccan is a resident of mecca - but even though half the pakis claim that they are related to the murderous marauding meccan tribes, it is not true ........ most of us are mecacas like you - we just have better personal hygiene because we wash our unmentionables five times a day ..........

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HP sain, IMO the religion-card is useful uniting force for pashtun tribes, but is it necessary? others are more or less able to carry on with normal ethnic and tribal politics. in addition the religious agenda to appease pashtun tribe is more cultural (conservative tribal practices) and not ``real islam`` as many would shout, hence not really religious per se. so while paki establishment can use this easy approach or using the religious card for grabbing political power in that part of the world, it does not make that case that its the right approach or the only approach. i dont buy that its purely religious fervor which creates the jihadis.. if the money dries up, will the jihadi militias still survive?

in the end, riding this tiger will cost big for islamabad, so the solution you propose (or foresee) is prolly not very pretty.

Pakistan`s Afgahn policy has been absolutely correct and pragmatic until 9/11. After 9/11 all the choices that Pakistan made have been proven wrong.

- The first proof of these policies being wrong is that these policies aided West and US in conducting genocide of Afghan nation resulting in the death of hundereds of thousands of innocent human beings;

- the second proof is that Taliban had proved themselves the only countrywide stabilizing force in Afghanistan, Pakistan`s aiding kafirs has resulted in destabilization of the whole region, the threat of terrorism has increased hundered folds and resulted in a civil war in Baluchistan and Waziristan;

- the third proof is that there is an absolutely indegenous freedom struggle against occupation going on despite full isolation of Afghanistan and sealing of its border;

the fourth proof is that Pakistan has no exit strategy after the western crusade collapses in near future inshallah;

- the fifth proof is that Pakistan has no containment policy in place for the civil war that will ensue in Afghnaistan after Wesrtern occupation is defeated and they will once again leave their baggage on Paksitan`s shoulders;

- the sixth proof is that there are still 3 million Afghan refugees living in Pakistan and their number has been increasing steadily as the Western genocidal machine opertaes with impunity. Pakistan has no startegy as to how to support these unfortunate human beings once Capitalists stopping seeing a benefit in occupation.

- The seventh proof is that Pakistan has no policy in place to stop the drug trade that CIA has started to fund its operations in Afghanistan and Iraq. How will Pakistan stop this drug trade after they left. Who will reign in the generals and corp commanders who are neck deep into this drug and arms trade?

Re: # 37 by jang:

Jai jaggannath ji ki,

``i dont buy that its purely religious fervor which creates the jihadis.. if the money dries up, will the jihadi militias still survive? ``

Good point. But how will the money dry up? Leaving aside opium, isn`t the flow of money related to religious fervor?

I think, what HP is saying is that leave these guys alone in a demarcated geographical region. Let them cut off hands and feet and what have you. Zeemax seems to go a bit further and adds that under such conditions these guys will naturally, with some outside help, come to do what others do.

OTOH arjun seems to be saying that the opposite is true. Geographical demarcation is not possible. The Taliban norms would seep into Pakistan and would start knocking at the doors of India (through Kashmir). Thus, India has reasons to get worried.

More later perhaps, ..... got to go.

hamidm: actually, the meccans are by now a diverse lot - i was told this by a fellow whose family has lived in mecca for generations. i asked him about his odd name (``Baghdadi``) and he told me that his family was originally from baghdad but some hundred years ago came down for hajj and settled down in mecca where they served as guides until the oil boom.

btw, i will be in your neck of the woods (ann arbor) for a class reunion this weekend and to watch a football game. i hope it is not too damned cold and snowy in your state.

just to complete the previous post - baghdadi also told me that there are lots of families like his in mecca. i.e. hajis from other places who came to mecca and settled down to make a living as guides to other hajis.

as for all these pathetic creatures in the sub-continent who run around with names like Qureshi and Hashmi and Syed - the less said the better.

HP #21
I was not bitching and moaning, I was replying to ally`s bitching and moaning. This is an article by an Indian and I have every right to reply here, loser Pakis.

Give us another authority on the Taliban then? Somebody who knows more than Ahmed Rashid and who we can read.

Does Pakistan have an Afghan policy at all today?

Now I understand this probably wasn`t covered in IT for cab drivers, but anyone can get a blog on blogspot or typepad...NOT everyone can get a blog on abcnews.com...and not everyone, especially not paki goatbrains, can get a blog with Brian Ross` name on it...

#43

Abdur Rehman or Mohammed Yusuf :-)

#37 by jang
“HP sain, IMO the religion-card is useful uniting force for pashtun tribes, but is it necessary?”

It is still a card everyone can be dealt that card and use it to ace another group.

Khasi samajhdani is very small so they don’t understand that politics is not some creed w/o flexibility. Politics and politicians must be ready to be to make deals when offered or create deals when they need one. Read Chanakiya (sp… I can’t spell Khasi names right) or Machiavelli.

Take for example the Taliban. Taliban were never anti America. In fact, the truth is that they were dealing with the US right up to the 9/11. The US govt. gave them couple of hundred million bucks to win their support against al qaeeda in the summer of 2001 or 2000. Taliban leaders were visiting the US and talking to the US oil companies in US on special visas.

Saudis or the Pak army would never have supported them if the Taliban were anti American. They opposed the western ideals. That does not make them anti American automatically. Saudi Arabia is dead set against the western ideals but only a Khasi would say that KSA is anti America. Similarly, Hugo Chavez is anti American but he is not anti-west. People need to understand political terminology better.

After 9/11, Taliban could not shake off their loyalty to OBL, a typical afghan trait. They have paid a price for that. No afghan or Taliban has been accused of terrorism outside of Afghanistan. The Afghans in gitmo were fighting the invading armies they did not attack the US. Not every nation is like the Khasi nation that sat on its hands for a thousand years without lifting a pebble against the occupation. So what US got against the Taliban? Being fundamentalists or being against the western culture does not exclude them from political dialog.

Pakistan has opened a channel for the US to talk with the Taliban. Every single word of the Pak army agreement with the Waziri tribes has been approved by the US or the US President would not have put his neck out to support it. The Democrats and Khasis are just opposing the whole deal because the deal was approved by the Bush admin and executed by Pakistan.

Post ww2 history suggests that no invading or occupying army has been able to maintain control for a long time. Even Vietnam did not last ten years. So, the US has to get out of Afghanistan. In fact, the US has already handed it to NATO and the British. The British are already making deals and NATO is not sent there to fight. Its job is to maintain the status quo until the US political situation is ready.

Imo, The US is defeated in Iraq and now it has to find ways to get out of both Iraq and afghan to save face before it is rubbed in the dust ala Saigon US embassy.

The best thing is to find moderate Taliban, create another entity for them and handover power and let Pakistan/NATO supervise them to ensure no alqaeeda type emerges out of there.

#38 by Urstruly on October 25, 2006 7:49am PT


Pakistan`s aiding kafirs


Paki generals: ALLAH-O-AKBAR!!! JIHAD!! Kashmir banega Pakistan!! Strategic depth!!
Armitage: down boy..or we`ll bomb you to the stone age.
Paki generals: umm...ok..

#43

on a serious note, warrier read Steve Coll`s ``Ghost War`s``

#46

In general I would agree with HP here, the Taliban started out with no explicit anti-American idea`s. They did get a lot of support from the US with Robin Raphael (yeah the same one) agressively defending the Taliban at the UN. But this support from the US has to be understood in the context of great dis-interest from the Bush-I administration in Afghan affairs with the foreign policy priority having moved to Eastern Europe and Central Asia with the collapse of the Soviet Union. It was not until Hillary Clinton and Mavis Leno (Jay Leno`s wife) started actively campaining for womens rights in Afghanistan did public visibility and perception change.

The fundamental flaw of the Taliban, was that at its core with it was always nothing without the ISI and their Saudi/Paki sponsors and hence beholden to their agenda. They did not have the maturity to realize or the strenght to oppose the Pakistani/Saudi agenda of establishing Bin Laden in their country (and hence involving America after the 1998 embassy bombings) . They could not oppose the establishment of Harkat-ul-Mujaideen camps or challenge the ISI/LeT as they planned the Khandahar hijack that released Masood Azhar and Omar Shaikh hence bringing India into the picture. They were stuck in the middle as Benazir and the US fought over gas pipelines (Benazir had taken money from Bridas an Argentianian company and the US supported Unocal).

Yes the Pakistani sponsored moderate-Taliban may be forced down the throat of the US as it attempts to extricate itself from Afghanistan, but eventually nothing will change as the nature of the state in Pakistan and Saudi remains the same, their ambitions remain the same.

We are just getting set for round 2.