Pakistan's Afghan Policy

Another one of those articles which starts with Pakistan’s afghan policy and ends up with Khasi obsession of Kashmir by every macaca.

First, let us look at some comments that really show ignorance and probably are part of the propaganda campaign by the Khasi govt. I don’t know Mr. Pande’s background but the article mostly consist of Khasi govt talking points that are regurgitated every nine months when the pangs reach the highest level.

Ahmed Rashid perhaps wrote it once but it is repeated by Khasi authors so many times that one wonders whether Khasi authors only have spaghetti for brain.

Mr. Pande quotes Ahmed Rashid, “and tacit connivance of the Pakistani border guards forms the basis of Pakistani help.”

So, this “tacit connivance” is the source of all the problems. In that case, one needs to ask a simple question: what the eff the NATO, the US, The British and the Karzai guards do on the other side of the border or now Pakistanis guard both sides of the border.

These mindless political analysts keep repeating this nonsense because that is something they like to repeat and never use their (non existing) shrunk dot infested brains to ask themselves as to how that is possible. What a moron!

If Pakistan is providing support to Taliban, it will not use regular borders manned by Guards on both sides.

“Afghanistan was created as a buffer state between the British and Russian empires.”

Another thoughtless comment! Who the eff created the buffer state? The British perceived Afghan as a buffer state. However, there is no historical evidence that the British actually had that as some kind of strategy. Remember that in the late 19th century, the British fought to control Afghanistan and finally settled for some influence over the Shah in Kabul. British never controlled Afghanistan. So how in the hell were they going to create Afghanistan as a buffer state? Some creative British historian in an attempt to cover up their beating in Afghanistan created this buffer state bogey.

The God like reverence to gora by Khasis leads them to accept whatever the British said without thinking about it.

Pakistan has a legitimate role to play in Afghanistan. Pakistan has historic relations and shares ethnicity with Afghanistan. Half the Pakistanis including people in Punjab, Sindh and Balochistan trace their roots to Afghanistan. Afghanistan economy for centuries is tied with trade with the areas that are now Pakistan. Afghanistan’s economy still depends on Pakistan. They can`t even sell opium w/o Pakistani help.

Pakistan army made serious mistakes when it supported the Mujahideen and later Taliban in Afghanistan but since then lots things have changed. Now there is no force in Afghanistan that can keep peace there and the US and NATO have begun to realize that.

You cannot have a government in Kabul representing eastern Afghanistan without Pakistan support. The NATO or the US cannot remain in Afghanistan indefinitely but Afghanistan will always have to share borders with Pakistan. The long-term solution in Afghanistan is to divide that country along the ethnic lines and Pakistan should take over Eastern Afghanistan directly or through proxies.

You`re just re-iterating a version of history... people in Pak have been trying to work towards this for a long time, nothing new here... what would be new is if you Indians actually showed you cared and helped those Pakistani people that are trying for the above policy change instead of constantly attacking us at every given opportunity thereby distancing even those Pakistani people that are of the same viewpoint as yourselves.

Instead of writing blah blah like the above (which have been written many times over in many countries in many languages) try writing an article that explains to your Indian countrymen the value of trying to connect and actively help those Pakistani people who want to resolve Pakistan`s issues in a peaceful and open manner.

Articles like this that regurgitate various news items, constantly telling us what to do make me a tad peeved, as the first thing that comes to mind is `Dont you think we already know this woman! and why didn`t you guys listen to us before Pakistan bashing became a fashion?` In some way or the other you all helped and contributed to this along with Amreeka and Yurop, if not logistically or financially then by generating the hate required for it. Now you`re telling us, the general Pakistani whom has zip control or significance to do something about it... the cheek! Where were you guys when the generals and dictators came into power and hung our elected PM`s, when we had coup after coup? When slowly but surely every little bit of control and democracy was taken away from those that reside there? And now you have the cheek to tell us to `fix it`!!!

Well Bibi i could use the choicest of Punjabi but i shall refrain, as it wont really get us anywhere. Ms Aparna Pandey, how do you expect those people whose back has been broken by their own govt. (supported by many other 3rd countries) to fix the sh*t you (and us) don`t like?

You ppl sit accros the border all snug, vengeful, and full of hate, ever thought of actually reaching out to the people of Pakistan? Your Bollywood is in every Pakistani home, but you still produce cr*p films like Border etc. that do nothing to help ordinary people to people relations.

Until you guys are sincere about helping us, then shove this article where the sun don`t shine!

A

Re:HP#1

[...Khasi obsession of Kashmir by every macaca....]

What the heck is ``Khasi`` obsession? Khasis are a tribe in Northeast India in Meghalaya. As far as I know, they have no interest in Kashmir.

Re: # 1 by HP:

``The long-term solution in Afghanistan is to divide that country along the ethnic lines and Pakistan should take over Eastern Afghanistan directly or through proxies. ``

That (and a bit more) happened during the rule of the Taliban (proxy). So:

1. What do you mean by ``solution``?

2. Why did the ``Pakistan army (make a) serious mistakes when it supported the Mujahideen and later Taliban in Afghanistan``?

Re: # 1

Yaar HP. Your last line, that afghanistan should be divided on ethnic lines. Maza Aagaya, this what I have been thinking for a long time. That is the only solution. I agree 100% with you.....

Re: # 2 by ally:

`` .... if you Indians actually showed you cared and helped those Pakistani people that are trying for the above policy change instead of constantly attacking us at every given opportunity thereby distancing even those Pakistani people that are of the same viewpoint as yourselves.``

I do not know the motive of the author. But if what you suggest were to come true then the status-quo would change in both the countries. And we know that a lot of powerful people (or people who would have something to loose) do not want to move from this comfort zone.

The long-term solution in Afghanistan is to divide that country along the ethnic lines and Pakistan should take over Eastern Afghanistan directly or through proxies.


What If the pashtun in afghanistan form their own country and take over the pashtun parts of Pakistan?

Taliban slap taxes in Miramshah

By Our Correspondent

MIRAMSHAH, Oct 22: The Taliban on Sunday imposed their brand of penalties for various acts which they deemed to be offences and levied ‘taxes’ on businesses.

The Taliban, who recently opened their offices in Miramshah after signing a peace deal with the government, also proclaimed a vast area around the Miramshah town to be their ‘area of operations’ and ‘banned’ all sorts of criminal activities around the North Waziristan Agency headquarters.

The Taliban Shura, headed by Maulvi Abdul Wahid, distributed pamphlets spelling out their policies. The pamphlets were also pasted on walls around the town.

All Taliban factions operating in the North Waziristan Agency are represented in the Shura.

The Taliban proclaimed that maintenance of law and order and punishing crimes in the area between Miramshah-Ghulam Khan road and Deerdani checkpoint-I, Miramshah and the Tablighee Markaz and Miramshah and Mirali road would be their responsibility.

The Taliban would devise punishments for different crimes and would award death for death according to the Shariat. Likewise, people committing other crimes in the area would also been punished according to Islamic jurisprudence.

For robberies and thefts, the Shura prescribed fine amounting to Rs500,000 and two-month prison term for the offenders.

Acoording to the ‘tax schedule’ issued by the Taliban, every 10-wheeler truck entering the agency would have to pay Rs1,500 for allowing them six-month road access, while six-wheeler trucks would pay Rs1,000 twice a year.

Petrol pump owners, the pamphlet said, would have to pay Rs5,000 to the Shura after every six months.

The ‘tax’ was titled ‘donation’ in the pamphlet appearing in the agency headquarters and would be at the sole disposal of the Taliban Shura. There was no mention how and where the money would be used.

{``1989 saw the Geneva Accords and the withdrawal of the Soviet Union from Afghanistan ``}

Ms. Pande,
This one line says everything about your viewpoint, how you reinvent history, and how you gloss over reality. This ``withdrawal of Soviet Union`` was more like a ``defeat of the Soviet Union.`` Almost the same thing, you say, but no quite. Your version puts a Russian-friendly tint on the ointment with which you chose to varnish this dead horse. If you can resort to such literary license with facts, it is no wonder that your entire article wreaks of RAW data. Please use more objectivity, more research, and less jingoism to become a bit more effective.

#4 by GT
“That (and a bit more) happened during the rule of the Taliban (proxy). So:
1. What do you mean by ``solution``?”

The Long and the short answers:
The short answer: there is no other choice.

The long answer is rooted in the history of the conflict.
The afghan conflict started with Gen Zia struggling under pressure in Pakistan after the coup in 1977, used Afghanistan as diversion, and sought help from his allies (fundos) in Pakistan who were against Bhutto too. The US and the Soviets joined in. Pakistan did not have some ambitious goals in Afghanistan to start with. They only wanted the left government to disappear. Pakistan army never had any strategic depth ideas before the afghan conflict so that too was an after thought.

Afghanistan has always been a religiously conservative country. Pushtoon overwhelmingly (barring hamid) are conservative. The Kings in Kabul stayed away from religion and they never really interfered in the religious affairs. Even the so-called communists during their brief history did not try to go against the religion.

Presently, we can say that before the 70s, the afghans were passively religious conservative and politically inactive. The 30 years of civil war has politicalized Afghans completely. Since the religion is the only politically ideology that dominates the afghan daily life, they are now aggressively religious political activists.

Only a religio-political group can at this moment, provide the leadership to the current Afghanistan. No matter how much we cry from the outside, the reality is that the current Afghanistan is an extremely conservative political entity and the Afghans would only accept leadership from the people that are like them. Since there is no other political entity in Afghanistan that can claim those credentials, the only choice is obvious.

“2. Why did the ``Pakistan army (make a) serious mistakes when it supported the Mujahideen and later Taliban in Afghanistan``?”

Pakistan should have avoided making the conflict global. They lost handle over the issue once it became global and later they tried to cover it up by creating Taliban. The Purcham (communist) coup in Afghanistan had no support outside of some small circles in Kabul and could have been easily politically defeated from within. But the Pak army tried to use the afghan situation to shore up support in Pakistan and continued to make mistakes that ended up in Pakistani quagmire in Afghanistan. The army though is learning fast.

you can watch the entire program online:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/taliban/

Re HP #9
“Presently, we can say that before the 70s, the afghans were passively religious conservative and politically inactive. The 30 years of civil war has politicalized Afghans completely. Since the religion is the only politically ideology that dominates the afghan daily life, they are now aggressively religious political activists.

Only a religio-political group can at this moment, provide the leadership to the current Afghanistan. No matter how much we cry from the outside, the reality is that the current Afghanistan is an extremely conservative political entity and the Afghans would only accept leadership from the people that are like them. Since there is no other political entity in Afghanistan that can claim those credentials, the only choice is obvious.”

I believe that the civil war in Afghanistan has polarized the society, not sure if it has politicized it. Why do you feel that it is not possible to have a stable political environment after a reasonable period of stability, say 15 years of international involvement.

Regards,

Faruk

Dear Aparna,

Taliban are the indigenous people of Afghanistan. This is a simple fact that India has failed to comprehend. India jumped in bed with a secular minority that owes power to foreign troops, who will inevitably leave one day. Just like the Russians.

OTOH, Pakistan`s policy of making peace with Taliban moderates is sensible and correct for both Pakistan and Afghanistan. All sections of Afghan society must cooperate to rid the country of warlords, anarchy, opium and foreign (read ``Indian``) interference. Tajiks, Uzbeks and Hazaras cannot lord it over the Pashtun Taliban forever.

It is India, not Pakistan, that needs to rectify its Afghan policy by taking the following steps:
(a) Come to terms with the Taliban
(b) Stop interfering in Afghan affairs
(c) Give up designs of using Afghan territory against Pakistan

Its laughable to see the Pakistani Paindoos still drooling over the Taliban. The Taliban managed to ruin Pakistan in the nineties with their jihadi fever and their support to OBL. If it were not for Musharraf, Pakiland might have been another Iraq today. Yet the paindoos want to put their money on the same set of losers, as if the world will just sit back and let the Taliban win in Afghanistan.

Push comes to shove, US will just use tactical nukes on Southern Afghanistan. Given US tendency to use daisy cutters to disintegrate Taliban, its just one notch above that to use tactical nukes on the Taliban. By the way it is delightful to imagine those bearded, filthy taliban getting nuked. Thats what I call exterminating vermin.

Ref HP #1

[You cannot have a government in Kabul representing eastern Afghanistan without Pakistan support. The NATO or the US cannot remain in Afghanistan indefinitely but Afghanistan will always have to share borders with Pakistan. The long-term solution in Afghanistan is to divide that country along the ethnic lines and Pakistan should take over Eastern Afghanistan directly or through proxies.]

The REAL long-term solution is to accept the fact that the Durand Line was imposed on Afganistan and for Pakistan to cede all Pushtun territories back to Afghanistan as the Afghans want.

The resulting state of Pakistan can be seen at: http://afghanland.com/history/durrand.html

That would put paid to wet dreams of ``strategic depth`` by Pakistan`s General Staff.

Pakistan would become the client state of Afghanistan as it currently is in all but name only.

Let me quote from that article: “Pakistan is a completely superfluous and artificially created spot on the world map that has become a breeding ground for extremism, and trouble that would be best done away with.”

Re: # 9 by HP

Thanks for the informative post. At places you were very terse. Would appreciate if you could elaborate on the following two:

1. ``Gen Zia struggling under pressure in Pakistan after the coup in 1977, used Afghanistan as diversion, and sought help from his allies (fundos) in Pakistan who were against Bhutto too.``

How did he use Afghanistan? (In answering this question, do not assume any knowledge on my part. Alternately you may provide a reference that you like.)

2. ``Afghanistan has always been a religiously conservative country.``

Do you mean tribalistic? How did these tribes interact with the central authority of the king?

Ref ally #2

[Articles like this that regurgitate various news items, constantly telling us what to do make me a tad peeved, as the first thing that comes to mind is `Dont you think we already know this woman! and why didn`t you guys listen to us before Pakistan bashing became a fashion?` In some way or the other you all helped and contributed to this along with Amreeka and Yurop, if not logistically or financially then by generating the hate required for it. Now you`re telling us, the general Pakistani whom has zip control or significance to do something about it... the cheek! Where were you guys when the generals and dictators came into power and hung our elected PM`s, when we had coup after coup? When slowly but surely every little bit of control and democracy was taken away from those that reside there? And now you have the cheek to tell us to `fix it`!!!]

Sweetheart, we Indians feel your pain. But what would you like us to do? Invade Pakistan?
There is very little India can do overtly to help get rid of the Pak Army`s control of Pakistan.

The people of Pakistan will have to do it themselves. Perhaps you folks can adopt Gandhi`s method (Yasser, dear boy, I know this is going to drive you nuts) of non-cooperation. Jinnah`s approach of talks with the Army isn`t going to work. If millions upon millions march in Karachi, Lahore, Islamabad, Peshawar and Quetta demanding that the Army go back to the barracks, maybe the Army would listen. Exactly how many can they arrest and jail? And in these days of camcorders in every hand, how many demonstrators can they kill before Pakistan is hauled up before the UN?

Indians didn`t generate any hatred against Pakistan in the US and in Europe. That has been done by the Pakistanis themselves who slit the throats of their daughters, be it in London or Oslo, who dared to go against the wishes of their parents. They do it in the name of family honor but worse, they do it in the name of Islam. That means the crimes of the Egyptians, the Saudis, the Yemenis in the name of Islam such as 9/11 come to haunt all Muslims.

What Pakistan -- for that matter, Afghanistan and most other -stans -- requires is education. Education that lifts up and frees the spirit of its people. Education that teaches that religion and piety are personal matters that have no business intruding in matters of state or even between people. Education that teaches that the poorest man is equal to the richest in the eye of the Law.

It is sad Pakistan has wasted nearly two generations of its youth on unattainable goals such as getting Kashmir or retaining Bangladesh, in the process giving its Army power over the country.

If we know how to dismount a tiger without getting killed, we would be willing to tell you the secret. But we don`t.

So the taliban, after whacking more than 700 paki soldiers and forcing the paki army to retreat, are collecting taxes in Pakiland? Strategic depth..in reverse.

Another hellfire might be landing on a bunch of pakis in the not-too-distant future..

Pakistani Truce Already Falling Apart

October 24, 2006 2:27 PM

Gretchen Peters Reports:

U.S. military officials tell ABC News cross-border attacks by the Taliban are up ``300 percent`` since President Musharraf declared a ``truce`` with tribal leaders in the troubled Northern Waziristan region that borders Afghanistan.

``Politically, it is very sensitive for us to raise this issue with Pakistan,`` said a senior NATO officer in Kabul. ``But the facts are the facts.``

Reports from the district capital Miram Shah say Taliban vigilantes now patrol the streets, while Pakistani government officials and the military are all but absent.

U.S. military officials say militants are openly ignoring the truce`s requirement that they lay down down their weapons.

NATO took over the Afghan coalition in early October, amid the fiercest fighting since the Taliban government was toppled five years ago.

Senior NATO officials say there is growing fury among the 26-nation alliance that Islamabad is doing little to stem the violence coming from its border areas.

``If the Pakistan army is not willing to clean this up in a sustained manner,`` worries a top U.S. military official, ``I just do not know what we are going to do.``

Although the peace deal with Islamabad specifically forbade the Pakistani tribesmen from forming a parallel government, Taliban rulers in the region have issued a strict legal code, even announcing plans to begin taxing vehicles that pass through their district.

ally #2
When an Indian PM took a big political risk and went to Lahore to pursue peace with Pakistan, Pakistan replied with conflict in Kargil. Today that adventure of Pakistan is being celebrated by Pakistanis as teaching Indians a lesson, meaning Pakistanis prefer war with India over peace.

When India tried to revive intra-regional trade through SAARC and SAFTA, Pakistanis including ruling party member Mushahid Hussain said India is only trying to extend its hegemony over the region and trying to sidestep solving Kashmir and Pakistan was determined to delay trade growth to teach India a lesson.

It was pointed out that India`s trade with China and other South Asian countries is growing anyway without requiring Pakistan`s acquiesance, but Pakistanis refused to accept that and so now Pakistan is determinedly staying out of regional trade agreements.

When India eased the visa regime and granted 1000s of visas to Pakistanis to attend cricket matches and allowing tourist travel besides, 11 Pakistanis entered India and never went back. A terrorist incident in Bangalore was tied to some of those missing Pakis. So now India is handing out only limited visas to Pakistanis for the cricket matches, and only for the purpose of the match and Pakistani visitors are escorted/under survelliance at all times.

When PM Manmohan Singh took a big political risk and offended most of the bureacracy and his political opponents and supporters by offering a `joint terror mechanism` to Musharraf so that terrorist incidents in India could be prosecuted with Pakistan`s help, what do Pakistanis do? The Pakistanis including ruling party leader Mushahid Hussain described it as a ``diplomatic loss`` for India.

Today the US and the West are pouring billions into Pakistan, loans, aid, military aid, development money, education money, determined defence on the international front, trying to make it worth Pakistan`s while to tackle the extremists. All they get in return from Pakis is abuse and accusations of malafide intentions. What the heck do you want them to do, kidnap Musharraf?

It is like this, ally, no one, absolutely noone can help Pakistanis who refuse to help themselves.

Is this true? -- if it is Musharraaf is in real trouble.


``EMBOLDENED, it seems, by the September 5 accord with the government, militants in North Waziristan are now institutionalising their authority over the tribal agency.

There is now at least one Taliban ‘office’ in Miramshah, the regional headquarters, and there is no doubt as to who is calling the shots in terms of administration. The militants’ jurisdiction has lately been formalised by the Taliban council of advisers, with a clearly defined territory in and around Miramshah demarcated as an “area of operations” where criminal activities are banned.

Here it is the Taliban, not the political administration, who will lay down the law for crimes ranging from theft to murder. Punishment is to be meted out in accordance with the

Taliban’s peculiar interpretation of the Shariat, not the state law applicable to the tribal areas. Penalties include execution, imprisonment and fines. Taxes in the form of involuntary ‘donations’ have been imposed on petrol pumps as well as trucks entering the agency.

The ragtag Khasadar force, meanwhile, is a mere bystander, unable to intervene in the affairs of the Taliban. With a parallel administration, judiciary, prison system and taxation regime taking shape, the writ of the state is conspicuous only by its absence.

The Taliban’s clampdown on ‘crime’ notwithstanding, these disturbing developments do not bode well for peace and stability in the region.

They also appear to substantiate allegations that the September 5 agreement was, first and foremost, meant to guarantee that the militants would not attack the armed forces, and vice versa. Indeed, it is only this aspect of the deal that seems to hold the ground.

As for the accord’s other clauses, no system has been put in place to monitor the conduct of foreign militants, nor — if Nato officials are to be believed — has there been any let-up in cross-border movement into Afghanistan.

On this side of the Durand Line, ‘spies’ continue to be assassinated by the militants, in clear violation of the clause prohibiting targeted killings.

This emergence of a state within a state needs to be looked into and checked forthwith. Since independence, the politics of expediency has prevented the integration of the tribal areas into the national mainstream. Historical mistakes must be rectified, not repeated.`` (DAWN editorial)

Re: # 19

General is not loosing control but consolidating. He is check mating USA and afghans at same time killing two birds at same time. He is like having insurance policy. Pakistani Talibans survive and supports Afghani Talibs USA is checked. Then usa can not go out from there so then becomes dependant on Pakistan and pakistan`s army. The idea is cut afghan Talibans but same time not destroy so USA can not get out and struck up and we can see American largeness. Worst thing if talibs completeted defeated then usa will leave and they will not put pressure on India to give back Kashmir. But they should not become too striong to challenge army. So balance is fine and general is master at that. Similarly Afghan regime must survive but not strong so they do not become strong and demand liquidation of Durand line. Just like LOC on Kashmir. Pakistan will like move it east while indians want staus quo. LOC is Indian`s durand line and same as our Durand line.
It is sad to see no sacrafice of preperation for linneration of Kashmir is sad but true.
General is following `` subse Pahila Pakistan line.`
This time to support President and give him chance.

#15 by GT

“How did he use Afghanistan?”
Well it would take a long long post to answer that but if you do a little research and figure out how the straw man or the bogeyman theory works you would find out.

“Do you mean tribalistic? How did these tribes interact with the central authority of the king? “
No, I meant religious. Not all Tribes have to be religious politically. The Baloch tribes in Balochistan don’t care abt religion but the afghan tribes do. So it was mostly religion that changed the politics in Afghanistan. The kings dealt with the tribal elders but had a non interference policy in religious matters.


#14 by harimau

HAHAHA!
Ishtay the courshe khasi….

Various other Khasis…

Khasi quoting blogs from abcnews thinks the blogger in the US know what goes on in waziristan. But they know squat and this particular Khasi as usual is so stupid that he can‘t figure that out . History is Khasis major enemy. After 1000 years of khasipan that is what they come up with an idiot blogger on abcnews. HAHAHA!

There are agreements in place with the tribes since the British days that allow tribes to impose taxes and they are pretty much free in their day to day governance. The political agent mostly liaison between the tribal leaders and the federal government in Pakistan. So there is no big deal if the tribes are imposing new taxes they can certainly do so. Let idiots draw some fancy conclusions. Though of late, the tribes are really aggressive in this regard as they lost money during the conflict with the Pak army.

#19 by nasah on October 24, 2006 9:13pm PT
“Is this true? -- if it is Musharraaf is in real trouble. “

Mushy is not in trouble because of what you quoted. You will have to come up with different reasons to find out where he actually is in trouble. The situation in the tribal areas is not trouble free because of the situation in Afghanistan. Taliban certainly have influence in the tribal areas and that would be a cause of concern if they bothered Pakistan and interfered in Pakistan’s internal politics. As long as they are busy in Afghanistan who cares.

#18 by sadna

Hahahah! B1tching and moaning that is what macacas do best…hahahahah!

#21 by HP on October 24, 2006 10:38pm PT


As long as they are busy in Afghanistan who cares.


I know reading comprehension isn`t part of the average cab driver`s training, but the article clearly indicates the taliban are collecting taxes INSIDE PAKISTAN....

Khasi brain works in a peculiar ways. Cant read, cant understand. Chtiya those are tribal areas and they can make their own laws. That is the agreement since the British days.
The dot holes on the foreheads don`t leave much in Khasi heads, so read the dime a dozen bloggers and be happy.
Every fking ahole including bj bihari has a blog nowadays.

OMG ... Is Ahmed Rashid the `sole` authority in the world on Taliban who bhartis love to quote? I`m sure there must be others.

#23
``Every fking ahole including bj bihari has a blog nowadays``
From this statement we understand that you are also a fking ahole.

HP #1

``The long-term solution in Afghanistan is to divide that country along the ethnic lines and Pakistan should take over Eastern Afghanistan directly or through proxies.``

Interesting to read this viewpoint which in fact had some currency during the final days of Jihad and there had even been mutterings of annexation, put to rest only by visions of Pakhtunistan. However, this solution is highly problematic now because division of Afghanistan on ethnic lines would present the same dilemma as division of Iraq now does i.e. an Iranian Caliphate stretching from Baghdad to Mazar Sharif and influencing many neighbouring CARs and some not yet CARs like Daghestan and Chechnya.

What do you think?

Those who secretly admire the Taliban and hanker after their Shariat driven tribal order should go and join them. They must go there and fight the US, the moderate muslims and every other who desires to see a secular, democratic and western liberal civilization on those harsh barren lands.
Please leave quickly!!!

Re #24

Dagestan and Chechnya not yet (but would be) CARs- every fanatic wahabbi`s wishful thinking. These republics will be bombed out of the map by the Russians if they even think of seceding.

Did any one suggest the division of afghanistan, Well division of pakistan is a more natural option. Sindh and kashmir to india, punjab alone and baluchistan and others to afghanistan. That would be natural culturalyy homogenious division. The TNT and isalm as a uniting force is long dead.

Pakistan is essentially a non viable state, held together by the army. The rising jihadis, the crime wave and the failure of state will lead to the division of pakistan. Already large parts of karachi are ruled by the thugs of the non-uniform kind, the rest of the country by the uniformed kind.

I blame it all on colin powel, he should not have made the offer, pakistan should have been part of the afghan invasion, and it would have been another iraq by now.

The only help that the non-resident pakistanis can provide is to accelerate that decline, to a nadir and from then on it can only be progress,

Pakistan`s afghan policy, well that is an albino oxymoron.

Pakistan has no economic policy, its major export, cotton is on the decline, the value added components of the cotton export has vanished. The weaving machines imported with subsidy are being sold to china at a profit by the importers. Then there is latest subsidy to exporters known as research grant, well it needs a lot of research to bale cotton and ship it.

The fundamental problem of pakistan is that there are no capability in any facet of science. There is no understanding of the world perception of pakistan, nor the reality of pakistan.

The pretty face of a pakistani woman in sari as the foreign affairs spokes person is all that the pakistani inteligentia could come up to project a moderate image of pakistan. Well well that is a shade better than pak tourism promotion in Japan as the home of Budhist culture. Pathetic from the land of the taliban, that destroyed bhumian budhas. It took a TNT inspired islamic country to destry the statues that survived the ghoris and the gaznavis. What a great contribution to man kind from that man whose photos are in every pak offices.

#30 jay still living in the hindu dreamworld of spite and hate. pathetic.

.....sighhhh! ......... i am getting sick and tired of the horrible hindoos regurgitating the same nonsense over and over again ......... what the heck was mahmud ghazni thinking when he spared grandpa gopinath`s cousin nathu ram ?!.......... if he had known that nathu`s progeny would turn out to be like the heeng-eating hyenas on this forum, he would surely have added his head to the tower ......... now i think we should recall our cricket team and nuke india this friday at 10 am ............ khas(i) kum jehan paak !

#32,
Its the bitter reality that you Meccas dont want to face. Spineless cowards can only scream on chowk, do something coward meccas, even the Nepalis could bring in democracy.

Re: # 33

jg,

what is a mecca ? ......... a meccan is a resident of mecca - but even though half the pakis claim that they are related to the murderous marauding meccan tribes, it is not true ........ most of us are mecacas like you - we just have better personal hygiene because we wash our unmentionables five times a day ..........

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HP sain, IMO the religion-card is useful uniting force for pashtun tribes, but is it necessary? others are more or less able to carry on with normal ethnic and tribal politics. in addition the religious agenda to appease pashtun tribe is more cultural (conservative tribal practices) and not ``real islam`` as many would shout, hence not really religious per se. so while paki establishment can use this easy approach or using the religious card for grabbing political power in that part of the world, it does not make that case that its the right approach or the only approach. i dont buy that its purely religious fervor which creates the jihadis.. if the money dries up, will the jihadi militias still survive?

in the end, riding this tiger will cost big for islamabad, so the solution you propose (or foresee) is prolly not very pretty.

Pakistan`s Afgahn policy has been absolutely correct and pragmatic until 9/11. After 9/11 all the choices that Pakistan made have been proven wrong.

- The first proof of these policies being wrong is that these policies aided West and US in conducting genocide of Afghan nation resulting in the death of hundereds of thousands of innocent human beings;

- the second proof is that Taliban had proved themselves the only countrywide stabilizing force in Afghanistan, Pakistan`s aiding kafirs has resulted in destabilization of the whole region, the threat of terrorism has increased hundered folds and resulted in a civil war in Baluchistan and Waziristan;

- the third proof is that there is an absolutely indegenous freedom struggle against occupation going on despite full isolation of Afghanistan and sealing of its border;

the fourth proof is that Pakistan has no exit strategy after the western crusade collapses in near future inshallah;

- the fifth proof is that Pakistan has no containment policy in place for the civil war that will ensue in Afghnaistan after Wesrtern occupation is defeated and they will once again leave their baggage on Paksitan`s shoulders;

- the sixth proof is that there are still 3 million Afghan refugees living in Pakistan and their number has been increasing steadily as the Western genocidal machine opertaes with impunity. Pakistan has no startegy as to how to support these unfortunate human beings once Capitalists stopping seeing a benefit in occupation.

- The seventh proof is that Pakistan has no policy in place to stop the drug trade that CIA has started to fund its operations in Afghanistan and Iraq. How will Pakistan stop this drug trade after they left. Who will reign in the generals and corp commanders who are neck deep into this drug and arms trade?

Re: # 37 by jang:

Jai jaggannath ji ki,

``i dont buy that its purely religious fervor which creates the jihadis.. if the money dries up, will the jihadi militias still survive? ``

Good point. But how will the money dry up? Leaving aside opium, isn`t the flow of money related to religious fervor?

I think, what HP is saying is that leave these guys alone in a demarcated geographical region. Let them cut off hands and feet and what have you. Zeemax seems to go a bit further and adds that under such conditions these guys will naturally, with some outside help, come to do what others do.

OTOH arjun seems to be saying that the opposite is true. Geographical demarcation is not possible. The Taliban norms would seep into Pakistan and would start knocking at the doors of India (through Kashmir). Thus, India has reasons to get worried.

More later perhaps, ..... got to go.

hamidm: actually, the meccans are by now a diverse lot - i was told this by a fellow whose family has lived in mecca for generations. i asked him about his odd name (``Baghdadi``) and he told me that his family was originally from baghdad but some hundred years ago came down for hajj and settled down in mecca where they served as guides until the oil boom.

btw, i will be in your neck of the woods (ann arbor) for a class reunion this weekend and to watch a football game. i hope it is not too damned cold and snowy in your state.

just to complete the previous post - baghdadi also told me that there are lots of families like his in mecca. i.e. hajis from other places who came to mecca and settled down to make a living as guides to other hajis.

as for all these pathetic creatures in the sub-continent who run around with names like Qureshi and Hashmi and Syed - the less said the better.

HP #21
I was not bitching and moaning, I was replying to ally`s bitching and moaning. This is an article by an Indian and I have every right to reply here, loser Pakis.

Give us another authority on the Taliban then? Somebody who knows more than Ahmed Rashid and who we can read.

Does Pakistan have an Afghan policy at all today?

Now I understand this probably wasn`t covered in IT for cab drivers, but anyone can get a blog on blogspot or typepad...NOT everyone can get a blog on abcnews.com...and not everyone, especially not paki goatbrains, can get a blog with Brian Ross` name on it...

#43

Abdur Rehman or Mohammed Yusuf :-)

#37 by jang
“HP sain, IMO the religion-card is useful uniting force for pashtun tribes, but is it necessary?”

It is still a card everyone can be dealt that card and use it to ace another group.

Khasi samajhdani is very small so they don’t understand that politics is not some creed w/o flexibility. Politics and politicians must be ready to be to make deals when offered or create deals when they need one. Read Chanakiya (sp… I can’t spell Khasi names right) or Machiavelli.

Take for example the Taliban. Taliban were never anti America. In fact, the truth is that they were dealing with the US right up to the 9/11. The US govt. gave them couple of hundred million bucks to win their support against al qaeeda in the summer of 2001 or 2000. Taliban leaders were visiting the US and talking to the US oil companies in US on special visas.

Saudis or the Pak army would never have supported them if the Taliban were anti American. They opposed the western ideals. That does not make them anti American automatically. Saudi Arabia is dead set against the western ideals but only a Khasi would say that KSA is anti America. Similarly, Hugo Chavez is anti American but he is not anti-west. People need to understand political terminology better.

After 9/11, Taliban could not shake off their loyalty to OBL, a typical afghan trait. They have paid a price for that. No afghan or Taliban has been accused of terrorism outside of Afghanistan. The Afghans in gitmo were fighting the invading armies they did not attack the US. Not every nation is like the Khasi nation that sat on its hands for a thousand years without lifting a pebble against the occupation. So what US got against the Taliban? Being fundamentalists or being against the western culture does not exclude them from political dialog.

Pakistan has opened a channel for the US to talk with the Taliban. Every single word of the Pak army agreement with the Waziri tribes has been approved by the US or the US President would not have put his neck out to support it. The Democrats and Khasis are just opposing the whole deal because the deal was approved by the Bush admin and executed by Pakistan.

Post ww2 history suggests that no invading or occupying army has been able to maintain control for a long time. Even Vietnam did not last ten years. So, the US has to get out of Afghanistan. In fact, the US has already handed it to NATO and the British. The British are already making deals and NATO is not sent there to fight. Its job is to maintain the status quo until the US political situation is ready.

Imo, The US is defeated in Iraq and now it has to find ways to get out of both Iraq and afghan to save face before it is rubbed in the dust ala Saigon US embassy.

The best thing is to find moderate Taliban, create another entity for them and handover power and let Pakistan/NATO supervise them to ensure no alqaeeda type emerges out of there.

#38 by Urstruly on October 25, 2006 7:49am PT


Pakistan`s aiding kafirs


Paki generals: ALLAH-O-AKBAR!!! JIHAD!! Kashmir banega Pakistan!! Strategic depth!!
Armitage: down boy..or we`ll bomb you to the stone age.
Paki generals: umm...ok..

#43

on a serious note, warrier read Steve Coll`s ``Ghost War`s``

#46

In general I would agree with HP here, the Taliban started out with no explicit anti-American idea`s. They did get a lot of support from the US with Robin Raphael (yeah the same one) agressively defending the Taliban at the UN. But this support from the US has to be understood in the context of great dis-interest from the Bush-I administration in Afghan affairs with the foreign policy priority having moved to Eastern Europe and Central Asia with the collapse of the Soviet Union. It was not until Hillary Clinton and Mavis Leno (Jay Leno`s wife) started actively campaining for womens rights in Afghanistan did public visibility and perception change.

The fundamental flaw of the Taliban, was that at its core with it was always nothing without the ISI and their Saudi/Paki sponsors and hence beholden to their agenda. They did not have the maturity to realize or the strenght to oppose the Pakistani/Saudi agenda of establishing Bin Laden in their country (and hence involving America after the 1998 embassy bombings) . They could not oppose the establishment of Harkat-ul-Mujaideen camps or challenge the ISI/LeT as they planned the Khandahar hijack that released Masood Azhar and Omar Shaikh hence bringing India into the picture. They were stuck in the middle as Benazir and the US fought over gas pipelines (Benazir had taken money from Bridas an Argentianian company and the US supported Unocal).

Yes the Pakistani sponsored moderate-Taliban may be forced down the throat of the US as it attempts to extricate itself from Afghanistan, but eventually nothing will change as the nature of the state in Pakistan and Saudi remains the same, their ambitions remain the same.

We are just getting set for round 2.

#48

In general Pakistan`s great failure in Afghanistan comes from its overarching ambition of total control of Afghanistan. The arrogance of its military-intelligence apparatus (which is reflected in the arrogance of the Pakistani elite here) which has alienated minority groups in Afghanistan and many of the Pastun tribes as well.

Pakistan has repeatedly sabotaged the formation of a broad based government in Afghanistan in its desire to create a servile state. If readers here are interested read about the Peter Thomsen mission in 1990-91 and how it was sabotaged by the ISI and the CIA.

#49 by bongdongs on October 25, 2006 9:30am PT

you think pakiland getting bombed by the USAF, the talipakis whacking 700+ paki soldiers, the paki army getting it`s teeth kicked in and withdrawing from the tribal areas and the taliban taking over parts of the tribal areas and imposing taxes are all a sign Pakiland`s failure?

You`re either uninformed or you hate Pakiland...

Or, like reality, you have a well known anti-Pakiland bias...

arjun #50 you were always a stupid, spiteful little man. now i think you are also growing seriously insane - thus proving that it is possible to be stupid and insane at the same time. Just like your elder macaca uncle jay.

#49 dont worry about pakistani generals` ambitions in afghanistan. We pakistanis are happy because Indian politicians` ambitions end where the ``pakiland`` border begins. :-)

#52

and that is precisely the problem.

Re: # 52
Perhaps, but Indian politicians will come and go every five years. It is Indian businesses that have to be reckoned with. And while HP can berate all Indians for having a unit vector for a brain, all of them are not stupid.
If Afghanistan offered an opportunity for money making then there will be Indian ambitions in that area too.

Luckily our businessmen do not hold our politicians in awe.-)

One thing which is really puzzling is how a man can sleep at night when Bin Laden is hiding out in his country under his watch. Is the Pak nation really so committed to take on the world to defend Bin Laden like the Taliban were?

#55 by sadna

lo and behold! macaca #55 knows where OBL is....Hey CIA might find you some work cleaning afghan stables....

#56
That Pakis call me names while shielding terrorists is old news to me, loser Paki.

#53 yup. From an indian point of view. But there it is - Pakistan Zindabad!! ;-)

#58

``But there it is - Pakistan Zindabad!!``

For macacas to follow it correctly you need to write: Pakistan Jindabad!

#54 ``Luckily our businessmen do not hold our politicians in awe`` true. and neither do businessmen anywhere else. in fact, businessmen hold politicians to the leash. in case of developing countries, they businessmen also hold bureaucrats to the leash.

#59 mea culpa. ;-)

Another puzzling thing is that the amount of energy Pakis spend in defending the Taliban regime which ruled in another country for 6 years you will not see them expending in defending any Paki regime except perhaps the Ayub Khan one. The future MMA regime may be the exception.

Re:bongdongs and arjun

If Pakistanis are stupid enough to back the Taliban all over again, I say let them do it. If they want to ruin their country, why stop it? If they dont see any problems in backing a bunch of illiterate, rabid, violent religious nutcases, God help them.

The Taliban have no hopes in Afghanistan, with the NATO/US troops waiting there along with the Uzbeks/Tajiks to welcome them with daisy cutters. If the Taliban are fighters, the Uzbeks/Tajiks are super fighters and now they control Kabul and have the west on their side. In every battle, at least 40-50 Taliban are being mowed down like ``gajar-muli``. In frustration, the Taliban will essentially carve out their country from Pakistan, which is exactly what they have started doing. The Waziristan deal is the first step towards the secession of NWFP from Pakistan.

From an Indian point of view, the main concern is if there is a spillover into Kashmir. The mining of the LOC during the peace process has given us a huge advantage. An associated concern is if the Taliban ally themselves with the MMA and rouge army elements to topple Musharraf and grab power. That will be a doomsday scenario but then thats why we have nukes. Until then, lets move forward with our 10% growth rate and Tata-Corus deals, while Pakiland wastes time with the Taliban in some fond imperial dream.

#63 even the dumbest pakistani is smarter than the average indian on chowk.

#63 as for kashmir - there are more than seven hundred thousand indian soldiers trying to hold onto a few million people who would rather not be part of India. This has to be the largest ratio of occupying force vs local population in human history.

This speaks louder than all the indian propaganda about what kashmiris think of India.

#63

the Pakistani`s have no choice, the Taliban are an expression of the nationalistic sentiment of the Durrani Pastuns and they will rule on both sides of the border.

The Pakistani and the Afghan state`s are both artificial anyway, both be dammed!

#66 all states are artificial. may they all be blessed! :-)

#65 by tahmed32 on October 25, 2006 10:37am PT

The ratio of Indians who don`t give a shit about Pakis(or Kashmiris) think and those that do is much much higher...as is the ratio of Indians who are willing to hand over Indian Kashmir to Pakiland compared to the people who do...

look at macacas getting excited as if word has gotten around that there is a sale on wrangler stonewashed jeans/levis dockers at the local walmart. and an indian quoting ahmed rashid is like a pakistani quoting arundharti roy. rashid is a celebrity in macaca circles because he is anti-islam and he is a rundee of the gora media which is another macaca bhagwan because a. its gora and b. goras pay macaca salary. gora media is in the habit of cultivating house niggers because these creatures reaffirm the worst fears goras have of their enemies. this is precisely why two-bit money grabbing clowns like asra nomani and ayan hirsi are paraded around as trophies while a genuine scholar like edward said has to live his life as a marked man. this gora ploy however is not without costs which day by day is getting heavier.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,1930687,00.html

We have turned Iraq into the most hellish place on Earth

Armies claiming to bring prosperity have instead brought a misery worse than under the cruellest of modern dictators

#68 macaca arjun doesnt give a s

---

about us Pakistanis. oh no!! we are ruined!!


ha! ha!

Re: # 65
You counted them personally.-) I`d say there were 700,000 in may 2002 when there was a bit of tension with a neighbouring country don`t you think. Had to get all those fauji types over there right quick to look squiggly eyed at our neighbours. There are fewer now, but we do need them to flush out all those chaps coming over the LOC.

Now let`s not all get our knickers in a twist. This article is about that problem on the other side of the Pakistani border.

#71 i met a kashmiri from occupied kashmir who said the indian army is all over the place there. i asked him who were the individuals behind the violence - and he said it was nearly all local kashmiris who were fed up of the manner in which the indian military behaved with the civilians. and i can believe what he said about the brutality of the indian army towards muslims in kashmir after seeing the spite and hatreds towards muslims exhibited by so many indians on chowk.

so rest assured that it is not without reason that the indian government has refused to allow kashmiris the right to decide whether to join india or pakistan or become a free nation - it knows that kashmiris would never agree to be part of a nation where there is so much hatred towards muslims.

bringing facts to you attention is not getting my knickers in a twist.

David Ignatius writing Iraq obituary in Washington post today!

“The real opportunity presented by the Baker-Hamilton process is that it`s bipartisan. To get most American troops out of Iraq over the next year will require more patience at home, and a lot less partisan bickering. And our politicians will need strong stomachs: They must manage an orderly retreat under fire. There is a path out of this mess, but we will be lying if we call it victory.”

Just a couple of years ago this same Ignatius wrote:

“In truth, Iraq is probably more ready for democracy than any nation in the Arab world.
And the talk of Iraq`s internecine strife is overblown, too.``

``A war in Iraq could trigger a new economic boom or a deeper slump. But most of the downside risk is already built into oil prices. So if forced to wager where prices will be in a year, a sensible gambler would bet on a price decline -- and a corresponding boost to the global economy. ``

``That`s why Saddam Hussein is likely to seek a defiant and probably suicidal last stand, like the famous American battle of the Alamo. He has few other viable choices. He is damned if he doesn`t capitulate to the U.N. inspectors and damned if he does. ``

My! My! Oh lala!

Ignatius has blood on his hands. He and every pundit who saw war as a fking video game.(like macaca #63) Cowards, the lot of them. And they dare try to lecture people on Afghanistan today? The nerve.

They would soon be writing obituaries about Afghanistan too…

#71 i met a kashmiri from occupied kashmir who said the indian army is all over the place there. i asked him who were the individuals behind the violence - and he said it was nearly all local kashmiris who were fed up of the manner in which the indian military behaved with the civilians. and i can believe what he said about the brutality of the indian army towards muslims in kashmir after seeing the spite and hatreds towards muslims exhibited by so many indians on chowk.

so rest assured that it is not without reason that the indian government has refused to allow kashmiris the right to decide whether to join india or pakistan or become a free nation - it knows that kashmiris would never agree to be part of a nation where there is so much hatred towards muslims.

bringing facts to you attention is not getting my knickers in a twist.

#72
Obviously it is not anti-Muslim to burn down Afghan schools and coerce Afghans to submit to your Jamat I Ulema Pakistan goons so that your President can get another term in office.

further to #74: and i had this chat with this indian kashmiri over eid just a couple of days ago. i dont care about what the pakistan government says or what the indian government says. if you need a huge military force to keep down unrest in the local population - as this man told me was the case - then you have no moral claims.

and while i have seen many indians on chowk self-righteously talk about ``cross-border terrorism``, the facts make their talk hollow as far as i am concerned. the only cross-border terrorism is indians coming to chowk to vent their hatred and ridicule of pakistanis and muslims.

#76
Why did it take the Pak Army and Pak volunteers and so many Pak slogans of Islam to keep Taliban in power in Afghanistan for 6 years, with mass killings of Hazaras, Uzbeks and even Pashtuns who refused to toe the line?
That is the question being addressed here which cannot be avoided by Pakis by bringing in Kashmir which is another place where the Pakistani Army thinks it will get a walkover by expressing outrage.

Sadna and others,

For Pakistani gentlemen in Pakistan and abroad &
Paaki macacas in Paakiland and outside Paakilund as well.


http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006410854,00.html


>>>By OLIVER HARVEY
Reporter Of The Year
September 09, 2006

WHEN a journalist took his family for lunch recently in the Pakistani city of Peshawar, he was surprised to see two of Osama bin Laden’s bodyguards.

Writer Hamid Mir — who has interviewed the al-Qaeda chief three times — pretended not to recognise the duo as he enjoyed the meal.

Their boss is, after all, the world’s most wanted man, with a $25million bounty on his head — and Hamid did not want the pair to feel uneasy about the chance of being arrested.

But they had no such fears.

As Hamid chatted with his wife and children, the two well-built men approached him and said: “Nowadays you are ignoring us.” <<<<<


FOR FULL STORY PL TRY THE WEB PAGE.

An excellent summary by Reed Hundt….

Iraq rules

By Reed Hundt

These are also the rules derived from numerous other conflict-ridden, negotiated states in the last 100 years.

1. When the central government cannot control the countryside, it will eventually lose control in the cities as well.

2. A foreign army cannot provide security in the case of civil war.

3. It is uneconomic to use military force to obtain access to natural resources.

4. Democracy cannot be imposed on a people by a foreign military force.

5. Economic development must precede democracy.

6. A great power should not directly fight guerrilla wars: it cannot use its great power in those situations and will suffer loss to its great power by embroiling itself in such conflicts. If it must engage in such conflicts, it must use surrogates.

7. Airwar cannot provide security; it can be used to preclude the formation of large massings of soldiers, materiel, or other airforces.

8. Police have to speak the language of those policed.

9. The United States has more important national security issues than those presented in the Middle East, as important as those may be.

10. The White House really should let the generals run wars.

Re:tahmed#74

[...fed up of the manner in which the indian military behaved with the civilians....]

Sure, and the Pak army is having a company picnic in Baluchistan, right? It shoves a missile up a political leader`s a$$ and kills him and his followers ruthlessly. Just hold a referendum in Baluchistan, and majority will vote to leave Pakistan. So lets not play the holier than thou card here.

The issue is not holding on to reluctant territory or peoples. Both countries do that. The issue is the eagerness in Pakistan to support the filth of the world - Taliban - a second time around. If you dont think that is a huge tactical/strategic mistake, what can I say. Here you have a neighboring country Afghanistan, that has installed a democratically elected government which is trying to rebuild the country and give a decent life to its people. This is after decades of war. Instead of supporting them and giving the Afghan people a break, what do you Pakis do? Support the taliban to destabilize him and keep the Afghans in the dumps. All in the name of Islam too!! But dont worry. It will just blow back on you guys and you will ultimately pay the price.

#80 do you agree that what this indian kashmiri told me is true?

``Here you have a neighboring country Afghanistan, that has installed a democratically elected government which is trying to rebuild the country and give a decent life to its people.``

HAHAHAHAH!

Can`t step outside of Kabul though...

Sadna,

Does this Hizra Paaki (spelling is right I think) is speaking for Taliban?

Re: # 76
One Indian Kashmiri does not a summer make. The Indian army is not full of angels and we are never going to solve that issue by force. For that you need a nice totalitarian government as in those Chinese friends that you chaps keep talking about. It`s good to be a Muslim separatist in Xinjiang.

But this article is not about Kashmir. There are tons of Afghan people who hate Pakistanis, those poor innocent lambs.

And we are all getting our knickers in a twist with poor Ms.Pande who`s using chowk as a trial run for her university articles.

But then where would we be without jingoism. C`mon tahmed admit it, garve se kaho hum jingo hai.

#84 either this man was telling the truth or else he was not. it doesnt matter how many kashmiris it takes to make a summer.

while no doubt there is finger-pointing going on between mush and karzai, the indian government is merely trying to get mileage out of it. it is easy for indians to think that everyone is like the indians and hates pakistanis - as for the average afghan, there are millions of them who were quite happy to make pakistan their home. for pathan afghans and baluch afghans - pakistan is merely the better developed part of their homeland.

Re: # 85
Come now we don`t hate Pakistanis.

We likes pakistanis, as Smeagol said to Frodo.

``Hizra ``

Macaca #83

Jindababad!

#86 That (about indians hating pakistanis) was just for dramatic affect. ;-)

Hizra Paaki Macaca,

Well said. U & ur country die and we live.

Nameless faceless coward Hizra Paaki,

Murdabad.

#89 macaca

``Hizra Paaki``

Jindabad again!

Have you seen that movie janzeer? Zia bahaduri and amitabh....

Paaki Macaca,

I dont see movies much. What bt u?

Whay r u nameless and faceless? Ar u a coward or u look ugly & ur name reflects ur rootless identity?

Paaki Macaca,

Though u dont have topi on ur bulb, u keep topi on ur head (ur ilog)?

U really dance like a monkey. Dont u?