Pakistan's Afghan Policy

Re: # 1 by HP:

``The long-term solution in Afghanistan is to divide that country along the ethnic lines and Pakistan should take over Eastern Afghanistan directly or through proxies. ``

That (and a bit more) happened during the rule of the Taliban (proxy). So:

1. What do you mean by ``solution``?

2. Why did the ``Pakistan army (make a) serious mistakes when it supported the Mujahideen and later Taliban in Afghanistan``?

Re: # 1

Yaar HP. Your last line, that afghanistan should be divided on ethnic lines. Maza Aagaya, this what I have been thinking for a long time. That is the only solution. I agree 100% with you.....

Another one of those articles which starts with Pakistan’s afghan policy and ends up with Khasi obsession of Kashmir by every macaca.

First, let us look at some comments that really show ignorance and probably are part of the propaganda campaign by the Khasi govt. I don’t know Mr. Pande’s background but the article mostly consist of Khasi govt talking points that are regurgitated every nine months when the pangs reach the highest level.

Ahmed Rashid perhaps wrote it once but it is repeated by Khasi authors so many times that one wonders whether Khasi authors only have spaghetti for brain.

Mr. Pande quotes Ahmed Rashid, “and tacit connivance of the Pakistani border guards forms the basis of Pakistani help.”

So, this “tacit connivance” is the source of all the problems. In that case, one needs to ask a simple question: what the eff the NATO, the US, The British and the Karzai guards do on the other side of the border or now Pakistanis guard both sides of the border.

These mindless political analysts keep repeating this nonsense because that is something they like to repeat and never use their (non existing) shrunk dot infested brains to ask themselves as to how that is possible. What a moron!

If Pakistan is providing support to Taliban, it will not use regular borders manned by Guards on both sides.

“Afghanistan was created as a buffer state between the British and Russian empires.”

Another thoughtless comment! Who the eff created the buffer state? The British perceived Afghan as a buffer state. However, there is no historical evidence that the British actually had that as some kind of strategy. Remember that in the late 19th century, the British fought to control Afghanistan and finally settled for some influence over the Shah in Kabul. British never controlled Afghanistan. So how in the hell were they going to create Afghanistan as a buffer state? Some creative British historian in an attempt to cover up their beating in Afghanistan created this buffer state bogey.

The God like reverence to gora by Khasis leads them to accept whatever the British said without thinking about it.

Pakistan has a legitimate role to play in Afghanistan. Pakistan has historic relations and shares ethnicity with Afghanistan. Half the Pakistanis including people in Punjab, Sindh and Balochistan trace their roots to Afghanistan. Afghanistan economy for centuries is tied with trade with the areas that are now Pakistan. Afghanistan’s economy still depends on Pakistan. They can`t even sell opium w/o Pakistani help.

Pakistan army made serious mistakes when it supported the Mujahideen and later Taliban in Afghanistan but since then lots things have changed. Now there is no force in Afghanistan that can keep peace there and the US and NATO have begun to realize that.

You cannot have a government in Kabul representing eastern Afghanistan without Pakistan support. The NATO or the US cannot remain in Afghanistan indefinitely but Afghanistan will always have to share borders with Pakistan. The long-term solution in Afghanistan is to divide that country along the ethnic lines and Pakistan should take over Eastern Afghanistan directly or through proxies.

Re: # 2 by ally:

`` .... if you Indians actually showed you cared and helped those Pakistani people that are trying for the above policy change instead of constantly attacking us at every given opportunity thereby distancing even those Pakistani people that are of the same viewpoint as yourselves.``

I do not know the motive of the author. But if what you suggest were to come true then the status-quo would change in both the countries. And we know that a lot of powerful people (or people who would have something to loose) do not want to move from this comfort zone.

You`re just re-iterating a version of history... people in Pak have been trying to work towards this for a long time, nothing new here... what would be new is if you Indians actually showed you cared and helped those Pakistani people that are trying for the above policy change instead of constantly attacking us at every given opportunity thereby distancing even those Pakistani people that are of the same viewpoint as yourselves.

Instead of writing blah blah like the above (which have been written many times over in many countries in many languages) try writing an article that explains to your Indian countrymen the value of trying to connect and actively help those Pakistani people who want to resolve Pakistan`s issues in a peaceful and open manner.

Articles like this that regurgitate various news items, constantly telling us what to do make me a tad peeved, as the first thing that comes to mind is `Dont you think we already know this woman! and why didn`t you guys listen to us before Pakistan bashing became a fashion?` In some way or the other you all helped and contributed to this along with Amreeka and Yurop, if not logistically or financially then by generating the hate required for it. Now you`re telling us, the general Pakistani whom has zip control or significance to do something about it... the cheek! Where were you guys when the generals and dictators came into power and hung our elected PM`s, when we had coup after coup? When slowly but surely every little bit of control and democracy was taken away from those that reside there? And now you have the cheek to tell us to `fix it`!!!

Well Bibi i could use the choicest of Punjabi but i shall refrain, as it wont really get us anywhere. Ms Aparna Pandey, how do you expect those people whose back has been broken by their own govt. (supported by many other 3rd countries) to fix the sh*t you (and us) don`t like?

You ppl sit accros the border all snug, vengeful, and full of hate, ever thought of actually reaching out to the people of Pakistan? Your Bollywood is in every Pakistani home, but you still produce cr*p films like Border etc. that do nothing to help ordinary people to people relations.

Until you guys are sincere about helping us, then shove this article where the sun don`t shine!

A

Re:HP#1

[...Khasi obsession of Kashmir by every macaca....]

What the heck is ``Khasi`` obsession? Khasis are a tribe in Northeast India in Meghalaya. As far as I know, they have no interest in Kashmir.

The long-term solution in Afghanistan is to divide that country along the ethnic lines and Pakistan should take over Eastern Afghanistan directly or through proxies.


What If the pashtun in afghanistan form their own country and take over the pashtun parts of Pakistan?

Taliban slap taxes in Miramshah

By Our Correspondent

MIRAMSHAH, Oct 22: The Taliban on Sunday imposed their brand of penalties for various acts which they deemed to be offences and levied ‘taxes’ on businesses.

The Taliban, who recently opened their offices in Miramshah after signing a peace deal with the government, also proclaimed a vast area around the Miramshah town to be their ‘area of operations’ and ‘banned’ all sorts of criminal activities around the North Waziristan Agency headquarters.

The Taliban Shura, headed by Maulvi Abdul Wahid, distributed pamphlets spelling out their policies. The pamphlets were also pasted on walls around the town.

All Taliban factions operating in the North Waziristan Agency are represented in the Shura.

The Taliban proclaimed that maintenance of law and order and punishing crimes in the area between Miramshah-Ghulam Khan road and Deerdani checkpoint-I, Miramshah and the Tablighee Markaz and Miramshah and Mirali road would be their responsibility.

The Taliban would devise punishments for different crimes and would award death for death according to the Shariat. Likewise, people committing other crimes in the area would also been punished according to Islamic jurisprudence.

For robberies and thefts, the Shura prescribed fine amounting to Rs500,000 and two-month prison term for the offenders.

Acoording to the ‘tax schedule’ issued by the Taliban, every 10-wheeler truck entering the agency would have to pay Rs1,500 for allowing them six-month road access, while six-wheeler trucks would pay Rs1,000 twice a year.

Petrol pump owners, the pamphlet said, would have to pay Rs5,000 to the Shura after every six months.

The ‘tax’ was titled ‘donation’ in the pamphlet appearing in the agency headquarters and would be at the sole disposal of the Taliban Shura. There was no mention how and where the money would be used.

{``1989 saw the Geneva Accords and the withdrawal of the Soviet Union from Afghanistan ``}

Ms. Pande,
This one line says everything about your viewpoint, how you reinvent history, and how you gloss over reality. This ``withdrawal of Soviet Union`` was more like a ``defeat of the Soviet Union.`` Almost the same thing, you say, but no quite. Your version puts a Russian-friendly tint on the ointment with which you chose to varnish this dead horse. If you can resort to such literary license with facts, it is no wonder that your entire article wreaks of RAW data. Please use more objectivity, more research, and less jingoism to become a bit more effective.

Re: # 9 by HP

Thanks for the informative post. At places you were very terse. Would appreciate if you could elaborate on the following two:

1. ``Gen Zia struggling under pressure in Pakistan after the coup in 1977, used Afghanistan as diversion, and sought help from his allies (fundos) in Pakistan who were against Bhutto too.``

How did he use Afghanistan? (In answering this question, do not assume any knowledge on my part. Alternately you may provide a reference that you like.)

2. ``Afghanistan has always been a religiously conservative country.``

Do you mean tribalistic? How did these tribes interact with the central authority of the king?

#4 by GT
“That (and a bit more) happened during the rule of the Taliban (proxy). So:
1. What do you mean by ``solution``?”

The Long and the short answers:
The short answer: there is no other choice.

The long answer is rooted in the history of the conflict.
The afghan conflict started with Gen Zia struggling under pressure in Pakistan after the coup in 1977, used Afghanistan as diversion, and sought help from his allies (fundos) in Pakistan who were against Bhutto too. The US and the Soviets joined in. Pakistan did not have some ambitious goals in Afghanistan to start with. They only wanted the left government to disappear. Pakistan army never had any strategic depth ideas before the afghan conflict so that too was an after thought.

Afghanistan has always been a religiously conservative country. Pushtoon overwhelmingly (barring hamid) are conservative. The Kings in Kabul stayed away from religion and they never really interfered in the religious affairs. Even the so-called communists during their brief history did not try to go against the religion.

Presently, we can say that before the 70s, the afghans were passively religious conservative and politically inactive. The 30 years of civil war has politicalized Afghans completely. Since the religion is the only politically ideology that dominates the afghan daily life, they are now aggressively religious political activists.

Only a religio-political group can at this moment, provide the leadership to the current Afghanistan. No matter how much we cry from the outside, the reality is that the current Afghanistan is an extremely conservative political entity and the Afghans would only accept leadership from the people that are like them. Since there is no other political entity in Afghanistan that can claim those credentials, the only choice is obvious.

“2. Why did the ``Pakistan army (make a) serious mistakes when it supported the Mujahideen and later Taliban in Afghanistan``?”

Pakistan should have avoided making the conflict global. They lost handle over the issue once it became global and later they tried to cover it up by creating Taliban. The Purcham (communist) coup in Afghanistan had no support outside of some small circles in Kabul and could have been easily politically defeated from within. But the Pak army tried to use the afghan situation to shore up support in Pakistan and continued to make mistakes that ended up in Pakistani quagmire in Afghanistan. The army though is learning fast.

you can watch the entire program online:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/taliban/

Re HP #9
“Presently, we can say that before the 70s, the afghans were passively religious conservative and politically inactive. The 30 years of civil war has politicalized Afghans completely. Since the religion is the only politically ideology that dominates the afghan daily life, they are now aggressively religious political activists.

Only a religio-political group can at this moment, provide the leadership to the current Afghanistan. No matter how much we cry from the outside, the reality is that the current Afghanistan is an extremely conservative political entity and the Afghans would only accept leadership from the people that are like them. Since there is no other political entity in Afghanistan that can claim those credentials, the only choice is obvious.”

I believe that the civil war in Afghanistan has polarized the society, not sure if it has politicized it. Why do you feel that it is not possible to have a stable political environment after a reasonable period of stability, say 15 years of international involvement.

Regards,

Faruk

Dear Aparna,

Taliban are the indigenous people of Afghanistan. This is a simple fact that India has failed to comprehend. India jumped in bed with a secular minority that owes power to foreign troops, who will inevitably leave one day. Just like the Russians.

OTOH, Pakistan`s policy of making peace with Taliban moderates is sensible and correct for both Pakistan and Afghanistan. All sections of Afghan society must cooperate to rid the country of warlords, anarchy, opium and foreign (read ``Indian``) interference. Tajiks, Uzbeks and Hazaras cannot lord it over the Pashtun Taliban forever.

It is India, not Pakistan, that needs to rectify its Afghan policy by taking the following steps:
(a) Come to terms with the Taliban
(b) Stop interfering in Afghan affairs
(c) Give up designs of using Afghan territory against Pakistan

Its laughable to see the Pakistani Paindoos still drooling over the Taliban. The Taliban managed to ruin Pakistan in the nineties with their jihadi fever and their support to OBL. If it were not for Musharraf, Pakiland might have been another Iraq today. Yet the paindoos want to put their money on the same set of losers, as if the world will just sit back and let the Taliban win in Afghanistan.

Push comes to shove, US will just use tactical nukes on Southern Afghanistan. Given US tendency to use daisy cutters to disintegrate Taliban, its just one notch above that to use tactical nukes on the Taliban. By the way it is delightful to imagine those bearded, filthy taliban getting nuked. Thats what I call exterminating vermin.

Ref HP #1

[You cannot have a government in Kabul representing eastern Afghanistan without Pakistan support. The NATO or the US cannot remain in Afghanistan indefinitely but Afghanistan will always have to share borders with Pakistan. The long-term solution in Afghanistan is to divide that country along the ethnic lines and Pakistan should take over Eastern Afghanistan directly or through proxies.]

The REAL long-term solution is to accept the fact that the Durand Line was imposed on Afganistan and for Pakistan to cede all Pushtun territories back to Afghanistan as the Afghans want.

The resulting state of Pakistan can be seen at: http://afghanland.com/history/durrand.html

That would put paid to wet dreams of ``strategic depth`` by Pakistan`s General Staff.

Pakistan would become the client state of Afghanistan as it currently is in all but name only.

Let me quote from that article: “Pakistan is a completely superfluous and artificially created spot on the world map that has become a breeding ground for extremism, and trouble that would be best done away with.”

Ref ally #2

[Articles like this that regurgitate various news items, constantly telling us what to do make me a tad peeved, as the first thing that comes to mind is `Dont you think we already know this woman! and why didn`t you guys listen to us before Pakistan bashing became a fashion?` In some way or the other you all helped and contributed to this along with Amreeka and Yurop, if not logistically or financially then by generating the hate required for it. Now you`re telling us, the general Pakistani whom has zip control or significance to do something about it... the cheek! Where were you guys when the generals and dictators came into power and hung our elected PM`s, when we had coup after coup? When slowly but surely every little bit of control and democracy was taken away from those that reside there? And now you have the cheek to tell us to `fix it`!!!]

Sweetheart, we Indians feel your pain. But what would you like us to do? Invade Pakistan?
There is very little India can do overtly to help get rid of the Pak Army`s control of Pakistan.

The people of Pakistan will have to do it themselves. Perhaps you folks can adopt Gandhi`s method (Yasser, dear boy, I know this is going to drive you nuts) of non-cooperation. Jinnah`s approach of talks with the Army isn`t going to work. If millions upon millions march in Karachi, Lahore, Islamabad, Peshawar and Quetta demanding that the Army go back to the barracks, maybe the Army would listen. Exactly how many can they arrest and jail? And in these days of camcorders in every hand, how many demonstrators can they kill before Pakistan is hauled up before the UN?

Indians didn`t generate any hatred against Pakistan in the US and in Europe. That has been done by the Pakistanis themselves who slit the throats of their daughters, be it in London or Oslo, who dared to go against the wishes of their parents. They do it in the name of family honor but worse, they do it in the name of Islam. That means the crimes of the Egyptians, the Saudis, the Yemenis in the name of Islam such as 9/11 come to haunt all Muslims.

What Pakistan -- for that matter, Afghanistan and most other -stans -- requires is education. Education that lifts up and frees the spirit of its people. Education that teaches that religion and piety are personal matters that have no business intruding in matters of state or even between people. Education that teaches that the poorest man is equal to the richest in the eye of the Law.

It is sad Pakistan has wasted nearly two generations of its youth on unattainable goals such as getting Kashmir or retaining Bangladesh, in the process giving its Army power over the country.

If we know how to dismount a tiger without getting killed, we would be willing to tell you the secret. But we don`t.