The Calculus of Miscalculated Human Misery

ڪ پاڪستان لاءِ به اطمينان بخش نظر نٿي اچي. ڇاڪاڻ ته گذريل ڪجهه عرصي دران ڪلچرل قبيلائي علائقن مان نڪري اقتدار ۽ طاقت جي مرڪز اسلام آباد تائين پهتل انتهاپسندن في الحال ته منظر نامو بدلائي ڇڏيو آهي. ميلوڊي ۽ آبپاره جي وچ تي قائم ڳاڙهي مسجد المعروف لال مسجد جي برقعا پوش ڏنڊا بردار مذهبي خواتين پاران روڊن تي نڪري اچي پوليس اهلڪارن کي يرغمال بڻائڻ ۽ ٽن عورتن تي بدڪرداريءَ جي تهمت هڻي کين زوريءَ گهر مان کنڀي اچي مدرسي ۾ واڙي ڇڏڻ، حڪومتي عملداريءَ کي چئلينج ڪرڻ نه سڏجي ته ان کي ڪهڙو نالو ڏجي؟

Re: # 86 drags this discussion into hindustani mud by saying ``Why not? You`re both getting your citizens whacked by CIA hellfires...``.

Hindustan takes the cake when it comes to whacking the citizens. Government (be it provincial or federal) continues to ``whack`` its citizens. The examples off course are too numerous to list in the chowk.

This however is not meant to gloat over killing unlike our dear poster. Nay! This is just a reminder for our enlightened writers from Hindustan about their ``glass house``.

#85 by taikonaut on November 19, 2006 4:19pm PT


Pakistan`s resources and geostrategic location is not comparable to Afghanistan.


Why not? You`re both getting your citizens whacked by CIA hellfires...

Re: # 84 Nearer home examples of ``stans`` i.e. Afghanistan or Hindustan sound good but they are inaccurate. Pakistan`s resources and geostrategic location is not comparable to Afghanistan. Afghanistan is a tiny landlocked country that was historically dirt poor. Hindustani example is a bit far fetched too. The ``deal`` that Hindustanis got is more for civilian purposes. As far as bombs are concerned Pakistan and Hindustan both have parity on it.

There are specific reasons why we can`t be like Hindustanis, otherwise Pakistanis would not have separated to begin with. South Korea is a much better role model for Pakistan as both have stronger free market approach compared to Hindustan. Sure we have IT business growing in Hindustan but there is a natural cap on IT. Our target growth rates need much more open economies and Hindustani communists won`t allow that to happen.

Anyway thanks for appreciating my point. North Korea vs. South Korea example is good to show two people who are exactly alike (language, religion, history etc.). Yet the North is a basket case, while South is in the top 10 economies of the world.

Thanks.

Re: # 83

``So for Pakistanis it is the decision time. Be like North Koreans or Palestinians and lose your territory or your prosperity or both.``(taikonaut)

this commendable thought can be brought a little nearer home than faraway North Korea and Venezuela -- the countries who are niether going to lose their shirt nor their territory.

Nearer home -- the sentiment may sound like this and still be pertinent -- ``So for Pakistanis it is the decision time. Be like Talibans of Afghanistan and lose your territory or your prosperity or both.`` -- or be like Hindustan where the super power will give you all the nuclear bombs you need or -- you don`t need.

Great that the author has come to the reality. Our world is a dynamic place and Utopian peace is possible only in small chunks of time. Even Allah Mian had to deal with shaitan so who are we the mere mortals to face the new shaitans like bin laden.

In any dynamic environment there are opportunities to become prosperous, or the possibility to lose your shirt.

Smart men (and women) will be prosperous in these times. Just see the examples of Japan, China, and South Korea. While the idiots in the Middle East, or countries like North Korea, and Venezuela will end up losing their shirts.

So for Pakistanis it is the decision time. Be like North Koreans or Palestinians and lose your territory or your prosperity or both.

Or we can be like South Koreans and become prosperous. The choice is ours.

This sentence quoted by BBC from Musharraf intrigues me:

``Mr Hussain -- said President Pervez Musharraf, who commuted the death sentence on Thursday to life imprisonment, -- ``had shown himself to be an enlightened man who has rectified this miscarriage of justice``.(BBC)

Mr. Hussain had shown himself to be an `enlightened` man who has rectified (shouldn`t be -- has borne with patience and fortitude?) this miscarriage of justice.

Perhaps like syntax challenged Mr. Bush -- Mr. Musharraf was actually talking about himself that -- Mr. Musharraf had shown himself to be an enlightened man who has rectified this miscarriage of justice......:)

This time the General can do all the self-praising self-patting he wants to, to his heart`s content -- and it will be ok -- with us.

``Death row Briton leaves Pakistan.

A British man who spent 18 years in a Pakistani jail has been freed and has flown out of the country, a day after his death sentence was lifted.

Mirza Tahir Hussain, 36, of Leeds, West Yorkshire, was convicted in 1989 of murdering a taxi driver, but always said the killing was in self-defence.

Mr Hussain -- said President Pervez Musharraf, who commuted the death sentence on Thursday to life imprisonment, -- ``had shown himself to be an enlightened man who has rectified this miscarriage of justice``.

Before Hussain was freed, there were pleas for clemency from the Prince of Wales, Prime Minister Tony Blair, European politicians and human rights groups.” -- and most importantly from.........Chowk

``ISLAMABAD: President Pervez Musharraf commuted on Thursday the death sentence of British national Mirza Tahir Hussain, officials said, paving the way for his likely release from jail after 18 years awaiting the hangman’s noose.

Mirza Tahir Hussain, 36, will instead be given a life sentence for the 1988 murder of a taxi driver, meaning the 36-year-old could be eligible to go free from jail because of the time he has already served in prison.``

yet another feather in `Kulah-e Musharraf`.....the MAN is on the roll.

Good News.

In Pakistan RAPE of a woman is `NOW` (baRee der kee mehrebaaN atay atay) a Penal offence -- like most of the civilized world -- not any more a Religious Porn to be watched by 4 voyeur Mullahs.

That God`s refuse Fazulu-rahman did not take kindly to his being deprived of his Islamic right to watch the ``Sex Act`` -- of a Pakistani woman being brutally raped -- with three of his MMA colleagues -- Qazi Ahmed -- Maulana Samiulhaque -- and that shame of a Baloch, Liaquet Baloch -- Fazulu walked out in a huff from the National Assembly during the passage of the Bill.

one only hopes Fazulu hangs himself by the nearest neem tree out of dire disappointment and depression!

my compliments to that (andhoN maiN Kaana raja) Musharraf -- for introducing the long overdue Bill and Benazir for supporting it wholeheartedly.

and for that bill-opposing idiot -- the mullawannabe -- the shariati (ghair) Sharif ......the less said the better.

At least for all who live in America the beautiful, the land of the free and the home of the brave, the bastion of human happiness, there is even more good news. There is no CONSTITUTIONAL provision nor ANY STATUTE of federal law that LEGALLY REQUIRES any wage earner or salaried employee to file his/her federal income tax return. No kidding. (More below, just in a minute.)

This may not appear as a relevent point in this particular discussion, but if one examines the deeper roots of these ``clash of civilizations`` type issues, then the connections are discernable, but with some diligence. It becomes possible to see the present day ``religious`` and ``national`` conflicts as mere symptoms of a greater struggle between individual liberty and centralized control. This ``centralized control`` could be of any flavor. Ideologies, particularly religions, attempt to promote a mind-set that is subservient to some (real or imagined) authority and discourage the exercise of individual liberty. Centralized control of individual conduct is thus sought through indoctrination of the particular ideology. But religious fundamantalists or militants are a spent cartridge. They don`t have any real power in this world, except the power of cause minor disruptions here or there. The more dangerous form of centralized control that threatens individual liberty around the world, including inside America, is the immense force and invisible global control of money power. Actually, the threat is most grave inside America simply because Americans have more to loose. The poor Somalis or Rawandans, by comparison, have already a lot less to loose. The American government is merely the instrument.


Click here to see a video documentary that starts by telling about the money stealing frauds that the US establishment has perpetuated. The first issue addressed in that income tax filing is not required under the law. ``Rubbish`` is what I said when I first heard it. The IRS is a real monster that no one can deny. But the documentary shows (besides much else) interviews of former IRS agents who confirm this. There is also an interview of a former jurors in a tax case. The jury aquitted the defendent because of the absence of any statutory requirement to file a 1040... There were IRS regulations, but the defendent successfully argued, based on supreme court rulings that he had not broken the law.

But this is not all.

This video documentary (the same video as above) also details the role of a private banking cartel that most believe is only a government agency and is subject to the normal checks and balances by the peoples representatives.

Unfortunately, its a long video. The size of a full length feature film. But I think it will be well worth the time. It has good entertainment and information value. Turn your speaker volume up.

God bless America.

...SR

Let this be the Humble Pie that these Paki Islamists require on their face regarding Iraq-


1. Start hundreds of civilian multi parties without religious agendas.
2. Conduct elections where parties cannot compete on religious and non-secular agendas.
3. Do not give any credence to militant groups. Outright ban them as out laws.
4. Promulgate a secular constitution with no reference to Islamic laws.
5. Arrest all the mullahs and send them to gitmos without worrying about anything else.

the moment Islamists find themselves debarred from sharing the power they would run and hide in their rat holes and blow themselves up to heavens............

#68 by HP on November 14, 2006 12:13pm PT


Here is my plan that is under discussion on another forum right now.


Goatbrain...why don`t you offer up a plan to get the CIA to stop whacking pakis on paki soil..and your army from pathetically firing on mountains to take the blame...

jo bechtay thay daw-e dil voh dukaan apni buRhaa gaye haiN

this presidency is a dying presidency -- it is going to stink the place before its rotting carcass is removed from the premises and buried deep after 2008 -- and the place disinfected and sterilized once again....with myriads of about to begin court cases......the Bush war criminal cabal is going to be under `country arrest` for years to come...unable to travel abroad for fear of arrest at foreign airports for torture and crimes against humanity........

Re: # 61
MASADI when did you become this

``am willing to pay whatever it takes to win this war - the alternatives are too unpredictable and scary .......... but it must be complete and total victory - none of this `phased redeployment` crap .........``(hamidm)

let`s nuke them worthless Iraqis -- how dare they fight the Americans baRa sahibs -- fused-spined stupid bastards -- why can`t they bend and make a normal U turn like Musharraff did

let`s evapora them.......

.....especially after the American voters just gave their `thumping` mandate to that -- bushier than bush -- crazy macaca macane -- for a `complete and total victory`......

An exchange abt my post #68 on another forum.

HP

Who do you see serving up this humble pie? What makes you think the president will eat it? I guess the Rumsfeld firing might be one indication that he`s prepared to change direction in some way, but I cannot believe that there will be any substantive change.

The US has no relations with Iran and Syria. Iran and Syria have absolutely no incentive to do anything but wait and watch as the US armed forces are depleted. The UN just got a fresh snub this week with the lame duck Bolton appointment.

Woodward reported that Bush was staying the course no matter what. He may well agree to claim to be undertaking yet another approach--sending Condi around the world again, say. But there is no evidence I can see that would lead me to believe that there will substantial withdrawals any time soon.

In the spirit of hope, I can make a constructive suggestion to add to your list: make sure a substantial fraction of oil revenues goes directly to citizens. This will lessen the Sunnis fear of impoverishment and will create a disincentive for interfering with production.

Posted by: Jay Ackroyd at November 14, 2006 | Permalink to this comment

My response

Jay,

As I see it, we have prepared the humble pie already and now it is up to our new reps to serve it. I doubt that the elections were an exercise in futility. However, we will surely see a lot of resistance from the administration but the public opinion at this time is not on their side. Sending the armies out on a war is relatively easy but the task of bringing them back without a victory can get nasty. Since there is no hope for a victory in Iraq, the public opinion would continue to bear down on the admin and the Congress to bring the troops home.

Your pessimism is well founded but the events on the ground and the forces of change are stronger. I doubt that there is any sane American left out there who would relish the status quo in Iraq.

Once the administration accepts the notion of change, it is everyone’s job to keep them moving in the right direction. This admin will continue to slide downwards on a slippery slope and that will give plenty of opportunities to the right-minded people to press home the advantage.

I know the admin has a huge mental block about talking with Iran and Syria and that is why I think either the UN or a focus group consisting of the countries I mentioned, would perhaps help break the ice. I am sure you are aware of some rendition flights that took some terrorists to Syria and back. So, the US does have a channel open to talk to Syria.

There is no solution in Iraq that will take less than a year. So initially, a timetable for one year would probably get the ball rolling.

“Iran and Syria have absolutely no incentive to do anything but wait and watch as the US armed forces are depleted.”

I don’t subscribe to that. The situation in Iraq also creates problems for both countries. In a civil war like the one we have in Iraq, the warring groups seek new hideouts and the fights begin to spillover in the neighboring countries. The ongoing civil war in Iraq may create refugee situation for both countries too. Lastly, no country cherishes living next to a war zone.

The US withdrawal from Iraq would establish Iran as a regional power and I think Iran would prefer that the US armies leave the area.

Posted by: HP at November 14, 2006 | Permalink to this comment

Okay Hamidm,

How much time do you need to finish them off?

Now I am not privy to the information abt the insurgents, but recently the US army concluded they are abt 30,000. Now 150,000 strong US army is trying to get to these 30 k for the 3 1/2 years. For you alone, it may take couple of hundred years. So go ahead and make their day!

Btw, where did I show any faith in arabs? All I said was, ``let all groups in Iraq start talking about the future.`` the talks could go on for years that wouldn’t bother me. I want my fellow citizens in the US army back home.

They don`t deserve to be with Arabs for an extended period of time. They might pick up bad habits and that might cause an increase in gay population in the US that is already hovering around 10%. Notice how gay population increased after the Vietnam war!

``but it will require a lot of patience on part of the american public and a gag order on the lunatic fringe of the democratic party ``

HAHAHA! They own the US now! It is time for the lunatic fringe of the republican party to hide in some sheep farm in the south and have sex there too. I hope you get an internet connection at the farm!

Let`s face it, the pullout is going to happen.

Re: # 68

hp,

.................. i admire your faith in the ayrab`s ability to solve his own problem, but i think it is wishful thinking ............ the important questions are : how many insurgents are there ? 20 thousand ? 50 thousand ? ..... and what will it take to exterminate them ? half a million troops ? a million ? ......... i think that once the militias are disarmed and half the insurgents exterminated, the iraqis will be able to put things together with supervision from a us/un force - something like bosnia ........... but it will require a lot of patience on part of the american public and a gag order on the lunatic fringe of the democratic party .........

hamidm,

The alternatives are very much predictable, and of course they are quite scary. It will get worst before it gets better.

Here is my plan that is under discussion on another forum right now.

The Baker-Hamilton group is looking for a new approach to forge a bipartisan consensus on Iraq. Bob Gates appointment is perhaps the first step in correcting the military disaster that has befallen the US due to that incompetent fool Rumsfeld, who wanted to be the military general and the civilian planner and ended up failing at both and led the US at the verge of a potentially humiliating situation. Now at least Bob Gates, a consummate bureaucrat, would let the Generals make the military decisions and his job would be to sell it to a restive and cynical US Congress and the US public.

The three ingredients needed for the new approach:

1. Make this arrogant administration eat the humble pie
2. Create a timetable for the US withdrawal
3. Negotiate with insurgents both local and foreigners and design some confidence building measures that can bring them to table to talk.

The Humble pie number 1:

Get the UN security council involved and let the security council members plus Iran, Syria and Saudi Arabia find ways to:
1. a political solution.
2. Prod UN members for creating a 100,000 strong Iraq peace force that will be ready to replace the US army in phases. (The US must bear all expenses for this force.)
This administration has badmouthed the UN so many times that going to the UN would be the last thing it would accept. To soften this blow, create a focus group of the same countries above outside of the UN.

Humble pie number 2.

A) Announce a timetable for the US withdrawal. Cheney would probably resign before he allows el Presidente to sign on this but this must be shoved down the administration’s throat. Otherwise, the disaster in Iraq will continue and there is no way the US public or the new Congress will wait for two more years of inaction in Iraq.
Once the timetable is announced and the UN forces are being assembled, start talking with the insurgents through intermediaries.

Negotiations:
Drop bucket loads of money for compensation for the dead Iraqis. Give the Sunni tribal leaders the authority to distribute money as they please. Ask Saudi Arabia to announce amnesty for it citizens that are fighting in Iraq. This is a little known secret but 90% of foreign insurgents in Iraq are perhaps Saudi citizens who blend with the local Iraqis well. The Baathist would also like them to leave the country.

Start deploying the UN forces in different Iraqi Provinces and seek cooperation from the tribal and religious leaders. Once the UN deployment is complete, let all groups in Iraq start talking about the future.

I think it can work in less than three Friedman units.


#65 by hamidm2
Hamidm, You can start a tv war of your own to achieve your objectives.

Re: # 66

urstruly,

..... i am not a bania and am willing to pay whatever it takes to win this war - the alternatives are too unpredictable and scary .......... but it must be complete and total victory - none of this `phased redeployment` crap .........

Re: # 65

I think universal baniya is lot smarter than you. At 4 billion dollars a week expense any baniya would run with his dhotti on his head. White people call it `cut and run`; I call it, moula bux peer ay vigray tigriaN daa - and it is quite obvious what Arabs have done with the moula bux - they have shoved it where sun doesn`t rise.

Re: # 64


hp,

........ in case you are wondering about my position on iraq after the elections, i would like to go on record and state that i am with john mccain on this one - we must do whatever it takes to win .........and winning means disarming all the militias, killing all the jihadists and if need be, having a us general (a la macarthur) run the country for the next twenty five years .......... if it takes a million men, so be it (i am willing to forgo my tax cut).........

as douglas macarthur said, ``it is fatal to enter any war without the will to win it`` and `` in war there is no substitute for victory``

.......... or as i would say, ``laton kay bhoot, baton say nahin mantey`` - you only have to look at urstruly`s post for validation of this postulate :)

#63
I may have some answers for you in a few hours. In the meantime, enjoys this great piece from the net.

``One can almost picture Bush or Cheney as Wile E. Coyote chasing the Roadrunner. You know the Looney Tunes classic: The delusional but ever optimistic Coyote runs out of land at about the same time his jet-powered Acme roller-skates sputter and die, and with eyes wide, realizes that he`s suddenly, briefly, suspended in midair. No matter what Wile E. does at that point, he`s in for a musical descent culminating in a tiny puff of smoke at the bottom of a long fall. After repeated failures, even a toddler comes to appreciate that the Coyote isn`t exactly where a self anointed supergenius should be on the learning curve. Indeed, Bush`s many blunders would make for some quality slapstick cartoon fun -- if they hadn`t cost the lives and limbs of real, flesh and blood, human beings.

When in trouble, call Daddy: Incoming Secretary of Defense Robert Gates will inherit an ill-conceived war marked by the stunning incompetence of Don Rumsfeld. It`s really difficult to judge which is more pathetic: That George Bush has to rely on Daddy`s friends to bail him (And the entire nation) out from the consequences of his own piss-poor decisions, again, or that Baker and Gates may now have to essentially beg Iran and Syria to pitch in and save the Bush Family name. Either way, the traditional media is all a twitter with headlines like `Bush Willing to Listen to Fresh Ideas on Iraq.` This is one of the better examples:

Sun News -- Taken together, the expanding roles of Baker and Gates appears to signal the return of foreign policy ``realists`` to positions of influence. Realists stress advancing U.S. interests by working with allies and avoiding idealistic policies, such as intervention in other countries to promote democracy. Most of the hawkish group that orchestrated the March 2003 invasion of Iraq, sometimes called neoconservatives, is gone, including Rumsfeld, former Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz and Pentagon aide Douglas Feith.
Jebus-Republican-Mega-Church-Christ, realism? Was Bush so sealed in fantasy bubble wrap, that he was unaware that everyone from Russ Feingold to Jack Murtha to Pat Buchannan to a slew of senior combat officers knew he`d gone off the cliff over two-thousand KIA`s ago?

Gates and Baker may bring a quasi-fresh perspective to George Bush, but it`s highly debatable if this President can face the humiliating fact that his hare-brained Iraq pipe-dream is DOA, and no amount of `fresh perspective` from old family confidants is going to re-animate that neocon corpus. The real question is if this egregiously overdue intervention by Bush senior will make any difference in the President`s policy, or if George W. Bush, supergenius, will doggedly drag untold thousands more, along with his own party, down with him to an all too real puff of smoke at the bottom of a long, tragic, fall.``

Iraq invasion could have been made good, despite the original reasons for it. Unfortunately circumstances and people involved have rendered the cause almost useless.

I have a few questions: If the US and UK withdraw ASAP as the jihadis and others want, what will be the result? Would the muslim-on-muslim carnage carry on? Would be there be out right civil war? Would the other local powers get involved? Are Iran and syria being called in to avoid local powers from being onvolved in the civil war in Iraq?

HP mian, Do you also suffer from the MASADI Complex?

HP mian, Do you also suffer from the MASADI Complex?

Only choutiyas would suggest that US is responsible for foisting dictators in countries like Pakistan.............that is nonsense........these dictators have come up because of the internal dynamics of these pure Islamic lands . To suggest that the coups , e.g that by Musharaff, was engineered with the help of US is like stretching our intelligence or even to suggest that US was distributing sweets on the streets of Islamabad after the coup is even more stupid suggestion................

The fact is that US has NOOOOOOOOOO control over these internal dynamics of Islamic purelands...............if that was so US would have got OBL and other terrorists hiding in Pakistan by now............this is another blame game and a favourite conspiracy theory foisted by the corrupt civilians , compradors and collaborators who have been profiting from the untramelled powers they share with the dictators.........................those who hoist this conspiracy theory want to hide THEIR OWN UNDEMOCRATIC, CRIMINAL ACTS BEHIND THIS CONSPIRACY THEORY of dictators, Criminals and Psycho Islamists coming to power because of US...............

These `educated` criminals from Pakistan are now getting exposed as the main actors and the puppetmasters behind the actions and workings of the criminal Islamists world wide..........

The fact of the matter is that getting out of Iraq is not going to be easy as US propaganda machinery is leading its people to believe once again. The first thing is that now every lallu panjoo from democrates to AlQaeda and in between would want their pound of flesh. Democrates would try their best to pin the disgrace of deafeat and retreat upon republic leadership. And it is written on the wall that republic leadership and especially bush would have to swallow their own excrement. The most arrogant fcuks like Rumsfeldt and Bolton have been thoroughly disgraced and Cheney is next. My guess is that chenney will backstab Rice and bush will outdo both.

At macro-level with the collpse of the empire, a new world order is bound to emerge. I anticipate more violence in the next 4-5 years in almost everywhere. The crumbling powers will try to salvage what they can, but unfortunately it is too late now. US may not disintegrate like USSR but I see that it is going to be crushed with its own weight. The probability of a Muslim holocaust in Europe has doubled now. The days of West propped brutal dictatorship and the annihilation of a westernized social class are now an inevitability.

#57,
You are just parroting what I wrote about a year ago on this site. Your terminology as usual is vulgar. However, Saddam was never popular in Ummah. Iraqis were punished for being Arabs but they have literally turned the tables and it is the US, which is being humiliated in Iraq and the Arab world now.

That is a bigger disaster and the ummah types would love the day the US leaves Iraq in humiliation. The incompetence of the current administration led to this situation. The invasion of Iraq was done in isolation but the retreat will have consequences.

Now leaving Iraq would not be decided in isolation but would be a part of the overall policy in the region. That will create substantially bigger problems to deal with. But there is no political problem in the world that does not have a solution.

US wanted to make an example of eyerack plain an simple. its like in a tribe of macaqe monkeys, the aplha male sometime will hump another potentially challanging male. its not about sex or procreation. its about setting up a world order. sadams regime was respected ammong the ummah as someone who challenged the alpha male. so with tacit support from other monkeys (ksa, egypt, turkey) iraqi regime was humped. while rummy`s force was planty strong for that, it was not sufficinet for taking care of the aftermath and turning water and electricity on. the humping was somewhat effective..libya gave up nukes pretty quickly.

Good commentary by Larry Johnson

Behaving Like A Superpower in Iraq

By Larry Johnson

One critical dilemma we confront in Iraq is the burden of our status as the Superpower. All people in the region--Sunnis, Shia, Kurds, and Persians--assume that we have a secret plan that we are pursuing unilaterally. The majority of these folks accept that the sectarian violence unleashed in Iraq is a consequence of U.S. incompetence. They assume that the rising sectarian violence is something we want because we are a Superpower. By virtue of our status as a Superpower it is inconceivable that we would allow such violence unless it suited our ``hidden`` purposes.

The fact that Baghdad still suffers from chronic shortages of electricity, polluted water, broken sewers, and incompetent police is viewed by many in the region as prima facie evidence that we are deliberately and purposefully dismantling every vestige of what was the most secular Arab state in the Middle East. How could it be otherwise? We are a Superpower and a superpower, like any super hero, can do anything it wants.

The picture gets more complicated when viewed thru the sectarian lens of the various groups.

The Iraqi Sunnis by and large believe we are working in concert with the Shia to destroy the Sunni people. The notion that the Shia are the majority of the population is irrelevant. As the Sunni know, the Shia are incapable of governing or organizing without the support and direction of the Superpower.

The Shia keep waiting for the other shoe to drop because they know, in their heart of hearts, that we do not want them to control Iraq. They know we have designated their Iranian benefactors as part of the Axis of Evil and they read and hear news reports that the United States, perhaps with Israel acting as proxy, is going to attack Iran. Remember, we are the Superpower. Nothing happens, good or bad, without us pulling the strings behind the scenes.

The bottomline for us is that our use of military force is not going to win us the hearts and minds of the various Iraqi sects. Our current tactics are aggravating longstanding grudges and vendettas and creating new enemies in the process.

The neocons, and their ilk, continue to rattle sabers and beat their chest like an impotent gorilla. But their threats are empty. They are not pressing their sons and daughters to enlist in their ``glorious 21st century`` crusade. They want to stay safe at home in the United States and encourage the sons and daughters of other folks to make this ultimate sacrifice.
The choices we make in the coming months will help determine whether or not we are worthy of the moniker, ``Superpower``. We cannot quell the sectarian civil war overnight. But, we must try to show that we can improve the delivery of public services to the Iraqi people on a non-sectarian basis. If we can do that we can help erase the impression that our hidden plan is to humiliate and occupy the Arab people. Otherwise we will continue to be caught in the middle of a civil war that we are unable stop. That`s not super.

#53 by ranjit

“US has done its level best to institute a democracy including the creation of a constitution, interim government and then a final government based on universal suffrage”

This is all non-sense; the minute the US armies leave, the whole thing would come down like the house of cards that the US built in Vietnam in 1974. You cannot establish democracy by placing the armies in the heart of a nation. It has never happened in the history. It is all a joke. Now please don’t come back with Germany and Japan non sense. Germany was a democracy before the US got there and in Japan, it was done after the Japanese had surrendered and acquiesced with the US occupation after the US dropped two nukes on Japanese civilians. The Iraqis are still fighting and the war is still on. The US is almost defeated in Iraq and whatever it did in Iraq resulted in bloodshed and not democracy.

“Iraqis should have whole-heartedly pursued the opportunity to create a real democracy.”

Why? Why should they take orders from anyone? It is their choice. If they don’t want democracy no one can or should force it on them.


“They have missed the opportunity of a lifetime to replace Saddam with a democratic, prosperous Iraq”

You really have some ridiculous notions. Iraqis did not remove Saddam. The US army removed him and the US appointed a US civil servant to run Iraq. Did the US give power to Iraqi people after it removed Saddam? Did the US leave after it had removed Saddam and after it found no WMDs in Iraq?

You just don’t know what you are talking about.

There was no ethnic or sectarian violence before the US occupied Iraq. Why Should the US not take the blame for failing to provide the security after placing its army in the country? That is simply crazy to assume that the Iraqi are now responsible for every thing when it was the US army that anointed itself for providing security and governance to the country.

The whole thing is mute now. The issue is the US needs to get out of Iraq. Faster would be better...

The warmongers repubs have completely lost their heads over the war in Iraq.

The idiot William J. Stuntz writing in the weekly standard is actually asking for more troops in Iraq, McCain the new con man, too is proposing more troops, Kristol of the weekly standard is calling for the “double down” ( a blackjack term). The question is where the troops to send to Iraq are or does the lame duck president already badmouthed by his intellectual think tank neocons like Pearl and Furm and others, have the cojones to double down? Doubling down takes balls and Bush’s balls have been cut off by the US public and now they are on full Public display on Penn ave.

Like Friedman sometime ago said, send just enough troops to lose.

Just like you don`t throw good money after bad, you don`t reinforce defeat. Where the US is losing and where US has a shot is dependent on actually reacting to events, as they are, not where the doofuses wanted them to be. That sending more troops is even a point of argument post 11/7 shows just how far the neo-fantasists dragged the debate, and the US hard and soft power, down the proverbial toilet.

Re:HP#50

[...Are you really this simple minded?....]

No, I am not. I agree with you that the US was completely wrong in initiating this military blunder. It should have left things just the way it was.

Nevertheless, in the past few years, US has done its level best to institute a democracy including the creation of a constitution, interim government and then a final government based on universal suffrage. Also it is more than eager to quit Iraq if the situation becomes stable.

The Iraqis had every right to fight against occupation. However, once the departure of US forces was a given, Iraqis should have whole-heartedly pursued the opportunity to create a real democracy. Their rejection of that option, in favor of savage sectrian bloodshed is the ultimate failure of the Iraqi people. They have missed the opportunity of a lifetime to replace Saddam with a democratic, prosperous Iraq. Now the only option is that US will leave and Iraq will descend into further chaos, civil war, perhaps have a bloody partition, large-scale sectrian massacares like in the Balkans, become a failed state with terrorist groups dominating the landscape etc. This mindless descent was absolutely avoidable if better sense had prevailed.

Re: # 50
HP you are so true and myopic that you cannot see further than your paunch will let you.
Okay that is what they went in for - to get saddam by his balls and they used any old excuse. BUt then they tried to repent for their sins. You ave to give this to the west.

That is the west is willing to learn and change tac is something you idiots in the cesspit bondooks of pakistan and ME should learn. A classic example is palestine. And idiots like you and your ilk sit on high talking of realpolitic when the real-politic is different in the world around us. TYpical head in sand attitude thinking the whole world is full of stupid people and you are the only guys with intelligence.

BTW for the record I am not a khassi joker like you. Thank you for your interaction.

On `Politics of the Mid-Term Elections by Mohammad Gill` board I had posted that no matter what the election results are, the US will now have to change its failed policy in Iraq.
The disaster in Iraq is so gigantic that the future historians would probably call it the beginning of the end of the American hegemony over the world affairs.

As I have said in my post #18, there should be major investigations as to find out how the US was led to this fiasco by some incompetent politicians, Generals, and the political analysts.

The failure in Iraq is more significant than Vietnam. In the end, Vietnam was still a regional matter and the US fought a nation that was supported by two nuclear powers with a capacity to sustain a long-term regional war. However, in Iraq, the US was bloodied by the ragtag armies of street urchins and untrained guerilla fighters who perhaps had no outside support to fight for three and half years. They finally broken the will of the of mightiest government in world to the extend that now the US president is clutching on straws to figure out how to get the US out of this mess.

This administration knew that there was not much time left. Knew that time was a factor to success. Then they waited until after an election, while Iraqi, Americans, and Coalition were dying, to make a change they knew they had to make.

That stinks of a (morally) high crime to me!

There is no end to my admiration for the American public and the common person. As soon as they figured out they have been conned by the some slick politicians/analysts sitting behind a short attention span President, they acted and voted to change the policy.

We need to have investigations and very public investigations to figure out how this great nation was sullied by some incompetent warmongers.

#33 by ranjit

Sorry ranjit but your post is ridiculous and childish for me to respond but I will take this opportunity to educate you a bit.

“How many times have we heard that the US cozys up to dictators in the middle-east?”

Always… There has never been any democratic government in the ME with a possible exception of Israel and now perhaps Lebanon in the last fifty years the US has been active in the ME.

“What the US did not estimate was how backward and primitive Iraq really was as a society.”
Are you really this simple minded?

The US has been dealing with Iraq for over fifty years. The US signed a defense treaty with Iraq in 1955-56 known as the Baghdad pact. Later on, this treaty expanded and was called CENTO. Do you know any thing abt the CIA facts book that is published every year updating info abt pretty much every country in the world and you think that the US did now know how Iraq society was. Compared with Iraq, before the 90s, the Indian society would come out as primitive, decadent, and really poor( which it still is).

Please spare me this mumbo-jumbo from the faux channel and get the facts before you comment on my posts.

#40 by iron_mask
“Incompetence upto a point. But would also consider the point, that the west tried to do a Eastern Europe, and japan Germany before that, on Iraq.”

I am somewhat surprised why Khasis cannot get education and read up stuff before they start commenting here. The US went in Iraq to find WMD and remove Saddam. Did the US go to the countries you mentioned to look for WMD or to remove their leaders? In fact, in all the above cases, the US was responding to an already existing military conflict. This was not the case in Iraq, which the US actually attacked based on lies. Then they just kept lying to cover up for their initial lies and here we have nincompoops with a barely two hour memory to quote some completely irrelevant events to support their stupidity.

Why are you Khasis so stupid?

Re: # 47 nauman72, let add to Hamidm2`s post.
If I were an Indian I would be proud of my country being open - internally and externally. Being able to study and analyse its good things and bad things and come up with solutions which help (example the muslim reservation issue, Kargil fiasco, development issues). Trating issues as human development issues rather than religious issues and sweep them under the carpet. If I were an Indian I would be proud of the fact from ship-to-shit days of PL480 India is now able to feed itsself in the matter of a few years - by being open getting technology and making good use of it. If I were an Indian I would be proud of the fact that India is today producing something which the world wants and is willing to pay the price for it.

You might snigger and say prostitution of the mind and denigrate the people as code coolies. But that belittles you, since thre is something called dignity and Indians are able to hold atleast keep their heads on their shoulders without the faux bravadachiio of my fellow people.

It is always easy to suggest to someone, ``I presume you are from India`` and let loose your diatribes, when the uncomfortable truth is shown to you, and try to reflect someother image. But does no take away anything from the cess-pit world (thanks to Iron_mask for this) you and we all exist in. All it says is my cess-pit is better and more deeper than yours!
Hope you get my drift friend.

Re: # 47

nauman,

....... i hate to point this out, but we pakis need to wake up and smell the chai .......... the market capitalization of the karachi stock exchange is about 47 billion dollars; the mukesh ambani group which consists of reliance industries and a few other groups has a market cap of about $45 billion ..........mukesh ambani`s net worth is almost $15B............ wipro has a market cap of about $20B ............ do the math yourself (that is, if you can)

........... as much as you might want to ignore it, the horrible hindoos are on the march while the paki fools have their heads stuck up their mullah-ravaged keesters ..............

Reply to #42 by queen_cut&paste on November 13, 2006 8:38am PT
lets face it. The whole of the Islamic World is full of G_phattoos. Full of hot air and really doesnot amount to much. Even the so called ``more civlised`` islamic nations like Pakistan are a bunch of civilisational no-hopers. They have had a chance and they pissed into the winds. Educationally backward. Economically backward. Civilisationally backward.

Queen I am not sure where are you from but I guess you are from India. In that case how is India, Sri Lanka or the rest of South Asia better than Pakistan or the Muslim world? Our exchange rate to the dollar is the same. Pakistan gets its sophisticated technology from China and the West, India gets it from Russia and the West. IMO the difference is not between Muslim world and the West, its between East and the West and North and the South.

Re: # 44

............. i think daisy cutters work better with this breed .......

Muslim clerics fighting polio in India

By BISWAJEET BANERJEE, Associated Press Writer Sun Nov 12, 5:47 PM ET

LUCKNOW, India - Farzaan Siddaqui beat up the last health workers who visited his home to vaccinate his children for polio. Like many Muslims in India, he thought the program was an infidel plot to make his community infertile.
ADVERTISEMENT

Local health workers tried again Sunday, this time led through Siddaqui`s Muslim neighborhood by a local cleric, one of scores of community leaders volunteering for an anti-polio campaign in India`s most populous state, Uttar Pradesh.

The campaign aims to vaccinate some 50 million children across the impoverished state, which has seen 438 polio cases this year, 25 of them over the past week. A smaller number of cases have also emerged in some other states, raising fears of a widespread resurgence of a disease once nearly wiped out in the country.

Sunday`s campaign focused on Uttar Pradesh`s Muslim neighborhoods, where many residents have routinely stayed away from polio immunization programs.

As the health care workers approached Siddaqui`s house in Lucknow, one of them whispered, ``This is a negative locality for us.
Polio vaccine is a big no for them.``

Siddaqui assaulted health workers in August as they tried to persuade him to immunize his 3-year-old son and 1-year-old daughter.

But this time, Wajhat Valdi — a cleric who would normally spend the day preaching at a local mosque — walked in while the health workers stayed outdoors.

It did not take him long to win over Siddaqui, who came out smiling some 15 minutes later. A vial of polio vaccine was handed to Valdi for Siddaqui`s children.

Within moments, others in the neighborhood joined in.

``I am so happy that they have listened to me,`` Valdi said. ``It was the will of Allah that I should come here.``

Polio infects children younger than 5, spreading through contaminated water and attacking the nervous system. The disease can cause paralysis and deformation or be fatal.

Three years ago, India almost wiped out the disease after an intense nationwide vaccination campaign, but a combination of factors — including illiteracy and superstitious beliefs — kept many children from receiving immunizations.

Nearly three-quarters of new polio cases in Uttar Pradesh were in Muslim families, said A. K. Mishra, the top bureaucrat in the state`s health department. Most Muslims in the state are poor and illiterate.

In the past, banners and posters were put up in villages warning Muslims against allowing health workers into their homes. Propaganda spread that polio vaccines were a form of sterilization and a Western ploy to reduce the Muslim birth rate.

On Sunday, clerics and community leaders appeared on local television channels, urging Muslim families to vaccinate their children.

``Polio drops are safe and do not affect the health of your children,`` said Khalid Rashid, also a cleric, in a television appeal made in Urdu.

Re: # 43 like this

How does the rest of humanity deal with these people ?





`Taleban law` passed in Pakistan

Pakistan`s North West Frontier Province (NWFP) has passed a bill setting up a Taleban-style department under a cleric to enforce Islamic morality.
It gives the new department the power to use the police and media for the promotion of Islamic values.

lets face it. The whole of the Islamic World is full of G_phattoos. Full of hot air and really doesnot amount to much. Even the so called ``more civlised`` islamic nations like Pakistan are a bunch of civilisational no-hopers. They have had a chance and they pissed into the winds. Educationally backward. Economically backward. Civilisationally backward. Inept. Incapable of producing anything worthwhile the world needs (okay Dubai seems to be fast becoming a notable exception), and yet crying out loud about neo-colonialism and blaming the world for their own internal ills. Shear laziness of the mind I say.

This article is an excellent case in point. There is nothing in there which makes me think, okay here is something which is workable. Its another jobsworthies pourings.

I am looking forward to an article or a series of articles, which looks at the troubles in the eye, and doesnot blame the west, colonialism, and neo-colonialism for the troubles. Once you start doing that you will find solutionsinternally for the problems. Till then the west will march ahead and all you will here from on ahead is sayonara.

To the author:

I agree that Muslims have some genuine greivances but many others also have genuine greivances against Muslims as well. This ``Bechara Musalman`` sob story won`t serve any constructive purpose. Have you analysed how Muslims have hurt others? As the Hindi saying goes, ``taali kewal ek haath se nahin bajti`` (you can`t clap with one hand).

You talk about the Pope`s comments against Islam. The Pope is without a doubt a bigoted jerk who has made derogatory references to Hinduism and Buddhism as well. However, while the entire Muslim world was riled up about the Pope`s remarks, I have not heard anything about the textbooks taught in Pakistani primary schools that teach kay se kaafir and show a Hindu Pandit or zay se zaalim and show a Sikh. Or that Hindus pray in dark, narrow places. Or textbooks in Saudi Arabia and many other Arab nations that teach Jews as pigs. You were all worked up when a Danish newspaper cartoon published Mohammed cartoons. How come you were all silent when a Muslim painter, MoFo Hussian, painted nude paintings of Indian goddesses? When a group of Hindus destroyed Babri Masjid at a disputed site it led to riots killing thousands. How come the entire Muslim world was silent when the Muslim Taliban blew up centuries old Bamiyan statues despite an offer by Japanese and others to buy them? Contrast this with the attitude of the Buddhists who did not hurt a single Muslim in retaliation.

A couple of years ago France banned the wearing of Hijab, turban or other religious objects in school. Something I disagree with but besides the point. However, there was protests over it and there was a Muslim demonstration outside a French consulate in Canada. One of the Pakistani chowkies had written an article where he stated that he went up to one of the protestors and asked if they planned to hold a similar protest outside the Saudi embassy since it does not allow non-Muslims to wear their religious objects. The guy said no and refused to answer when asked why not?

So the bottom line is that if the Muslims want peace and friendship then they will have to make an attempt to meet half-way.

Re: # 18 for once you make sense HP. Incompetence upto a point. But would also consider the point, that the west tried to do a Eastern Europe, and japan Germany before that, on Iraq. When you say ``The failure started when the war was diverted from Afghanistan to Iraq on lies that people slowly caught on to.``, you are falling into the same trap, where you are attributing your sense of rationale (which is western) to the Iraqis in particular and the Islamic world in general.

In the long term the west is wining - since eventually it, Iraq will be left in pieces or in a state where pieces is what it will become.

#33 by ranjit on November 13, 2006 1:00am PT

This whole concept of peace, democracy and human rights is nothing but a stick to beat the non-conforming non-white nations with. To quote the famous (or infamous) Nixon saying about a dictator, ``I know the guy is an SOB but he is our SOB``. This White Man`s burden is another way of continuing the colonial legacy though in a more sophisticated manner. Until a quarter century ago, every fourth US state officially treated Blacks as second-class citizens. Until 50-60 years ago, UK and many other European colonised a large section of the global population and hence treated them as inferior and second-class citizens. It makes me puke that these nations are trying to ``establish freedom and democracy`` in the developing world. Europeans talking about freedom and democracy is like a castrated rapist extolling the virtues of celibacy.

If Iraq did not have the second-largest oil reserves in the world, no US administration would have give a hoot about it. For that matter they would not have give a damn when Kuwait got invaded if Kuwait did not have oil as well. For the $200-300 billion or whatever they have spent on this war, if they were truly interested in spreading democracy and improving the lives of people, they could have tried it in Sub-Saharan Africa. It was more do-able and would have been beneficial for both regions especially since America has a large Black population. Except for the small fact that Africa does not have oil that can be looted easily.

If the United States was truly interested in democracy in the region they should have started with Saudi Arabia. Its treatment of women, non-whites, and non-Muslims is despicable to say the least. US treats Saudis as friends and allies. So they should have put pressure on the Saudis to reform and have a functioning democracy. Then with Kuwait, UAE, Bahrain, etc. That would have shown the world especially the Middle East that the US was truly interested in a democratic Middle East. Even if a Hamas type unfriendly regime wins a national election then so be it. Regime changes are being talked about only in nations that are not compliant like Syria and Iran. Iran for whatever the drawbacks has a much better democratic structure than Saudi Arabia or Kuwait.

Iraq was one of the few secular nations in the region. One of the few that allowed women to vote, drive, take up any jobs. Saddam may have been a tyrant but probably considering the violent nature of that region since times immemorial maybe that was a necessity. Anyway, far more people are being killed each day than what Saddam was charged with. Especially by the ``democratic peace loving`` American and British troops. Saddam was one guy who kept the Islamic fundamentalists in check and Iraqis themselves abhorred fundamentalism and terrorism. Today, if the region has become a hotbed of jehadis then look to Washington for the reason.

Ranjitbhai, this democracy and human rights talk is propaganda for gullible white masses. Your skin is brown like mine and you should no better.

#35 and #36. While I do not agree with the content of the writer`s article and will come to that later, let`s avoid crticisizing the author for his grammer. I am sure that English is not his first language and might be very eloquent in his mother tongue. It is a legacy of the British colonialism that allowed people to be made fun of if they spoke poor English. How many British can speak good Hindi or Urdu or any other non-English language. I have come across hundreds of Americans who are sucessful and speak bad English despite it being their mother tongue. Guys get over this slavish colonial mentality.

PS - While I disagree with the contents as mentioned, I understood what he is trying to say.

So its official now, esp coming from a Brig.Gen. Albeit retd. The claim for both victimhood, and superiority present with most so-called islamic actions in the west, and those emanating from mother countries.

Thank you for an enlightening article, Makni sahib (if I could be so presumptuous with familiarity). It, the article, does indicate an certain unwillingness to look beyond the common and popular notions of victimhood. These notions of victimhood, if articulated by the vast unwashed population of the country, would have been excused. However, coming, from an intellectual, albeit one immersed in military discipline and all thatit carries, leaves no excuses. Just as there are no excuses for the pakistani brothers in the UK to bomb their country folk.

URSTRULY in #6 has very succintly put forward a case, which has some rationale behind it. Ofcourse this response has been ignored, since I presume that it carries within it a nugget of the uncomfortable pin-prick called the truth. It makes sense.

However, what makes more sense is that in most of the muslim world there is a total lack of accountability. To cover up this accountability, and to hide thier own inadequecies as rulers, you have this great charade of ``victimhood`` being played out. At the same time to make people even more confused and dazed you mesmirise them with peans of superiority, and mind numbing oness drilled into them from the time they are small. Thereby, getting rid of any vestiges of independent thought and independent mind.

This play of schizophrenia has worked till now, in that the west could be blackmailed into handing over hard earned tax dollars to the directors of the play. nfortunately the script is well worn out and the day of reckoning is arond the corner. The west is putting up its fences. It would leave the festering countries to stew in their own cess-pit of their making by stopping exchanges of the kind the world has witnessed so far. It is either that or a total remappping of the islamic world will take, with or without the help of the muslims. This remapping is going to be experimented with in Iraq. The iraqis have helped the west in this endeavour and it will happen.

despite the decades of exchanges with the west, the muslim world has not learnt the fundemental tenets of a free society, hence the clutching at strawmen by quoting Chomsky (your article is an excellent case in point). I am sure if you asked Professor Chomsky to analyse your little world he would be no less censorious. This would be extremely uncomfortable to your ilk and prove to be his last testament as a freeman. He would either have a fatwa on his head ala Rushdie and be forced into hiding, or if visiting yor countries he would be in prison and thrown into the cess-pit.

This article provides nothing new, and is remakrably full of cliches. I would have hoped that for a man of your experience and judgement more insight into the worlds troubles would have been provided. Unless ofcourse you are wanting to use this as an exercise in fishing for ideas. If then, I am sure you already have been given a fore taste of the reaction to your insulting our collective intelligence.

Re: # 35

I wonder if they grant Ph.D degrees in Jihadi universities! In any case the curriculum should insist that candidates take at least refresher course in writing.

Kamath

........ this is perhaps one of the most poorly written articles i have read on this forum - the author needs to go back to grade school and take a remedial class in elementary english ......... final grade : C-

``Tough decision making is need of the hour, the decisions that would stand the grind of truth, justice and transparency.``

But the question still remains, Who will make this decision- America, Israel or the so called Veto Power

Re:HP#18

[...The failure started when the war was diverted from Afghanistan to Iraq on lies that people slowly caught on to. Those lies and not the military failure in both Afghanistan and Iraq is responsible for legitimizing the terrorist and terrorism as political force in the world now. Had the efforts were made to eliminate the terrorist instead of expanding the war for some dubious reasons, the menace of Jihadis and the terrorism would have been long gone.....]

HP, the Iraq war is undoubtedly a disaster, a complete failure in execution. Having said that we should also realize that the US was making a gamble, an experiment in trying to forcibly push the middle-east towards modernity. How many times have we heard that the US cozys up to dictators in the middle-east? Well, here was one instance where the US tried to shift the dynamics of the middle-east by attempting to establish a constitutional democracy. The hope was that it would succeed, just like democracies had succeeded in Eastern Europe after communism and even start off a domino affect. Ultimately the middle-east could morph into a modern, democratic society where terrorism would be an anomaly.

What the US did not estimate was how backward and primitive Iraq really was as a society. It had material wealth from oil, but underneath the people were savages who were brutally kept under control by Saddam. Once that control was lifted, they fell upon each other like beasts killing in the name of sectrianism. Every day Iraqis are killing 50-60 other Iraqis including women and children, in the name of religious sects. It defies comprehension that they would destroy each other like this, when they can easily build a modern democracry. So now the US has basically realized that the middle-east is full of similar savages and the best that can be achieved is stability via some dictator. No wonder the US is now reaching out to Syria and Iran to help fix Iraq.

Re: # 20
PewR....
It is your privilege to judge. I can comment when I am not party to the subject. I hope you permit me maintaining grace and neutrality.
In any case I believe in interaction with dignity. I am embarassed to see one member calling another, you `idiot`. Read preceding comments. I am sure it does not serve the purpose of bringing people together. Views may differ but not at the cost of losing adecorum.
Anyway one should pray for their reformation and parting with prejudices through knowledge. Incidently a `prejudiced` person is hard to reform because, `prejudice is like a pupil of an eye, more light is shown to it ,more it shrinks.
Bye.....

Re: # 24
Till 1999 I was but never for a moment thereafter about a man you call Mush.....

Re: # 29

ShoreSahib

``Elah, the Muslim God is rumored to have said in The Recitation, most Wise......

``If you kill one human being, its as if you have killed the whole humanity``.

It is a mere statement made by Israeli God who have given his `chosen` people the licence to kill human beings indiscriminately. It may be wise as you say but is not factual: hence of no consequence.

``Generally Muslims assume to have the margin to vent their anger through ‘jihad’ because they perceive themselves as the only direct victims whose strategic assets and the territories are under occupation.``

The Prophet Muhammad is believed to have said,

``Anger eats through a believer as Fire through dry wood``.

Elah, the Muslim God is rumored to have said in The Recitation, most Wise......

``If you kill one human being, its as if you have killed the whole humanity``.

So, What Jihad?

Perhaps it would behoove the civilized Muslims to conduct some internal jihad and conquer the Shaitaans that rule their psyche and phalluses.......

Dear Author,

What I dont get about Muslims is this,

Why do you point fingers at the West?

Please take a Look at yourself?

Apney Gareybaan mein Jhankiye Hazoor!

Lets take the example of Pakistan.......

We, the Pure people of Pakistan are so damn civilized that it curdles my blood.......

The atrocities against women, children, the poor, minorities and the weak are so great that it disgusts me to no end.....

The rise of fundamentalist version of Islam....during the years of Zia the Great...

With the rise of Fundamentalism came Pretentiousness and never before scaled heights of hypocrisy that are the hallmarks of the Pure of Pakiland........

Yes, we like our multiple television channels,

yes, We like to gawk at Indian actresses,

Yes, we like to abuse those with less power be they our children, women, or the poor...

yes, we are so Muslim.....So Pure.......So Civilized......

What clash of civilization......

Civilization, My foot!

Hello, We dont even have Public Bathrooms to serve the Majority of the Pure.......

Re: # 9

[A friend says, Muslims and the Westerners are suffering and elites (?) are enjoying. I agree but not with the language. That is the reason my dialogue is directed agianst the manipulators, their Govts and those exacting tyranny, and never against the masses whether it is East or West. ]

Sir Ji,

Can you please eleborate; what do you mean when you say that ``I agree but not with the language``....

The problems of the world should not be blamed on any one single cause. However, if one HAD to do it, the culprit which comes closest is that lot called the Pakistani khakis.

Yes, the khakis of Pakistan who are good at everything in the world – including the type of sermonizing being witnessed here by this khaki specimen creature.

The Pakistani khakis who are absolutely the best at every trade in the world and who have every skill in the world – except perhaps the skill of actually showing up in the battlefield and actually fighting!

The khaki institution which finds it easier and which has always found it far easier to mount the compound walls of TV stations instead!

Such super patriots!!! Who says that THEY are myopic?!

That’s right! The patriotic entity which most closely resembles an organized crime syndicate of which this author is perhaps one trivial cog – now all used up and discarded!

Without the Pakistani khakis,

(1) there would have been no usurpation of civilian power in that country
(2) there would have been no “strategic depth”
(3) there would have been no Taliban
(4) there would have been no funding of terrorist insurgencies in the subcontinent
(5) there would have been no 9/11 and the changed world which followed
(6) without 9/11, there would have been no US attack on Afghanistan
(7) without 9/11, there would have been no US attack on Iraq
(8) without 9/11, there would have been no…you name it!

It is truly mind boggling how much damage one rogue army of “my religion is superior to others’ and my breed is superior to the rest of the Pakistani breeds!” mindset can do to the whole world.

A clash of civilizations indeed! It’s more akin to a crash of civilian institutions by a rogue army – and nobody in their right mind would call it a clash of civilizations.

Because there is nothing civilized about that rogue institution!

because if anything his -- ``Warlike aims and activities (have) corrupt(ed) the mentality of (the) man. Intelligent, objective human thinking is suspected and persecuted as unpatriotic.`` -- by the General of democratic civilian politicians.....

-- Albert Einstein

hope you are not as passionate for Musharraf as you are for everything else in the column......

``Qeematee hotay gaye dair-o haram fikr-o khayal
zindagi insaaN ki ek sastee ki sastee ruh gayee``

a very well written passionate column against taking human lives destroying human achievements for contrived man made linguistically damned ideologies -- supernatural or otherwise -- well done MA Khan!

there is obviously the issue of oil. more important than that is the zionist influence on u.s. government. war in iraq should be viewed from these two perspectives. people forget that after 9/11 uncle sam did what obl demanded which is that u.s. get the hell out of saudi arabia. however since u.s. wanted to have influence over events in the m.e. for reasons outlined before, it decided to set up shop in iraq. given the end result of this course of action, i dont think muslims should be too unhappy. u.s. did muslims a favour by removing saddam hussain who was a buffoon and a source of instability in the islamic world. in addition iran has emerged the strongest power in the region which is good because iran is better positioned to fight for muslim interests than arab countries.

in the long term muslims need to get their act together domestically to be able to shape global events. pleading for justice aint gonna work because i. world does not work like that and ii. beggars dont make a very inspiring sight which causes governments to lose support at home. to fix things domestically, muslims need to fix their economy because muslims cannot live by jehad alone.

Re: # 9

Field Marshall sahib,

Sir Hum chotay loge hain, aap kay PHD kaa sun ker hi hum ghabraaa jaatay hain.

Its good that you`re highlighting oppresssion. Speaking of oppression, what are you`re views on the institution thats been responsible for raping and pillaging the country since its inception, the same one that was responsible for one of the largest genocides known to man since World War 2 in 1971 (of their fellow citizens might I add)? This institution also happens to be the largest corporate body in the country but still feels its in the national interest to cordon off taxpayers money to build golf courses and defence colonies.

Thank you and god bless

Re: # 13 Makni
Brig. Gen. Sahib, I have a question for you: How do you rate your intellectual capability in comparison to other Pakistan military generals? Do you rate them (i) below your capability, (ii) more or less the same, or (iii) above your capability?
Thank you in advance for your answer.

Re: # 18

Hizra Paaki,

>>>Is the western leadership really incompetent or there were deliberate attempts to prolong the war to milk it for political domination? <<<

Are u brain dead u idiot? What is this?

The arms are bought from China and/or Russia by ur bros but not from ther US or UK.

warning: Long post.

“The clash of civilizations has well unfolded but the Western world constantly repudiates the claim.”

It may have started as the clash of civilization but currently it is nothing more than a clash of incompetence. In the end that incompetence would decide where the world is headed. The incompetence of the Muslim Jihadis comes from their social backgrounds that barely allow any understanding of the political and military warfare. They react to incitements and often in the most brazen ways. Due to the fickle nature of Jihadi leadership, they are prone to manipulation from different groups. We see the signs of that manipulation all around us but the question is what happened to the western civilization?

The most advanced states of the world who boast the most sophisticated systems of governance, education, warfare and social changes fell prey to some utterly incompetent political operators within, so quickly and with so much blindness that now the western civilization is facing defeats in areas which should really have been cakewalks.

The western governments have faced ragtag groups like the alqaeeda before and they were taken out without much fanfare, the west has faced countries like Iraq before and they were subdued comprehensively with ease. Even a country like Afghanistan was easily neutralized in the old days and now look at what is happening in Afghanistan.
The question that western scholars now need to ask is what led to this sudden decline and how a group of incompetent politicians, generals and analysts was able to manipulate the system with so much ease.

The war against terror would go down in the history as the gigantic failure of strategy, ideals and political maneuvering not to mention the military failures everywhere.
The worst part is the administration kept saying that it is fighting over there so they don’t show up here but in reality their incompetence led to these cartoonish characters from the medieval periods showing up in every living room every day via the media.

Just one look at these obnoxious characters would tell any one that they were not worthy of the effort so huge and humongous. These characters should have been taken out in swift actions and should never have been allowed to dominate the world scene for as long as they did. Why the most sophisticated armies of the world were so incompetent that they failed to adequately plan the demise of these obnoxious Jihadis who still depend on the west to secure their arms supplies.

Has any one realized that the Jihadis wont even have small arms to fight, if the west had actively attempted to cut off the supplies. The west mounted a successful campaign to dry up their financial resources. We did not see any attempt by the West to go for the jugular and cut off the arms supply too.

Is the western leadership really incompetent or there were deliberate attempts to prolong the war to milk it for political domination?

The failure started when the war was diverted from Afghanistan to Iraq on lies that people slowly caught on to. Those lies and not the military failure in both Afghanistan and Iraq is responsible for legitimizing the terrorist and terrorism as political force in the world now. Had the efforts were made to eliminate the terrorist instead of expanding the war for some dubious reasons, the menace of Jihadis and the terrorism would have been long gone.

Realism and Pragmatism often appear to compliment each other but for the smart and intelligent political an