The Calculus of Miscalculated Human Misery

ڪ پاڪستان لاءِ به اطمينان بخش نظر نٿي اچي. ڇاڪاڻ ته گذريل ڪجهه عرصي دران ڪلچرل قبيلائي علائقن مان نڪري اقتدار ۽ طاقت جي مرڪز اسلام آباد تائين پهتل انتهاپسندن في الحال ته منظر نامو بدلائي ڇڏيو آهي. ميلوڊي ۽ آبپاره جي وچ تي قائم ڳاڙهي مسجد المعروف لال مسجد جي برقعا پوش ڏنڊا بردار مذهبي خواتين پاران روڊن تي نڪري اچي پوليس اهلڪارن کي يرغمال بڻائڻ ۽ ٽن عورتن تي بدڪرداريءَ جي تهمت هڻي کين زوريءَ گهر مان کنڀي اچي مدرسي ۾ واڙي ڇڏڻ، حڪومتي عملداريءَ کي چئلينج ڪرڻ نه سڏجي ته ان کي ڪهڙو نالو ڏجي؟

#85 by taikonaut on November 19, 2006 4:19pm PT


Pakistan`s resources and geostrategic location is not comparable to Afghanistan.


Why not? You`re both getting your citizens whacked by CIA hellfires...

Re: # 86 drags this discussion into hindustani mud by saying ``Why not? You`re both getting your citizens whacked by CIA hellfires...``.

Hindustan takes the cake when it comes to whacking the citizens. Government (be it provincial or federal) continues to ``whack`` its citizens. The examples off course are too numerous to list in the chowk.

This however is not meant to gloat over killing unlike our dear poster. Nay! This is just a reminder for our enlightened writers from Hindustan about their ``glass house``.

Great that the author has come to the reality. Our world is a dynamic place and Utopian peace is possible only in small chunks of time. Even Allah Mian had to deal with shaitan so who are we the mere mortals to face the new shaitans like bin laden.

In any dynamic environment there are opportunities to become prosperous, or the possibility to lose your shirt.

Smart men (and women) will be prosperous in these times. Just see the examples of Japan, China, and South Korea. While the idiots in the Middle East, or countries like North Korea, and Venezuela will end up losing their shirts.

So for Pakistanis it is the decision time. Be like North Koreans or Palestinians and lose your territory or your prosperity or both.

Or we can be like South Koreans and become prosperous. The choice is ours.

Re: # 83

``So for Pakistanis it is the decision time. Be like North Koreans or Palestinians and lose your territory or your prosperity or both.``(taikonaut)

this commendable thought can be brought a little nearer home than faraway North Korea and Venezuela -- the countries who are niether going to lose their shirt nor their territory.

Nearer home -- the sentiment may sound like this and still be pertinent -- ``So for Pakistanis it is the decision time. Be like Talibans of Afghanistan and lose your territory or your prosperity or both.`` -- or be like Hindustan where the super power will give you all the nuclear bombs you need or -- you don`t need.

Re: # 84 Nearer home examples of ``stans`` i.e. Afghanistan or Hindustan sound good but they are inaccurate. Pakistan`s resources and geostrategic location is not comparable to Afghanistan. Afghanistan is a tiny landlocked country that was historically dirt poor. Hindustani example is a bit far fetched too. The ``deal`` that Hindustanis got is more for civilian purposes. As far as bombs are concerned Pakistan and Hindustan both have parity on it.

There are specific reasons why we can`t be like Hindustanis, otherwise Pakistanis would not have separated to begin with. South Korea is a much better role model for Pakistan as both have stronger free market approach compared to Hindustan. Sure we have IT business growing in Hindustan but there is a natural cap on IT. Our target growth rates need much more open economies and Hindustani communists won`t allow that to happen.

Anyway thanks for appreciating my point. North Korea vs. South Korea example is good to show two people who are exactly alike (language, religion, history etc.). Yet the North is a basket case, while South is in the top 10 economies of the world.

Thanks.

This sentence quoted by BBC from Musharraf intrigues me:

``Mr Hussain -- said President Pervez Musharraf, who commuted the death sentence on Thursday to life imprisonment, -- ``had shown himself to be an enlightened man who has rectified this miscarriage of justice``.(BBC)

Mr. Hussain had shown himself to be an `enlightened` man who has rectified (shouldn`t be -- has borne with patience and fortitude?) this miscarriage of justice.

Perhaps like syntax challenged Mr. Bush -- Mr. Musharraf was actually talking about himself that -- Mr. Musharraf had shown himself to be an enlightened man who has rectified this miscarriage of justice......:)

This time the General can do all the self-praising self-patting he wants to, to his heart`s content -- and it will be ok -- with us.

``Death row Briton leaves Pakistan.

A British man who spent 18 years in a Pakistani jail has been freed and has flown out of the country, a day after his death sentence was lifted.

Mirza Tahir Hussain, 36, of Leeds, West Yorkshire, was convicted in 1989 of murdering a taxi driver, but always said the killing was in self-defence.

Mr Hussain -- said President Pervez Musharraf, who commuted the death sentence on Thursday to life imprisonment, -- ``had shown himself to be an enlightened man who has rectified this miscarriage of justice``.

Before Hussain was freed, there were pleas for clemency from the Prince of Wales, Prime Minister Tony Blair, European politicians and human rights groups.” -- and most importantly from.........Chowk

``ISLAMABAD: President Pervez Musharraf commuted on Thursday the death sentence of British national Mirza Tahir Hussain, officials said, paving the way for his likely release from jail after 18 years awaiting the hangman’s noose.

Mirza Tahir Hussain, 36, will instead be given a life sentence for the 1988 murder of a taxi driver, meaning the 36-year-old could be eligible to go free from jail because of the time he has already served in prison.``

yet another feather in `Kulah-e Musharraf`.....the MAN is on the roll.

Good News.

In Pakistan RAPE of a woman is `NOW` (baRee der kee mehrebaaN atay atay) a Penal offence -- like most of the civilized world -- not any more a Religious Porn to be watched by 4 voyeur Mullahs.

That God`s refuse Fazulu-rahman did not take kindly to his being deprived of his Islamic right to watch the ``Sex Act`` -- of a Pakistani woman being brutally raped -- with three of his MMA colleagues -- Qazi Ahmed -- Maulana Samiulhaque -- and that shame of a Baloch, Liaquet Baloch -- Fazulu walked out in a huff from the National Assembly during the passage of the Bill.

one only hopes Fazulu hangs himself by the nearest neem tree out of dire disappointment and depression!

my compliments to that (andhoN maiN Kaana raja) Musharraf -- for introducing the long overdue Bill and Benazir for supporting it wholeheartedly.

and for that bill-opposing idiot -- the mullawannabe -- the shariati (ghair) Sharif ......the less said the better.

At least for all who live in America the beautiful, the land of the free and the home of the brave, the bastion of human happiness, there is even more good news. There is no CONSTITUTIONAL provision nor ANY STATUTE of federal law that LEGALLY REQUIRES any wage earner or salaried employee to file his/her federal income tax return. No kidding. (More below, just in a minute.)

This may not appear as a relevent point in this particular discussion, but if one examines the deeper roots of these ``clash of civilizations`` type issues, then the connections are discernable, but with some diligence. It becomes possible to see the present day ``religious`` and ``national`` conflicts as mere symptoms of a greater struggle between individual liberty and centralized control. This ``centralized control`` could be of any flavor. Ideologies, particularly religions, attempt to promote a mind-set that is subservient to some (real or imagined) authority and discourage the exercise of individual liberty. Centralized control of individual conduct is thus sought through indoctrination of the particular ideology. But religious fundamantalists or militants are a spent cartridge. They don`t have any real power in this world, except the power of cause minor disruptions here or there. The more dangerous form of centralized control that threatens individual liberty around the world, including inside America, is the immense force and invisible global control of money power. Actually, the threat is most grave inside America simply because Americans have more to loose. The poor Somalis or Rawandans, by comparison, have already a lot less to loose. The American government is merely the instrument.


Click here to see a video documentary that starts by telling about the money stealing frauds that the US establishment has perpetuated. The first issue addressed in that income tax filing is not required under the law. ``Rubbish`` is what I said when I first heard it. The IRS is a real monster that no one can deny. But the documentary shows (besides much else) interviews of former IRS agents who confirm this. There is also an interview of a former jurors in a tax case. The jury aquitted the defendent because of the absence of any statutory requirement to file a 1040... There were IRS regulations, but the defendent successfully argued, based on supreme court rulings that he had not broken the law.

But this is not all.

This video documentary (the same video as above) also details the role of a private banking cartel that most believe is only a government agency and is subject to the normal checks and balances by the peoples representatives.

Unfortunately, its a long video. The size of a full length feature film. But I think it will be well worth the time. It has good entertainment and information value. Turn your speaker volume up.

God bless America.

...SR

Let this be the Humble Pie that these Paki Islamists require on their face regarding Iraq-


1. Start hundreds of civilian multi parties without religious agendas.
2. Conduct elections where parties cannot compete on religious and non-secular agendas.
3. Do not give any credence to militant groups. Outright ban them as out laws.
4. Promulgate a secular constitution with no reference to Islamic laws.
5. Arrest all the mullahs and send them to gitmos without worrying about anything else.

the moment Islamists find themselves debarred from sharing the power they would run and hide in their rat holes and blow themselves up to heavens............

#68 by HP on November 14, 2006 12:13pm PT


Here is my plan that is under discussion on another forum right now.


Goatbrain...why don`t you offer up a plan to get the CIA to stop whacking pakis on paki soil..and your army from pathetically firing on mountains to take the blame...

jo bechtay thay daw-e dil voh dukaan apni buRhaa gaye haiN

this presidency is a dying presidency -- it is going to stink the place before its rotting carcass is removed from the premises and buried deep after 2008 -- and the place disinfected and sterilized once again....with myriads of about to begin court cases......the Bush war criminal cabal is going to be under `country arrest` for years to come...unable to travel abroad for fear of arrest at foreign airports for torture and crimes against humanity........

``am willing to pay whatever it takes to win this war - the alternatives are too unpredictable and scary .......... but it must be complete and total victory - none of this `phased redeployment` crap .........``(hamidm)

let`s nuke them worthless Iraqis -- how dare they fight the Americans baRa sahibs -- fused-spined stupid bastards -- why can`t they bend and make a normal U turn like Musharraff did

let`s evapora them.......

.....especially after the American voters just gave their `thumping` mandate to that -- bushier than bush -- crazy macaca macane -- for a `complete and total victory`......

An exchange abt my post #68 on another forum.

HP

Who do you see serving up this humble pie? What makes you think the president will eat it? I guess the Rumsfeld firing might be one indication that he`s prepared to change direction in some way, but I cannot believe that there will be any substantive change.

The US has no relations with Iran and Syria. Iran and Syria have absolutely no incentive to do anything but wait and watch as the US armed forces are depleted. The UN just got a fresh snub this week with the lame duck Bolton appointment.

Woodward reported that Bush was staying the course no matter what. He may well agree to claim to be undertaking yet another approach--sending Condi around the world again, say. But there is no evidence I can see that would lead me to believe that there will substantial withdrawals any time soon.

In the spirit of hope, I can make a constructive suggestion to add to your list: make sure a substantial fraction of oil revenues goes directly to citizens. This will lessen the Sunnis fear of impoverishment and will create a disincentive for interfering with production.

Posted by: Jay Ackroyd at November 14, 2006 | Permalink to this comment

My response

Jay,

As I see it, we have prepared the humble pie already and now it is up to our new reps to serve it. I doubt that the elections were an exercise in futility. However, we will surely see a lot of resistance from the administration but the public opinion at this time is not on their side. Sending the armies out on a war is relatively easy but the task of bringing them back without a victory can get nasty. Since there is no hope for a victory in Iraq, the public opinion would continue to bear down on the admin and the Congress to bring the troops home.

Your pessimism is well founded but the events on the ground and the forces of change are stronger. I doubt that there is any sane American left out there who would relish the status quo in Iraq.

Once the administration accepts the notion of change, it is everyone’s job to keep them moving in the right direction. This admin will continue to slide downwards on a slippery slope and that will give plenty of opportunities to the right-minded people to press home the advantage.

I know the admin has a huge mental block about talking with Iran and Syria and that is why I think either the UN or a focus group consisting of the countries I mentioned, would perhaps help break the ice. I am sure you are aware of some rendition flights that took some terrorists to Syria and back. So, the US does have a channel open to talk to Syria.

There is no solution in Iraq that will take less than a year. So initially, a timetable for one year would probably get the ball rolling.

“Iran and Syria have absolutely no incentive to do anything but wait and watch as the US armed forces are depleted.”

I don’t subscribe to that. The situation in Iraq also creates problems for both countries. In a civil war like the one we have in Iraq, the warring groups seek new hideouts and the fights begin to spillover in the neighboring countries. The ongoing civil war in Iraq may create refugee situation for both countries too. Lastly, no country cherishes living next to a war zone.

The US withdrawal from Iraq would establish Iran as a regional power and I think Iran would prefer that the US armies leave the area.

Posted by: HP at November 14, 2006 | Permalink to this comment