The Calculus of Miscalculated Human Misery

warning: Long post.

“The clash of civilizations has well unfolded but the Western world constantly repudiates the claim.”

It may have started as the clash of civilization but currently it is nothing more than a clash of incompetence. In the end that incompetence would decide where the world is headed. The incompetence of the Muslim Jihadis comes from their social backgrounds that barely allow any understanding of the political and military warfare. They react to incitements and often in the most brazen ways. Due to the fickle nature of Jihadi leadership, they are prone to manipulation from different groups. We see the signs of that manipulation all around us but the question is what happened to the western civilization?

The most advanced states of the world who boast the most sophisticated systems of governance, education, warfare and social changes fell prey to some utterly incompetent political operators within, so quickly and with so much blindness that now the western civilization is facing defeats in areas which should really have been cakewalks.

The western governments have faced ragtag groups like the alqaeeda before and they were taken out without much fanfare, the west has faced countries like Iraq before and they were subdued comprehensively with ease. Even a country like Afghanistan was easily neutralized in the old days and now look at what is happening in Afghanistan.
The question that western scholars now need to ask is what led to this sudden decline and how a group of incompetent politicians, generals and analysts was able to manipulate the system with so much ease.

The war against terror would go down in the history as the gigantic failure of strategy, ideals and political maneuvering not to mention the military failures everywhere.
The worst part is the administration kept saying that it is fighting over there so they don’t show up here but in reality their incompetence led to these cartoonish characters from the medieval periods showing up in every living room every day via the media.

Just one look at these obnoxious characters would tell any one that they were not worthy of the effort so huge and humongous. These characters should have been taken out in swift actions and should never have been allowed to dominate the world scene for as long as they did. Why the most sophisticated armies of the world were so incompetent that they failed to adequately plan the demise of these obnoxious Jihadis who still depend on the west to secure their arms supplies.

Has any one realized that the Jihadis wont even have small arms to fight, if the west had actively attempted to cut off the supplies. The west mounted a successful campaign to dry up their financial resources. We did not see any attempt by the West to go for the jugular and cut off the arms supply too.

Is the western leadership really incompetent or there were deliberate attempts to prolong the war to milk it for political domination?

The failure started when the war was diverted from Afghanistan to Iraq on lies that people slowly caught on to. Those lies and not the military failure in both Afghanistan and Iraq is responsible for legitimizing the terrorist and terrorism as political force in the world now. Had the efforts were made to eliminate the terrorist instead of expanding the war for some dubious reasons, the menace of Jihadis and the terrorism would have been long gone.

Realism and Pragmatism often appear to compliment each other but for the smart and intelligent political analysts they are poles apart and often, like the opposite attract each other but that is where the closeness ends.

The West lost the opportunity to implement a pragmatic approach, now it is looking for a realist approach. The problem with the realist approach is that it leaves bulk of the terrorists in place and provides them legitimacy in the world affair and influence in the areas which they call their bases.

So the clash of civilization is really about to start but it is going to be won only when pragmatism takes over and the war is fought with ideas and the economic might instead of the lies and the military might.

Re: # 18 for once you make sense HP. Incompetence upto a point. But would also consider the point, that the west tried to do a Eastern Europe, and japan Germany before that, on Iraq. When you say ``The failure started when the war was diverted from Afghanistan to Iraq on lies that people slowly caught on to.``, you are falling into the same trap, where you are attributing your sense of rationale (which is western) to the Iraqis in particular and the Islamic world in general.

In the long term the west is wining - since eventually it, Iraq will be left in pieces or in a state where pieces is what it will become.

Re: # 18

Hizra Paaki,

>>>Is the western leadership really incompetent or there were deliberate attempts to prolong the war to milk it for political domination? <<<

Are u brain dead u idiot? What is this?

The arms are bought from China and/or Russia by ur bros but not from ther US or UK.

Muslims backlash is obviously understandable



Yes....muslims rioting and muslims in the west demanding the beheading of those who insult islam is understandable..most people didn`t expect anything different from muslims anyway..


to allow him an opportunity to recant a confusion that would have lent an added beauty and grace to an act worthy of Islam and Holy Prophet


Yes...the problem isn`t that brit-pakis were demanding the beheading of people who insult islam...the problem was that they didn`t give the perpetrators enough time to apologize...



free of such malice like Noam Chomsky, are spontaneously dumped as traitors


Yes...Chomsky was locked up by the state and sent to gitmo...


by roaring electronic media of Jewish brand that is happily flashing killings;


Yes...the obligatory jews own the media paki thing....



chowk.com: providing a platform for jihadi apologists since 1996....

``Public fever in US, Britain and some other coalition countries is hitting their leader’s popularity. Their corrupt and the fallacious international relations have generated so much moral stress within their own parties that a large number of the legislators are now inclined to revolt. ``

pipe dreams of the wannabe jehadi master dreaming of starting a global ``revolt`` by sending a few trained jehadis at their POK camps to the so called regions of discontent.

Miyan........... first go back to your barracks and eat your rations like a honest military man than act like that Pakistani dictator`s boot licker who knows everything about world politics just because he has trained a few jahilyas in his camps to blow themselves up.

Re: # 15
ballukhan
My article was published in September and what I had written then(the portion also quoted by you), by now you should have graded me 21st Century Nostradamus. See what i wrote and what has happened by now:
Rumsfeld gone!
Bush Republican lost
TonyBlair criticised by his own Chief and by British standards it is no less than a coup
Tony being asked to quit by his own party men.
As regards the dictators my views are the same as yours. Please read again what I wrote about `authoritarian` countr!ies. In my country I could write this much.

thank you general-sab for this incisive analysis. welcome to chowk. i think like in stock-market, in the market of ideas timing is important. for example, there was a lot of support for palestinian causes e.g. in india, and there was a time and place. but once the time goes on, people lose interest. same is true with kasmir..if goals are not achieved by a violent rebellioin in short enough time, it later leads to much civilian violence and nefarious elements start co-opting freedom struggles. in short, one must make a roti when the tava is hot..its hard to make to make roti on a molten tava. so, when the next islamic struggle happens, my suggestion is to make a concerted effort behind a big-fullback to get the ball across the goal line..inshallah.

Notice this article does not even discuss the darfur genocide or the horrendous sunni-shia violence in Iraq. It only and exclusively discusses situations where muslims have issues with non-muslims.

For me that is the key insight. It exposes the bizarre kind of reasoning behind the so-called scholarly analysis. Behind phrases such as ``truth, justice and transparency`` is actually an obsession with the perfidy of the west and to a lesser extend the cunning of the hindus. All the rest of the wordy nonsense is a screen to invoke universal phrases in support of sectarian goals.

Re: # 10
So you spoke. The wild guess you made is your fancy flight. I donot subscribe to this. And also please see I have not claimed my article to be `scholarly` one and it could only discuss what I deemed appropriate. If it were you perhaps you could start with Darfur and so on. You are welcome to keep at the `bizzare` tag.
I admire your frankness.

Re: # 13 Makni
Brig. Gen. Sahib, I have a question for you: How do you rate your intellectual capability in comparison to other Pakistan military generals? Do you rate them (i) below your capability, (ii) more or less the same, or (iii) above your capability?
Thank you in advance for your answer.

Re: # 20
PewR....
It is your privilege to judge. I can comment when I am not party to the subject. I hope you permit me maintaining grace and neutrality.
In any case I believe in interaction with dignity. I am embarassed to see one member calling another, you `idiot`. Read preceding comments. I am sure it does not serve the purpose of bringing people together. Views may differ but not at the cost of losing adecorum.
Anyway one should pray for their reformation and parting with prejudices through knowledge. Incidently a `prejudiced` person is hard to reform because, `prejudice is like a pupil of an eye, more light is shown to it ,more it shrinks.
Bye.....

Summing up reply to all above:

I thank all taking happy shots. My background led some to conclude that I must have been `yes-man`. Discipline obviously had been my major srtrength but it never hindered me to pursue truth disregard to any other consideration. Nowhere I have refered to my country but my views apply to all and sundery. I hope my comment in reference to the `US best friends` is read once again. I have not glorified the oppressors any where and my argument is against them.
Sardar jee has the solution to wall all Muslim countries. A novel idea but practicable if the repercussions are not kept in mind. Visualise a situation when your life and property is at the mercy of others..... I am sure you will turn out to be the biggest revenge seeking soul and rightly too. Why blame Muslims?
Cheguevra, one hopes you match his qualities, has not liked my credentials. It is good to mock someone once a while that you have done, an abvious and very convenient exercise. What I have been or am doing now at rather senior age, is appreciated by well wishers. I hope you know that genuine PhD completion has minimum time line of three years and there is no bar on maximum. That should put you wise unless you have the tag of some being purchased on-line from fake institutions. Seeking knowledge is a virtu and not a trash activity. About my military career, I am proud to serve in Pakistan Army that never forces anyone to part with virtues. Individals failings can not be dumped on an institution.
A-grade in `jihad`. thanks for the speculation. It is analytical article that gives preamble in relevant parts, followed by my opinion. I hope you grant me this much freedom. It is beside you may not have liked it, maintaing different views. That is also , I recognise, your prerogative.
A friend says, Muslims and the Westerners are suffering and elites (?) are enjoying. I agree but not with the language. That is the reason my dialogue is directed agianst the manipulators, their Govts and those exacting tyranny, and never against the masses whether it is East or West.
Thank you all once again.

Re: # 9

[A friend says, Muslims and the Westerners are suffering and elites (?) are enjoying. I agree but not with the language. That is the reason my dialogue is directed agianst the manipulators, their Govts and those exacting tyranny, and never against the masses whether it is East or West. ]

Sir Ji,

Can you please eleborate; what do you mean when you say that ``I agree but not with the language``....

Re: # 9

Field Marshall sahib,

Sir Hum chotay loge hain, aap kay PHD kaa sun ker hi hum ghabraaa jaatay hain.

Its good that you`re highlighting oppresssion. Speaking of oppression, what are you`re views on the institution thats been responsible for raping and pillaging the country since its inception, the same one that was responsible for one of the largest genocides known to man since World War 2 in 1971 (of their fellow citizens might I add)? This institution also happens to be the largest corporate body in the country but still feels its in the national interest to cordon off taxpayers money to build golf courses and defence colonies.

Thank you and god bless

Dear Aslam sahib,

Nice try but you have ended up producing the faulty rhetoric all the way.

[The clash of civilizations has well unfolded but the Western world constantly repudiates the claim....``.]

It seems that you also think within the confine of the mental bounderies, which have been drawn in your mind by your training. I am not surprised, because thirty two years of saluting and yelling ``yes sir`` will definately result in this. Now Let me give you an idea; in this so called clash of civilization, which is the party which is suffering, and which is the party that is reaping benefit.

I will not surprised, if your answer is that muslims are suffering, as this is what one segment want muslims to think. In the same way, their is a segment in the west which want west to think that their population is suffering because their values are at risk. In the end both are suffering; muslims as everyone knows, and also western general population which is now giving away their liberties, social freedom and social benefits to save exactly the same from the hands of terrorists.

So both parties that should matter are suffering. Then who is gaining? The elite bastards, who are aloof of general population are gaining. They are gaining in oil money, arms sales in the west, and bribes, harams, emperor like status in the east (look at saudi elite. Egyption and Syrian elite who has even made presidentship hereditory. Look at your former coleagues in Pakistan; frankly speaking PMA Kakul should be renamed Pakistan Management Authority). Mullahs are also enjoying unparallel power, never enjoyed before by them. You know in Saudia, shariat only applies to general population, all the saudi princes, who are in thousands are immune from it. The famous Moududi sent his childern to study in US, and according to his son never allowed them to read his books; same books that are read by all and sundry in muslim world. He himself went repeatedly to US for medical treatment, and even died there. Nowadays, take the example of Moulana Fazl-ur-Rehman; He is known as Moulana Diesel in Pakistan for his corruption in allocating diesel quotas in the past.

It is not clash of civilization. It is the same story of elite making fools of general population and they are using relegion and way of life to convince them of this, and making themselves rich and powerful. Rlegion is used as a tool in semi illetrate societies (read all muslim countries), and tool of threat to values and way of life in the west as this one is succesful there.

Wake up man, wake up and think out of the box.

I fail to see any merit in this article; no vision,; no thesis; and no solution. Basically, it is nothing more than a summary of current affairs which we all know of, quite well, thank you very much.

What I see as a bigger threat to Muslims, is not really the West, but a corrupt Westernized calss that has occupied almost every Muslim country. Brigadier Sahib you have been a part of this oppressing class and may be still are working with a some kind of a think tank still devising and concocting plans on how to oppress us and how to lead us astray from the righteous way of Allah and His Prophet (pbuh). I tell you one thing that man has always been able to defeat the forces of tyrranny no matter how long the wait. It is nature of man. Every revolution in the world started when forces of tyrranny and injustice crossed the limits of humanity - be it French revolution, or Russian, or Iranian revolution against evil forces - the core reason that man rises up is that he wants to establish the rule of justice and law.

The Muslim sedition against the colonial world order of past half a milleneum is for this very reason. The logical outcome of that sedition is that either world will wholly engulfed in the forces of tyrrany, evil, and injustice - victims being non-Muslims as well - or human beings would be able to establish a world where every nation would have an equity and there will be rule of law and justice. It is not a promise of utopia, it is only a promise of peace. Meek may still not be able to inherit the earth but they will be able to enjoy the equity in it.