Meeting the Pakistani-Swiss

so, you left the US because you saw it turning into a fascist state; UK is a ``miserable island``; and your name for Canada is the ``frozen north``. and the thought of returning to india seems to have never crossed your mind.

seems to me you are either too good for this planet - or else you carry your misery along with your passport whereever you go. :-)

Re: # 122 DrDr {``...how did these miserable souls end up giving us what we know 2 b the western civ? ...``}

I have not said anything bad about the British people or the British systems. My gripe with this place is principally on account of the weather. My secondary complaint is about the small size of things like parking spaces, streets, houses etc. I`m also not terribly happy paying British prices for cheap Chinese made goods, but I can live with that. It was actually you who used the words ``miserable island``... I only said I was miserable...(on account of the weather, of course)...

So I wouldn`t call them ``miserable souls``... The British are a very hardy and stoic people and perhaps its this miserable weather that has been instrumental in building their national character. If it was 70 degrees and sunshine all year round what could possibly have motivated the Elizabethian englishmen to cross the seven seas and build an empire? Nothing. Because in the summer this is the most beautiful and charming place there can be. Before moving to UK I`d probably visited this place at least fifty or sixty times over the previous twenty years. Five or six of those visits were also in the winter, but when you visit a place for a week or two you don`t realise what living their, day in and day out, means in terms of having to endure the darkness, fog, wind and drissel...

I don`t think it is fair to the French, German, Dutch and Italian people that you give sole credit for developing ``western civilization`` to the Brits. Industrial revolution may have begun a bit early here but the others weren`t too far behind. What you call ``western civilization`` I`d prefer to better describe as ``modern industrialised society``... it is a more accurate description.

...SR

Re: # 124 aslam {``...some time back you wrote on chowk that you came to live in UK, because you didn`t agree with US foreign policy, now you are saying you came because of your mother. ...``}

Perhaps my post was not very explicit. Leaving the USSA was the basic decision. Not just because of its imperialistic foreign policies, that in itself wasn`t all of it. Paying taxes to support injustice was a moral choice I did not have to continue to do. Perhaps if I was stuck in a profession where departing the US soil would have meant financial suicide, I might not have had the moral courage to take the step. There was also a personal and selfish aspect. I saw the US slowly turning into a fascist police state and an immoral, materialistic, over commercialised and violent place where I didn`t want my children to grow up. Gun culture with school violence was another one of my paranoia as a parent. Whether my perception was misguided or not is another matter, but that is what I felt and so I acted according to my conviction.

But then the question was, where do we move to? The most reasonable, easy, least traumatic choice was Canada. But we didn`t move to Canada as logic would have dictated. Since we were going to take a fresh start, family considerations trumped logistic considerations and we moved to the UK, where everything is half the size at twice the price. It was not a rational choice, but an emotional one. My mother was the factor in the equation that tilted the balance in the favor of UK as opposed to The Frozen North (my nick-name for Canada). That is what I was saying.

Now that my mother is gone, there is no moral imperative for us to remain in the UK, because the weather is so incompatible with my well being that I am living a life of hardship. My little daughter and I both have respiratory problems that get worse in the winter here. I admit, that one can hardly blame the British for their bad weather and I do not feel that this place is going to the dogs as fast as is the US in political and social terms. (Though economic future wise it is worse off than the US.) Now I am looking to see what choices we have. I am also faced with an awkward situation at home because my wife wasn`t exactly too enthusiastic about moving to England. She has been an angel about it and has never once thrown it in my face, but the hidden smile behind her lips says it all, every time I complain about the UK. She seems content here, but I am not. So I end up looking like a fool. ...

...SR

DrDr SahibSahib: sorry if it sounds unduly harsh...i think it is appropriate though. :-)

i.e., in light of SRs new-found snobbishness towards UK, as developed through living in the US. i spent a few days holiday in england a couple of times and found it to be a wonderful country - great history, friendly good-natured people, nice parks, great public transport. and all this man has to say is talk about how this ``miserable island``.

Re: # 117
i suppose it`s because of popularity of indian food, anyway what`s the big deal i know of pakistani in manchester with a chinese restuarant and a pakistani with a italian as well.

#114 by SR on October 30, 2006 2:51pm PT
sr
some time back you wrote on chowk that you came to live in UK, because you didn`t agree with US foreign policy, now you are saying you came because of your mother.

i know on this chowk there are all sorts of avatars around, but there should be some coherency and credibility in one`s views or do you change them with the british weather.

#115 tahmed, my quotable sir, that was harsh!

#114 SR, thanks 4 sharing alho I wasnt asking 4 ur personal reasons.
Im asking a bigger question - how did these miserable souls end up giving us what we know 2 b the western civ?

#120 no problem sir. so i guess we are in agreement on this question.

Re: # 119
sorry I had was not aware of the general thrust/development of the srguments here.....
my oversight!

dot: I think you misunderstood. The story I related had nothing to do with money or birth or education. These could have been all members of the Royal Qureish Khandaan to which so many ``muslims`` belong, and/or owners of medium or big businesses and/or PhDs in nuclear physics.

The story had to do with living in peace and mutual respect with others. And the incident I related demonstrated that not only are these people unable to live in peace with the british population in UK (as demonstrated with their bus-blowing last year, and with their stupid political bs on behalf of ``arab grievances``) but also unable to live in peace with one another (as demonstrated in that incident).

What you refer to is boorish behavior. What I referred to was being able to live in peace and mutual respect. So, while no doubt the two often go together, they are in essence different things.

As for boorish behavior - I consider that to show a lack of consideration for others. You seem to think it is OK if the man is economically ``successful``. I beg to differ.

As for class - some of the lowest class people I have met go around in expensive cars, own millions of dollars worth of property. And some of the highest class people I have met drive inexpensive cars and live on salaries. Class has nothing to do with money or birth or education.

Naqsh, TAhmed32, SR etal

are you all not just a bit too obssessed with class and education here? The equation you are using is

class=money+education+birth

Upto a point this might be true. However, I am increasingly seeing that this equation is being violated here in the U.K. I recently came across a NHS Cheif Executive - a total Paindoo accent, gold rimmed glasses a tond, bald head (but greasy !) etc and not very polished (by our desi westernised standards). When you see him you think my god this man will start scratching his balls and tummy. Totally rustic and also undereducated compared to the rest of us. But he is able to hold onto his job done well in life (and could be in the honors list (for whatever that is worth). The more I came to know him I realised he had a first class mind , and had a great class in his thinking and attitude to life.

There are more like this these days. Okay there will always be a few who will fortify the stereotypes.

OTOH I have seen serious City Types (the ones Naqsh???? mentions) who have no class are uncooth in their behaviour and have more racism in their blood stream than their colleagues. You can see this everyday in our working lives.

Ultimately it is the thought behind the actions which counts.

The lady and the man screaming is essentially the same, unfortunately they have not lost the habit of shouting at the top of their voices to be heard (most desi women have to shout to be heard in most families), and desi men are the most inarticulate bunch of bozos you will ever meet (hey stereotypes but I have that liberty ;-) ).

Re: # 81
Dear Aslam

Why did the Sialkoti Guy opened a Indian restaurant in Ireland and not a ``Pakistani one”. Please let me know.

Iqbal Singh (chandigarh)

#111 Aslam: thanks for the confirmation regarding the ``Paindoo Syndrome`` (or PS for short). And indeed, they can be from anywhere, and perhaps ``paindoos`` is a more appropriate term to use than mirpuria.

And the problem is - because of these losers, western countries have become less open to immigrants from Pakistan (and other third world countries in general) than would have been the case if they had demonstrated some self-respect and regard for the country that gave them the opportunity to escape their miserable conditions in Pakistan.

#114 Thank your stars that you are not in the stinking cesspool your parents grew up in in India. ``miserable island`` ka bacha!! ha! ha!

Re: # 113 DrDr {``...that miserable island ... what gives? ...``}

What gives is that the principle moral justification I had to be in the UK was that my aging mother lived here. Having the grand children only a couple of hours` drive away made it possible for her to see them on a regular basis. This was not possible while we were across the Atlantic though we made at leat two or three trips a year. But, sadly, she has passed away as of last spring and now we have nothing compelling (except inertia) keeping us on this dark, dreary, drissley, misty island. Had it not been for family considerations (brother, sister and first cousins live in London) we`d most likely have moved to The Frozen North when we decided to leave the United Soviet States of America.

...SR