Wahabism in Centers of Learning

So now, supposing I wish to dominate the world, how are you people going to win over my heart and mind?

DM, head of the senior Taliban, did you figure that out? :)

#173 by dost-mittar

[My agenda, to the extent that I have an agenda, is that the embedded intolerance of religions, and not just of Islam, must be confronted and openly discussed and debated in discussion forums...]


Ah yes. An open debate. A very enlightened position.

By the way, what is your position on both Islamic men and women asking their non-Muslim partners to convert?

The message of Islam is to find inner peace within ourselves and then to spread peace to all of humanity.

http://www.bmf.org/iswp/preface.html

#175 by nasah

[Yes I would say that they belong to the same realm of mythology as yours.... ]

So would you say that ALL of the Koran is Mythology, and not the word of Al-lah?

[....now talking about the Hindu tolerance -- the Indian Muslims are as tolerant as YOU are -- ]

That is your OPINION. You avoided answering my question (accidentally?). So I`ll repeat it for you here:

I`d like to do an opinion poll someday amongst the neighbourly Muslims of Varanasi - what their opinion is about the right of other religions to build temples, synagogues, churches etc. in Mecca and Medina - smack next to their mosques etc.

What do you think their reaction would be?

And what`s YOUR opinion on this?



[but if you don`t like the Muslims you are always welcome to move to the Hindu Kingdom of Nepal.....:)]

The Hindu Kingdom of Nepal - just like the Islamic state of Pakiland? Eh?

But here`s what spoils your 50-50 argument:

Pakistan was created as an Islamic state by the majority will of the Muslims (disregarding the minorities` will).

Nepal WAS a Hindu state as long as the kings ruled, and the public had no say. The moment the Hindu majority public got their say, they OVERWHELMINGLY optede for a secular state.

See the difference?


Your turn.

``Hanuman`s antics belong to Hindu MYTHOLOGY. Would you say that the aerial acrobatics of the Gibreel dude and other assorted winged creatures as mentioned in the koran actually belong in the realm of mythology....``(Krishna abcd)

Yes I would say that they belong to the same realm of mythology as yours....

....now talking about the Hindu tolerance -- the Indian Muslims are as tolerant as YOU are -- but if you don`t like the Muslims you are always welcome to move to the Hindu Kingdom of Nepal.....:)

``This is why I always welcome the so-called fundamentalists and clear-cut rejectionits over the liberals...``(dost-mitter)

meray bhai dost-mitter ji -- tu yeh baat hai -- no wonder I don`t get to hear from you as oftern as I used to -- you are too busy with the fundamentalists and the rejectionists.......:)

SR#167:

Please do not confuse thinking people with GW Bush. He is another one of those who is probably acting on what he perceives to be in his embedded belief system and is causing a whole lot of havoc in the world.

No, I do not advocate the wholesale punishment even if it worked and, as you most probably know, the system devised by the British for the Frontier agency and used by their Pakistani successors was indeed a system of collective punishment for any criminal belonging to a clan. And brutal punishments do not have to be administered on a large scale, how many people do you see in Saudi Arabis with amputated hands?

My agenda, to the extent that I have an agenda, is that the embedded intolerance of religions, and not just of Islam, must be confronted and openly discussed and debated in discussion forums, though not from bully pulpits as that would lead to bloodshed. This is why I always welcome the so-called fundamentalists and clear-cut rejectionits over the liberals; they are both clear in their statements and willing to defend their respective stands, and I am here thinking only of discussion foraas. The liberals however, seem to take the approach that we can challenge the interpretations but not the foundations of those interpretation. They are unwilling to apply the same test of rationality/sanity that they use in everyday life in every sphere. Thus we are unwilling to take anyone seriously when he talks about the sighting of Elvis Priesley (or even Subhash Bose in India!) but insist that those who talk of the Immaculate Conception of Jesus Christ or half of the American Christians who believe that Jesus will return to earth in their lifetime should not be in the same category as those believers in the Elvis sighting.

Echoboom#168:
No, I do not mind being called a talib; in fact I do consider myself a true talib on chowk.:)

Re: # 173 D-M {``...No, I do not advocate the wholesale punishment even if it worked ... brutal punishments do not have to be administered ... My agenda,... is that the embedded intolerance of religions, and not just of Islam, must be confronted and openly discussed and debated in discussion forums...``}

So basically we are in total agreement. Why then did you prompt me write an explaination? I thought you were advocating the homeopathic approach. ``Fight like with like...`` Criminal atrocity with yet more criminal atrocity on an industrial scale. That seems to be a popular viewpoint around here. God help us all, if the neo-cons of this forum (or the kutter religionists for that matter) ever come into any real power.

...SR

#171 by nasah

[my dear lad Krishna -- ``the winged creature mentioned in the Koran`` -- used the SAME LOCOMOTION -- that the Monkey God Hanuman used -- to carry the mountain from the Himalayas to Sri Lanka for Sita]


nasah my boy,

Hanuman`s antics belong to Hindu MYTHOLOGY. Would you say that the aerial acrobatics of the Gibreel dude and other assorted winged creatures as mentioned in the koran actually belong in the realm of mythology, and not the sacrosanct word of your Al-lah?

Your turn.

[-- now don`t tell me that I have no right to talk about ur monkey God Hanuman -- as long as there is one Hindu in India -- that`s my concern also......:) ]

We hindus are a tolerant lot - way too tolerant. Nobody`s going to chop off your head for saying this or that, unlike in your glorious religion where your man mo did just that to MANY individuals for saying things he did not like.

In fact, I`d like to do an opinion poll someday amongst the neighbourly Muslims of Varanasi - what their opinion is about the right of other religions to build temples, synagogues, churches etc. in Mecca and Medina - smack next to their mosques etc.

Want to guess what their reaction would be?

``Could you provide some info on the winged creatures mentioned in the Koran? What specifically is their means of locomotion? Do they actually have to flap their wings, or do they kind of swoosh around like jets, only with divine propulsion?`` (KRishna _abcd)

my dear lad Krishna -- ``the winged creature mentioned in the Koran`` -- used the SAME LOCOMOTION -- that the Monkey God Hanuman used -- to carry the mountain from the Himalayas to Sri Lanka for Sita -- now don`t tell me that I have no right to talk about ur monkey God Hanuman -- as long as there is one Hindu in India -- that`s my concern also......:)

Maulana Dr. Kalbe Sadiq is one of the most respected and learned muslims of India.

Incidentally, he was also the persons whose visa to US was revoked this year..just as Yusuf Islam was ``deported`` in mid-air.

Now if one is fair-minded and a seeker & prursuer of Justice in the world [and begs everyone to be considered a ``parRhaa likhha despite the fact he can only read/write Blacksheep Urdu & speak/write only toataa-mainaa english] would that person STILL not condemn the Bhang-ifarangi aka as United Satans?

The fact is the United-Satan is hand in glove with all the un-Islamic ``muslims`` like the Shah of Iran, Saddaam, naa-Musharraf, naa-Mubarak Saudis, Morroccan King & now the Libyan dictator.

It is NOT in ther interest of the United Satans to be friendly with those who dislike KANJarR-pan and ``progress-thru-gainfully-utilising-one`s-orifices``. United Satan is alwyas looking for jobbers, workers & followers of ORDERS...like what John Le Carre wrote about the order-taker nature of certain Panjabis & their surrender of everything for ``the-hand-that-feeds-him``..the canine genes that he has in him.

No wonder Q2 and Q32 always seem to drooling , and slurping & burping from every entry & exit point of their bodies.

---

HindustanTimes.com
‘Mullahs’ destroying Islam: Kalbe Sadiq
HT Correspondent
Lucknow, November 5



SENIOR VICE-PRESIDENT of the All India Muslim Personal Law Board (AIMPLB) MAULANA Dr Kalbe Sadiq today blasted the ‘Mullahs’ for destroying Islam. He said their ill-conceived fatwas (edict) had not only painted Islam in black hues but had also stopped its progress. MAULANA Dr Sadiq assailed both Shia and Sunni ulema (clerics) for straying away from Quranic path.

Dr Sadiq said Islam laid stress on ‘pen culture’ but Muslims had resorted to ‘gun culture’. Delivering lecture on ‘Islam versus Muslims’ on Sunday, MAULANA Dr Sadiq said these Mullahs had tarnished the image of Islam in the past and the process was still continuing. He said they had issued ridiculous fatwas, which hampered the progress of the religion.

He said both Sunni and Shia clerics were responsible for present deplorable situation of Muslims. He squarely blamed the ulema for lack of unity in Muslims. Dr Sadiq said these clerics had been fighting among themselves but asking the community to unite. “It is absurd situation”, he said.

Pointing out that Islam was not responsible for the conduct of Muslims, Dr Sadiq said the community had strayed away from intellectual approach and justice. He said Islam did not allow unjust approach against any community.

Dr Sadiq reiterated that birth control was not anti-Islamic, as the religion had laid stress producing good generation and not on degeneration. Dr Sadiq said even though Islam did not permit abortion, it however had not asked the believers to produce child without having resources for his upkeep.

He also attacked Saudi Arabia King Abdullah for his corrupt way of life. He charged chief Mufti of mosque in Medina for resorting to all anti-Islamic activities. Dr Sadiq said history had enough examples that both Shia and Sunni monarch led anti-Islamic life.

He said there had been ulema who even issued fatwas against use of rifles in army or construction of steamship in Turkey. He said Shia ulema had been living lavish life, which was against the tenets of Islam.

Referring to Shia clerics of Lucknow, Dr Sadiq said their participation in luxurious marriages was against Islam. “It is religious crime on their part”, he pontificated and invited the ulema community to debate with him on issues raised by him

SR:
May I register my admiration for some the very sensible posts by you?....As you might have guessed by now most of the stuff written here are ``feelings`` and not necessarily ``thoughts``.

We can never divest feelings from thoughts & the heart always has its reasons & will always conquer the mind . The brain deceives , the heart never abandons.

We all know how beautifully different we are than how we package and present ourselves for whatever reason. An ``objection`` here is not necessarily a ``disagreement``

Like Dost-Mittar, there are many true Talibaans here. Don`y panic Dost, this is a good word.
Talibaan: Seeker-of Talibaan-i-Ilm : Seekers of Knowledge Talibaan-i-Gyaan, Dhiyyaan (Zen) mukti, or whatever.

Seeker, Seek--is SIKH the one who is a disciple ..original root from Sanskrit Sikhsatya...Seeking Truth

So the Sikhs were the very first Talibaans & this word was , in my opinon, used for the very first time as a movement.

#164 by nasah

[Qoran doesn`t need to be re written, reinterpreted, or reinvented -- Qoran is a book for the spiritual solace of the believers -- not for political warfare -- it is futile to search for material meaning in Qoran -- as a Book of God, it is above `meaning` -- because God is above `meaning`. ]

nasah,

This is 100% correct.

It IS futile to look for ``inner meaning`` in statements such as ``Kill kaffirs wherever you find them`` and ``Do not make friends with Kaffirs even if they are your own parents`` and ``The mountains are there to hold the earth down, and prevent earthquakes, and to prop the sky up, so it doesn`t fall on our heads``.

Such deep insights are not to be toyed with or ``interpreted``, but memorized, if one wants to avail themselves of 72 Houris and ``untouched as pearls`` Ghilmans, and other such fun stuff.

Faith is the key.

Could you provide some info on the winged creatures mentioned in the Koran? What specifically is their means of locomotion? Do they actually have to flap their wings, or do they kind of swoosh around like jets, only with divine propulsion?

Thanks..

#153 by discoverer

[haha.... well this is what DISCUSSION means. Beside this article is for Muslims only especially Paki muslims, when will you cow-piss drinkin indian mind your business. ]

As long as there is even ONE Muslim in India, it IS our business. As long as pedophile-following terrorists kill innocent Hindus in India, it IS our business.

If you want us to stop talking about Muslims, take ALL your brethren out of India to your Pakiland, and implement the TNT theory properly.


[I mean why don`t you indians start your own article about ACHOOT, RELIGIOUS RIOT or BRAHMIN and talk about there terrorist involvement. India is a big country you know, every minute someone in india is getting rape or being sacrifice for KALI. ]

Yes, but it is WITHIN us Hindus. We are not going to Pakistan to rape.

You should stick to reading the manual that the pedophile has written for you 5 times a day and not get involved in these discussions.

Cheers.

Qoran doesn`t need to be re written, reinterpreted, or reinvented -- Qoran is a book for the spiritual solace of the believers -- not for political warfare -- it is futile to search for material meaning in Qoran -- as a Book of God, it is above `meaning` -- because God is above `meaning`.

zeemax#154:

``The starting point must be to choose between one of the following possible scenarios:

1) There is no God; and life, nature etc is an unexplained cosmic phenomenon.

2) There is a God but he wound up the clock and left it ticking till it runs out and is rewound.

3) There is a God but it`s the cosmic God for whom human life as we know it and/or its conduct is just a drop in the ocean and has other things to attend to like continued and ongoing Creation elsewhere in the totality of the universe after laying down rules for each. ``

These categories are not exhaustive. For example, I believe that ``nature etc is an unexplained phenomenon`` but have know nothing about whether or not there is a God.

BTW, the way I understand Hinduism, the third statement is quite compatible with it. The Hindu would further say that God has set out the rules (the Karmic philosophy of as you sow, so shall you reap whether in this or the next births) and the rest is up to humans, He or She does not then need to keep a micro account of our everyday life.