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Wahabism in Centers of Learning

Osama Shahid November 2, 2006

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#225 Posted by einsteinwallah on November 8, 2006 1:48:37 am
Higher education like education at other levels was born with congenital defect in India. I would not be surprised if a great education centre will arise from some sort of renaissance movement which does not cower under mainstream or popular alternative systems. You cannot go on doing same thing again and again and hope for a new thing suddenly born out of it.
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#226 Posted by discoverer on November 8, 2006 3:00:18 am
re:mohar11

so explain the pedophilia practiced by the prophet, pubh...:)... or his murder of 700 civilians... or countless other atrocities committed by Old Mo during his camel-p!ss induced insanity...

you should change you nick from ``mohar11`` to ``moron1``, this actually suit your personality.
You are mixing Mahabarat with ISLAM. In mahabarat, more then 700 civilians were slaugthered by you BAGWAN not in ISLAM.

Click Here

Keep in mind that this bloody war was between 2 family not between community.nor religion, nor country. You HINDOO religion encourage family violence, KHANDANI JHAGRAA.
You piss-drinker as I mentioned earlier are blindly targeting ISLAM without common knowledge. We MUSLIMS are ready to talk about our religion every where we go but you piss-drinker[HINDOO] just never learn.

Unlike HINDUSIUM, ISLAM allow other faith to practice example are MOGAL EMPIRE and the kings who ruled INDIA earlier. Mogals for example ruled about 500 year before BRITISH arrived.If ISLAM allow terrorism then 500 year are sufficient to wipe out HINDOOS from the surface of the SUB-CONTINENT. But guess what they didn`t because ISLAM don`t allow innocent killing. this explains mohar11 and krishna_abcd present in this site.

Which how this discussion started on the first place... if you see ``logical explanation`` in bedouin tribalism called islam - then explain it and we are done... :)

Here are the logical explanation in contrast with Hinduism

ISLAM HIDOOS

Believe that GOD can marry and reproduce : False TRUE

[how can a supernatural being reproduce, if so then whats the difference b/w them and us]

Believe in more then 1 god : False TRUE

[Do you really think a super-intelligent being can shre power with other self-created god, that doen`t make HIM super-intelligent, do they]

Allow rascism False True

[Every single day in india, Brahmin slaugther Achoot just because they are from lower caste, a very straight forward racist sign]

Allow urine to drink False(never) True

[How can your religion allow urine drink, when science itself consider urine as a poisonoua by-product.]

Human sacrifice False True

[believe it or not, your religion do allow human sacrifice, KALI maa like to have innocent blood on her tits.]

SATI False True

[Islam alway believe in giving human being a second chance,in the same manner Islam allow a widow to marry again if her husband dies not to burn her alive with him.HIDOOS are not allow to marry again according to their religion]

Prostitution as a entertainnment FALSE True

[Kamasutra is the biggest example that one could give, no other religion allow prostitution then HINDUISM. I think i don`t need to give you guys its link, it well known and all over the net]

there my friends are some basic LOGICAL EXPLANATION with reasons why WE follow ISLAM and not hinduism.

re; Urstruly 216

you are right.... By agreeing with URSTRULY i ask aplogy from all my HINDOO brother/sister who are hurt by my vulgar description of their religion. But a suggestion from my side, discussion is not bad but discussion without any knowledge leds to confusion. ;)

Beside I really want to know why HINDOOS follow their pedophiline religion, what`s so great about HINDUISM that you HINDOOS hate muslims
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#227 Posted by mohar11 on November 8, 2006 7:29:05 am
disco mian

You are babbling a lot, but not saying much...:)... you fail to explain the inhuman and criminal behaviors of the prophet, pubh... looks like you simply do not have any explanations for it, despite your claim to the contrary... Which is what I said in the first place... religions have no explanations, particularly the primitive tribal philosophies like islam... it`s futile to try to explain and justify such stuff...

Your apology is accepted... Late as it may be, wisdom has dawned on you... your vulgarity and utter stupidity stems from the fact that you are completely clueless... just like your religion and prophet, pubh - you have no wisdom, no civilization, no intellectual power... you are a old fool, a pathetic little cyber jihadi... but depsite all that - we accept your apology... :)

++++
[...what`s so great about HINDUISM that you HINDOOS hate muslims...]

Well - these days, everybody hates muslims... it has something to do with the violent tribalism followed by muslims... nothing to do with greatness of hinduism, or buddhism or any other -ism... :)
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#228 Posted by Urstruly on November 8, 2006 7:50:11 am

Re: # 220 PM

I think Christians would be better of saying that they only believe that part of their religion that fits their life style and reject all of the rest. Having said that, I don`t think that you even believe in Gospel. Had you really belived in the Gospel, you would have not rejected Mathew 5:17. Now before I quote this verse, let me remind you that Mathew Chapter 5 is the most quoted chapter of Bible, which constitutes the famous sermon of Jesus (pbuh) where he witnessed the glad tidings for all righteous people. This is the sermon that prophesize the inheritence of earth by the meek, that Christian missionaries are never tired of quoting. Here is the Gospel of Jesus Christ (pbuh) in his own words:

Mathew 5:17

`` Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.``


The next two verses leave no doubt whatsoever, what ``law`` Jesus (pbuh) is referring to; for it is nothing but the law of Moses (pbuh) in Old Testament.

5:18 - For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

5:19 - Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


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#229 Posted by khurram on November 8, 2006 8:33:12 am
PM:

Since you are curious, here is an excellent article on the topic.

http://globalwebpost.com/farooqm/writings/islamic/apostasy_dawah.doc
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#230 Posted by sattar2 on November 8, 2006 8:42:29 am

PM (#221),

Fair questions …

Quran leaves the matter between the individual and Allah Almighty. This position makes full sense to me personally at an intellectual level. Furthermore, it completely squares with Quranic view of “no compulsion in matters of faith”. Here’s are some Quranic references on apostasy:

Apostasy forgiven through repentance: 3:86-91
Apostasy harmless to cause of Islam: 3:144, 5:54
Punishment for apostasy from Allah alone: 2:217, 3:86-89, 4:137, 16:106

I am yet to come across any Quranic reference that supports death for apostasy (or blasphemy or adultery, for that matter).

”No compulsion in matters of faith”

Ullema take a twisted view of the “no compulsion in matters of faith” clause of Quran. Since they cannot deny what is written in Quran, they add to it. They insist that … true, a person should not be forced to accept Islam, since there can be no compulsion in matters of faith. However, once a person has accepted Islam, he cannot leave it. Killing him for leaving Islam does not violate the “no compulsion in matters of faith” clause.

That is, one is free to accept Islam as he wills, but will be killed if he leaves it. Go figure!!!

Relevant hadith

From what I know, death for apostasy is based upon a recorded hadith … where the Prophet (pbuh) allegedly stated something like “whoever changes his religion, kill him”.

My view is that such ahadith are erroneous (either incorrectly cited/recorded, or missing the context, or at least partly fabricated). Accepting such ahadith as valid leads one to conclude that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) himself violated Quran. This in turn casts doubts on his prophethood, his mission, and the content of Quran itself.

Mainstream Islamic schools of thought

I am not sure when “death for apostasy” got integrated into the mainstream Muslim thought. But it seems that most (perhaps all) mainstream schools of this day concur on killing apostates.
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#231 Posted by sattar2 on November 8, 2006 9:04:30 am

Urstruly (#228):

“ … I think Christians would be better of saying that they only believe that part of their religion that fits their life style and reject all of the rest …”

MiaN,

Ironically, this is very similar to your faith in Quran. You follow it when it supports your views, twist it when it does not, and abandon it completely when it negates your agenda. You then revert to passages from bible, alleged hadith, verdict of your ullema etc. … all of which is squarely negated by Quran.

+++++

Khurram (#229):

That was a good read; thanks for the link. It pretty much sums up my take on the issue.
To contrast it, read post #59 from Urstruly here. It is a shocker and an eye-opener … and sheds light on the nefarious views of the ”custodians of faith”.
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#232 Posted by krishna_abcd on November 8, 2006 10:18:04 am

[If this is your internal matter, you shit head then why do you keep spaming this article, even this is our internal problem. This is the difference between [piss-drinker]HINDOOS and us. we are ready to explain every single point because we can but you can`t simply explain why you drink cow-piss. ]

No, numbnuts.

It is NOT your internal problem. The name of the article is ``Wahabism in Centers of Learning``. Because there are so many of these animals in India, unfortunately it is OUR problem as well. UNTIL you Pakis take ALL Muslims out of India to Pakiland, it will continue to be our problem.

Get it, shithead?


[Are you nut, It seems you drank a lot of piss before posting. According to you, we believe our Prophet, you moron. We believe in GOD, we FOLLOW Muhammad`s teaching. There were prophets before him like Jesus, we Follow his teaching as well but we don`t BELIEVE in him. ]

No, you are wrong. You DO believe your prophet. You believe him when he tells you that the koran was transmitted to him by the Al-lah dude. If you did not belive him on that point, you would not belive that the koran came from Al-lah. And therefore there would be no Islam.

I know you are a dumb Paki. Read the above line many times. Get a dictionary. See if you understand what it means, fcukhead.



[HAHA... I knew you were drinking piss. But this time you drank your own piss. NONE of the upper point are true. Simply.. I think this is the teaching of KRISHNA BAGWAN or some other BAGWAN you had whom you detest and finally you brought Muhammad in it. I can Challenge you, shit face to bring me any link which proof this story of yours.... ]

ALL of those are true. I have quoted chapter and verse on all of those a thousand times here on Chowk. None of the pedophile followers had any answers. Go back and read the posts by Ajeya, Ramanujan and my current nick.

IF YOU STILL DOUBT IT, let me know. I`ll quote chapter and verse again. One at a time. Otherwise it may be too much for a shitbrain like yourself.


[This is what happen when you drink piss a lot, YOU HALLUCINATE. and fabricate stories.

I hope this will make you shit properly,

Fuçk you later

bye ]


Don`t worry about me shitting properly. You Muslas eat so much meat - that you guys are the most constipated people in the world. Go buy a suppository.

On second thoughts, don`t worry. Go visit your favorite mullah. That`ll do the job.

:)



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#233 Posted by krishna_abcd on November 8, 2006 10:21:09 am
#224 by PM

[abay teri chaDDi ko kiss ne aag laga rakhee hai, beh? ]

Try and answer the question. Instead of trying to avoid it.



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#234 Posted by PM on November 8, 2006 11:28:19 am
#228:

Urstruly:

Okay, so Christians obviously don`t know shite about their religion. And obviously Christ himself was terribly conflicted, coz, if you REALLY know the New Testament, as opposed to having a googled out idea of it, you`d know how he dealt with laws such as `keeping holy the Sabbath`, for instance. Mian, you need not dabble in esoteric matters about which you know little or nothing, but if you`re really interested in disabusing yourself of your ignorance, please take the time to read this

And which part of ``I am not a Christian`` did you have difficulty with anyway? Please let me know, and I`ll rephrase if necessary.

But in any case, the next time you find some Christian, or Jew, or anyone else who prescribes the death penalty for apostasy, please do let me know. Until then, you know what you can do with both Deuteronomy and your hypocrisy.
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#235 Posted by PM on November 8, 2006 11:31:12 am
krishna miaN:
re ``Why don`t you just try and answer the question...?``

Here are your questions: (from #223)
Why don`t YOU recheck the facts yourself? And let us know more about the ``reasonable`` nature of Islam, which the extraordinarily bright Islamist (again, a tautology) echoboom has helped you ``see``?

Now, I`ll get to answering them as soon as you can give me one good reason why I should bother. ``Because I said so`` won`t cut it, btw.
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#236 Posted by PM on November 8, 2006 11:44:41 am
#230 sattar2:

Thanks for the time, Sattar sahib.

re. ``That is, one is free to accept Islam as he wills, but will be killed if he leaves it. Go figure!!! ``

This would not be so unreasonable in the context I mentioned earlier... taht is, when Islam was a fledgling cult and in constant danger of falling prey to the machinations of munafiqeen.
In this context, it is even plausible that the alledged hadith you quote is authentic, though extremely situational.

What I personally find even more obnoxious is the position that those BORN into Muslim families are to be punished with the harshest of penalties (death?) while those who acutally CHOSE it are to be given some leeway to think about their actions. Go fig THAT!

It`s also exasperating how those taking the slightly justifiable ``make your choice and stick to it`` argument conveniently include those in the group who never really made the choice to begin with-- those merely born into that group!

So much for there being no compulsion, eh?!
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#237 Posted by Urstruly on November 8, 2006 12:20:04 pm
Re: # 234 PM

I did not say that ``Christians do not know shite about their religion``; these are your words. What I said was that Christians have turned their religion into a buffet religion. They pick what suits their lifestyle and openly reject what doesn`t. I gave you an example from the subject of Apostasy. The examples are so numerous but I will give you one more.

The subject of adultry, fornication, and rape is discussed more than 347+ times in both Old and New Testament, including Gospels and Psalms. (Compare this to Qura`n where the number of times this subject is discussed hardly treads into double digits.) At these places (in Bible) Divinity has shed light on this social evil in almost every possible way. The impact of this crime on social and familial life has been elaborated in detail; the punishments for these crimes, both worldly and otherworldly have also been discussed at length. And yet we see that today Christians are the most permissive of fornication and adultry. As a matter of fact in West fornication is encouraged from the very early age. Even in most conservative of Christian countries like Philipine and some south american countries fornication thrive as trade with government sanctions. For example in Chile there is no concept of divorce according to Catholic law but fornication and adultry not even raise the eyebrows.

And horror of horror, the perversions like homosexuality is openly being practiced in various Chritian denominations and promoted by clergy, but that is a different subject.

Anyway, the point that I am trying to make here is not to count the social evils that have seeped into Christianity but it is that abomination which is called by the name ``tolerance`` that has seeped into human vocabulary. The reason that I am calling `tolerance`` an abomination is not that it is a bad thing but in fact it is a the greatest human attribute, but in modern world atheists have successfully brainwashed Christians and other looser religions like hinduism, polytheism and animism that ``real tolerance`` is not practicing what the core teachings of these religions is but the ``real tolerance`` is not practicisng your religion at all - especially those aspects that contrdict the religion of atheism. It is quite understable in Christianity why they have become so brainwashed; it is because atheism has successfully defeated Christianity in West 3-4 centuries ago at all levels - moral, political, and judicial. It had to happen because they refused to accept the updated version of their religion i.e. Islam which has been the religion of all apostles of Allah from Abraham, to Moses, to Jesus and others up to the Prophet Mohammad (peace be upon them all)
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#238 Posted by Urstruly on November 8, 2006 12:30:29 pm

Look at the beauty of this prose. No doubt that Bible, Torah, Psalm, and Qura`n are like four springs (of water) that have emerged from one common source.

````Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body;
but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
What? Know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you...?
therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God`s.``


...........Corinthians 6:18-20

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#239 Posted by sattar2 on November 8, 2006 1:07:05 pm

PM (#236),

Thanks for your comments. Here are a few follow up thoughts …

Authenticity of hadith (“whoever changes his religion, kill him”) depends upon the definition of “authenticity”.

A hadith which accurately captures words of the dear Prophet (pbuh), but fails to capture the context, is unauthentic in my view. It is for this reason that I cited “missing context” as one of the possible errors in this hadith (#230).

Such hadith captures only a part of the message, which can lead one to erroneous conclusions. Truth, if not presented in its fullness, may potentially border on falsehood. Perhaps this explains the “truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth” part of the oath I see in Hollywood movies.

[Furthermore, web-link provided by “khurram” (#229) discusses this particular hadith. It states that this particular hadith does not have a continuous chain of narrators, which further undermines its authenticity.]

I’d even venture to say that Quran hardly makes any absolute statements at all. For every commandment Quran gives, it provides room to negotiate around it if circumstances so demand. It is perhaps for this reason that every issue Quran discusses, it does so over and over again, in varying contexts, under different set of circumstances. And (yet) it encourages a person to use his good judgment with sincerity, compassion, and truthfulness - bearing in mind that he remains accountable to Allah Almighty.

Life is too complex a thing to be governed by hard and fast rules. Each situation demands a new view of things, a fresh approach. Absolutely limiting a person to few, unconditional options leads to an unworkable situation. Such a gridlock would reflect poorly on the Law itself and would serve to highlight its weaknesses …
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#240 Posted by sattar2 on November 8, 2006 3:36:10 pm

Urstruly …

Granted, Torah and New Testament have the same source as Quran. But what you conveniently ignore is that … earlier scriptures have undergone severe changes at the hands of people. You are aware of this, but for some insane reason continue to play dumb.

[If you read Bible a bit more, you’ll run into accounts of Lot’s wife turning into pillar of salt, incest between Lot and his daughters, Noah getting drunk and naked, etc. Bible will also tell you it’s alright for one to beat his slave to death, that a deceased man’s brothers have rights over his widow, and more.

... I hope such items are not on your agenda next … ]

Quran corrects errors that found their way into earlier scriptures. It also changes some of the teachings of earlier religions. It therefore claims to have completed the Divine Law.

While I’d encourage every Muslim to study Bible for better understanding, it is absurd for a Muslim to override Quran with Bible. There is a word for such people. They are called CHRISTIANS!!!

Why do you keep running away from Quran ... remains a mystery ...
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    #44 hamidm2
    #43 Urstruly
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