Wahabism in Centers of Learning

Thank god for the APMSO

Re: # 1

`` Islamic secular state...``

that was as fantastic a spin as Mushy`s ``enlightened moderation``...............I could not help smiling............

Daer Osama,

Pakistan is rapidly turning to Talibanization and the main culprits are these ``educated`` middle class who have been mouthing stupid GUTS theory with the belief that excessive show of religiousity would help them gain in social stature. Call it the Pakistani version of ``Sanskritization`` which we saw in the 50-s and 60-s in India. I would call this phenomenon as ``Talibanization`` as a way to gain social mobility within the Pakistani community.
Have you seen how these mullahs flash the best cellphones, smell of the best itar and move in the best cars. If you see them then you can get the gist of this Talibanization which is essentailly a conspiracy by the mullahs to gain power. And why should not ? After all Pakistani constitution is ``Islamic`` and no one is better to interpret this constitution`s core but the mullahs. So the mullahs are just asking for their right to rule PAkistan.
The dangers are now getting more clear and present. The question is that HOW CAN ONE TURN PAKISTAN into a SECULAR REPUBLIC in order to avoid the imminent Talibanization and rule by the Ulemas.

Re: # 29

muhammad was a wahabi !

...... i had always suspected that and now urstruly has confirmed my worst fears ........ so, now that we know that saudi arabia is following the principles of this dastardly, but true, fatih where do the rest of us go ? ........... it is a sickening thought

#22 zeemax

Hi, zee. Thanks

#21 dullabhatti

Hi

#36 hamdim2

Prophet Mohd(PBUH) was NEVER a wahabi. In his Islam, there is NO place for any ,``ISM.

Wahabism is CONTROLLING the innocent minds. Prophet(PBUH) was never a controlling human. He was kind and down to earth human with all his simple ways of life.

Wahabis have their own new religion following their own prophet , called Moulana Moududi.

#36 Hamidm2

[where do the rest of us go]

Mian, look at the bright side!

At least the Pakistanis got together and put your campaign donation money to good use and got that Brooklyn Congressman to slip in his anti-Gandhi tirade two-pager into the Congressional Records!

Shabas (not-so-much-any-more) Jawan!

#37 Zeena

[Wahabism is CONTROLLING the innocent minds.]

Is it controlling yours?

If yes, where DOES the gas-bag H₂ go?

If not, thes STOP trying to act so!

#39 bjkumar

I am NOT that innocent.

I guess you`re also following WAHABISM.

If yes, where DOES the gas-CO(LETHAL carbon mono) go?

If, not, then STOP your controlling attitude so!

bye

Re: # 35

ballu

The question is that HOW CAN ONE TURN PAKISTAN into a SECULAR REPUBLIC in order to avoid the imminent Talibanization and rule by the Ulemas.

You can only do it through Islam. This is not a matter of spin. Islam at its core shares the values of secularism for example to Holy Prophet`s (saw) saying ``whoever hurts a dhimmi (non-believer) hurts me``.

But the way I see it urstruly, echo & co. want to impose a theocracy, hamidm2 and his ilk wishes to run from the very issues at stake rather than confront them head on (i.e. the nature of Islam in the state), and you and bj want to pour petrol on the issues for petty ideological point scoring.

But you cant solve the issues until you study Islam.

Urstruly:

As much as I have quite a bit of admiration for Abdul-Wahab,I must say that things started getting out of hand in the eighteenth century when the son of Abdul-Aziz ibn Saud ( not the founder of present Saudi dynasty as KIng) got married to the daughter ob Abdul-Wahab.

Now nothing illegal or immoral about it but this , in my opibiob, is a close parallel of the Katherine ( Catherine) from the Midici family (Pope`s family then) getting married to King Henry ll of england. She was from france..{ & that is another great juicy scandalous story upon story). The rot in the affairs of the english Kindom was then set.

and so did the rot set in the Saudi dynasty.

The greatest blow came when the British-Saudi nexus was formed & the Hashemi CLAN of the prophet (pbuh) was driven out of Medina & Makkah. So much so that now not a single Hashmi is found. The members or the descendants of the prophet`s house were forced to migrate within 50 years after Karbala anyway ( that is why ALL the tombs are outside arabia).

But when matters go out of hand they have a tendency to gain a momentum of their own.
Now came the turn of Siddiquis, Farooquis, and Uthmaanis...Most of these in India are the ones who migrated in the 1700`s. So did Qureishis. These came either via sindh or by boat thru SOUTH India and not with the Northern conquerers.
[ Qureishis always had monoply of the sacrifices & meat market.....because that is where money is..:)....& this tradition was when this lineage of the House of Qureish was from Qusay..remember Saddam`s son`s name?...Hence the word Qasaee for butcher but always respectfully & politely called Qureishis...........there I got it out of my chest].


to cut a long story short.......if no oil was discovered the stupidities which the
subsequent Royal-Religious Cabals started would never have happened. The ``puratinism`` , a complete anti-thesis of Wahaab who really wanted to Up-grade & bring religious practice as a dynamic & in-tune with times [ never use the word modern..it has become tainted corrupted just like wahabbi & terrorism & fundamentalism).

THe attack on Ka`aaba by these maniacal Zealots just a few decades ago was instigated because of the inauguration of the first TV station in Saudi Arabia. Prior to that unless azan was broadcast on radio, the movement was labeling it Satan`s voice.

Just as every muslim is being called a terrorist or potential terrorist or sleeper-cell [ if you are h2 & t32 type) so did these guys carried their bida`aa & shirk puritanism too far.


enough said...........thanks for a patient reading.

Re: # 41 oak

lahol wila quawat

I do not support theocracy in any shape and form. As a matter of fact I would suggest that ulema should stay away from politics and only influence it as a moral conscience only. What I promote in Pakistan is a constitutional democracy where no law is made that contradicts Islamic injunctions. I do not belive that vice and virtue is the responsibility of government and if it is then only to the extent as its limits were established by Holy prophet (pbuh) in the state of Medina and Four righteous caliphs after him. I favor the legislative and judicial autonomy given to all non-Muslim minorities since by the principles established by Holy Prophet (pbuh), Islamic law does not apply to them. I have no problem with a multi-party system as long as all parties pledge their allegiance to the letter and spirit of constitution. I favor a Presidential system where Amir (i.e. President) is elected by a direct vote from all constituencies. I favor a canadian style confederate political structure in pakistan where center only controls four basic branches of Executive i.e. Defence, Currency, Foreign Affairs, and Security. All four units then must elect their own Prime Ministers who would pledge their allegiance toi The Amir and Constitution. I donot see that such a system can only be run by Clergy or it can be termed as a theocracy in all fairness.

Re: # 41

oak,

...... you do not see the irony (i call it a two-faced hypocrisy ) in this statement :````whoever hurts a dhimmi (non-believer) hurts me`` ?????? ......... the very fact that wahabism (aka islam) divides humanity into two groups should tell you that it DOES NOT share the values of secularism ............ it is all putrid hogwash and a sad attempt at eyewash ......... pakistan, or for that matter any country with a sizeable muslim population, can never be turned into a secular republic without considerable bloodshed ........... and it will take at least another hundred years before wahabism (islam) is thoroughly defeated, humiliated and disgraced - only then will people stop clinging to this insidious ideology ............... in the mean time, we have to figure out how to live with this chronic disease ...........

#43 by Urstruly on November 3, 2006 8:31am PT
Re: # 41 oak

lahol wila quawat

---

DITTO

DITTTO

DITTO

Re: # 43

Ok, that`s all well and good. But re: your previous statement:

but more I read about Wahabism, salfism, and Imam Abdul Wahab the more I am inclined to look at their practices in favorable light.

Urstruly

When you endorse something you have to know what you are signing up for. Allah knows best about Imam Abdul Wahab. But Salafism tends towards theocracy, la raib.

Salafism differs from the earlier contemporary Islamic revival movements of Islamism of the 1970s and 1980s, in that (at least many) Salafis reject not only Western ideologies such as socialism and capitalism, but also common Western concepts like economics, constitutions, political parties, revolution and social justice. Muslims should not engage in Western activities like politics, ``even by giving them an Islamic slant.`` [7] Instead, Muslims should stick to Islamic activities, particularly dawah and jihad. Salafis promote sharia rather than an Islamic political program or state. Wikipaedia

I mean this phenomena is very common in the UK, you see it all the time. I don`t know what kind of salafists you`ve met.

But in principle the for of government you have outlined is not salafi. Give it to a salafi - he will rip it apart.

Urstruly (43):

… what you forgot to mention is your support for killing a person if he leaves Islam, locking up an Ahmadi if he practices Islam, and executing a person for adultery (since this is what the Prophet commanded, according to you).

And then you claim that you do not support theocracy. Sounds like a load of double-talk …

Re: # 44

hamid

...... the very fact that wahabism (aka islam) ..........

Very simplistic analysis.

Go back, study your books, then come back here.