The Massacre at Bajaur

Those who think that people of Pakistan will take the massacre of school children and Huffaz-e-Qura`n just lying down, live in fools paradise. It is anybody`s guess that revenge will be painful and merciless.

Re: # 15

This nonsense would have been true 5 years ago but not quite even then. Had the President of Pakistan were a man with balls like Korean president and not a Kunt like Musharaf, a simple threat that pakistan would handover its nuclear technology to AlQaida would have stopped these coward baby killer crusaders right in their tracks. The fact of the matter is that a Pakistani President with a backbone would have prevented the genocide of 1 million Afghanis and Iraqis today.

Those people who talk about sanctions know very well that Pakistan have faced santions since 1989 till late 2001 and survived them very well- this is well over a decade for mathematically challenged. The only people who were effected by sanctions were the social class of ghulamzadas and haramzadas whose one avenue of corruption i.e. squandering foreign aid and loans was closed because of sanctions.

It is not the future historian but it is of todays that writes openly and without reservations that gukking western crusaders were liars and genocidal maniacs then and they are same now.

The world is convulsing for a new world order; West`s time is up. What goes up, must come down.

Re: # 10

Hamidm Sahib:

Kya jwaab dein aapke khyal ka...

I thought it was tried.... in 1948, 1965, and more recently in Kargil... Am I wrong?

This may only stretch Pakistan thin on more than one front.

Anil

#17 by Urstruly on November 5, 2006 7:31pm PT


Those who think that people of Pakistan will take the massacre of school children and Huffaz-e-Qura`n just lying down


Yawn...

you`re pakis..you`re just all bark and no bite...in the end you`ll just shut up and take it(and in your case, shut up and pay taxes that pay for the hellfires)...

The bombs on bajaur didn`t just blow up the terrorist madrassah..it shocked pakis out of their alternate universe existence and brought them, with a thud, down to reality...Pakis had always joined the war against the islamofascists out of compulsion..now you`re just waking up to reality...

faisaluno #15: .......pakistan`s position is quite a bit stronger than what you have stated.........the u.n is not going to sanction pakistan for anything.........the usa, today, is significantly dependent on pakistan.......it is the only country, which has actually had success in the usa`s gwot.........all other countries, including usa, have nothing but failures......why do you think bush and his govt. give musharraf such vip treatment.........

.........no country should be allowed to bomb people in another country.......imagine if usa bombed a madrassah in canada...........even if it had news that osama was going to be visiting it...........there would be hell to pay........the canadian ecnonomy, by the way, is far more dependent on usa than any other economy in the world..........

.........over 90% of ontario`s trade is with the usa........yet during the iraq war, there was one protest, after another in toronto..........interestingly, when i saw them up close, most of them were goras........they weren`t too concerned about being sanctioned by the usa.........or losing all their trade..........

........it is not in pakistan`s interest to become an enemy of usa........however, it has never been in pakistan`s interest to be a frontline state either..........i saw this up close during the first afghan war...........what did pakistan gain from it..........drugs, klashnikovs, taliban, osama and millions of refugees whom pakistan cannot take care of.........

........the same is going to happen again..........afghans hate pakistanis.........both the northern alliance and the taliban.........they are eventually going to kick nato out........they always kick out invaders.........then they, along with the tribal areas are going to go after pakistan.............

............us foreign policy has created a whole group of enemies for the usa.........the usa needs to fight them on its own.........pakistan need not get involved......let the usa fight it out in afghanistan........pakistan should assist in controlling the border as well as it can..........that`s all.............

.........the moment the usa launches even one bullet that kills even one convicted murderer in pakistan, pakistan should call it quits..........and withdraw all support..........rest assured, the usa will get the message.........it will not turn into the disaster scenario you have envisioned........

.........the current unlimited support to the usa, where it can simply send a drone into pakistan, bomb a house, kill women and children and innocents and then simply apologize is quite unprecendented........i doubt any other country (india, canada, mexico, or even tiny luxemburg) would allow this!

........this support is more related to musharraf, personally trying to survive than anything else........pakstani leaders have a maximum time in power of five years..........after that they become domestically vulnerable, regardless of how well they have done..........musharraf desparately needs us support, so he is letting the usa literally get away with murder.......

.........i have close friends in the pakistan military who are involved in these operations.........they are livid over the killings of innocents........some have outright refused and i believe are in jail..........

........try to look at this way and you will get your answer...........suppose someone from america (or anywhere else) came to kill your family member or rape them.........suppose they could cut off your electricity and your oil and your bank balance........would you allow them to kill and rape?

apply your answer to a whole country.............

What happened was truly tragic. At the moment, I do not know whether government`s claim is right or not, and pending independent investigation as mentioned in interact #2, I cannot draw any conclusions. Saying this, by the anecdotal evidence, it does seem to be the case where government is trying to deceive general public, and a strong evidence of this cover up is refraining of the journalists to enter that area immediately after the incident.

But one thing is certain; they were killed without trial, while they slept in their rooms. This is a gross violation of human rights and sanctity of human life. If it is done by Americans, then shame on them; if done by Pakistanis, shame on them; if it is done by Americans and being covered up by Pakistanis, then shame on Americans, and double shame on Pakistani establishment.

In 1919 a law was passed by British Raj, which was called Rowlatt Act. This act gave raj the powers to imprison any person without trial, if he is suspected of terrorism in the Raj. Everyone opposed it including the future founders of Pakistan and India. Jinnah resigned in protest from legislature, and Gandhi launched his civil disobedience movement in protest.

Our founding fathers fought for the rights of people, and where the situation of human rights of India and Pakistan stands today? Just look what happened in Bajaur, and just see what is happening in Indian Kashmir. Extra-judicial imprisonment are rampant in both countries (watch human rights watch reports for both countries), yet we feel elated by the growing richness of select urban populace, forgetting that a significant populace of both countries still remain below poverty line, is illiterate, and above all abused by the law and order enforcement community. Top of it, I feel disgusted that how most people from both countries compare their respective ruins of humanity, and criticize the other forgetting that the same shit hole exist in their own backyard.

Love of our own country is great, but I don`t see why it should stop at borders by starting to judge others by the criteria, which we do not want for ourselves.

#21 by bulleya on November 5, 2006 9:11pm PT


the usa, today, is significantly dependent on pakistan.


The US is dependent on Pakistan like a homeowner is dependent on a toilet plunger...while both may be necessary, they are essentially used to clean up toilets...and once that is done, they are usually kept away in their containers..

Re: # 21 & #11 Bulleya

Romair, there is one major omission in your analyis: INDIA. Pakistan`s options viz a viz the US are limited because of Pakistan`s hostile relations with India. The US (and India) know that Pakistan is (and can be) squeezed as long as it maintains hostile relations with both. A fundamentalist leader in Pakistan in the future will simply turn the US openly hostile to Pakistan. It is too late know for Pakistan to `disengage` from Afghanistan. As long as tribal infiltration from NWFP and FATA continues into Afghanistan, Pakistan will be unable to disengage. And by the way, the latest round of pressure on Pakistan is coming not from the US, but from Netherlands-commanded NATO. CIAO

Re: # 21

Romair:

Your analysis is very interesting, you should also comment, can Pakistan be bombed back to stone age or disintegrated by the west? This possibility seems to be driving the current leadership. Now the center of gravity of taliban and islamic terrorism (whatever it means), as defined in the west, is now inside Pakistan and not in Afganistan any longer. Don`t you think therefore, Pakistan is no longer a front line state, in fact it could potentially be containing a buffer area where such elements will be contained.

Recent news that the U.S. is ready to talk to Iran about Iraq situation, does not spell good for Pakistan. If the U.S. and west normalize relations with Iran and Iraq has shia government, the oil balance is no longer in Saudi Arabia. What use Pakistan will be to the west in this situation? If OBL & Co. and terror is contained inside Afganistan and Pakistan, the west is able to isolate oil from terror.

Can Iraqi government and Iranians isolate oil from terror? And the U.S. Iran talks on Iraq are more significant issues. The outcome of these will have more consequences on Pakistan. According to my calculations, Pakistan is done once again. Sooner or later, it will loose its tribal areas, and may even loose NWFP, while Afaginistan may be redrawn to exlude its Pashtun areas. How does Iran take unrest in Balochistan is going to be an issue.

A democratic Iran is going to be a force to reckon in that part of the world. Not Pakistan, not Afganistan. Pakistan`s best hope is to restore power to democratic institutions and let these institutions ensure its integrity. This game is not Kashmir and India, and is beyond the reach of Pakistan military. My discussions with Indians certainly elude to this scenario being played out. The only delay is for the U.S. to recognize Iran as a power in the middle east, which Europe already does.

Anil

Why do you protest?

Don`t you know, Slaves should not protest because this protest means nothing. Its useless & waste of time & energy.

Re: # 19


anil mian,

.......... it worked in `48 - if it hadn`t been for the terrible tribals, the horrible hindoos would have occupied what is left of free kashmir .......... the tribal pathans, because of their limited cranial cavity and religious zeal, are perhaps the most patriotic of all pakistanis ........ if the army was doing what it is paid to do, instead of running the kabbadi association and the cricket board, they would recruit them as bashi-bazouks and have them lead the way to srinagar .......... after all, the ottomans were able to use imbeciles like them to knock some sense into bulgarians and other uppity people ................ but that is just wishful thinking - the way things are going in pakistan, it is more likely that our bashi-bazouk wannabes will restrict themselves to stealing manhole covers, driving trucks, selling heroin and blowing up paki soldiers for entertainment ............

It is tragic what Pakistan and the US have done to the Afghan and Pakistani tribals. They have reduced them to the status of wild animals who can be slaughtered at will.

Contrast that with Mahatma Gandhi, who inspired Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan, a Pushtoon, to become non-violent and lead the Khudai Khitmatgars. If today someone says that the Pathans can be non-violent and work towards social change, everyone will laugh. But Gandhi pulled it off, so much so that almost half of the province voted to be with India. Its their bad luck that they ended up in Pakistan and got royally Paindooed in the name of Islam.

This article is worth a read:

Los Angeles Times Editorial, Nov. 6, 2006

``Despite Pakistan`s claim to have stopped supporting the Taliban after its 2001 ouster, the evidence is now overwhelming that the Pakistani security service — the Inter-Services Intelligence, or ISI — and probably the senior military leadership are tolerating, if not backing, Taliban forces.``

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-ed-afghan06nov06,0,7228548.story?coll=la-opinion-leftrail

ranjeet

``But Gandhi pulled it off``

Actually, Badshah Khan pulled it off...although Gandhi ji certainly provided the inspiration :)

People of the area were not always the religiously inspired ``animals`` that so many outsiders see them as these days. Unbelievable as it may be, it was the great land of Gandhara, of Purushpur, of TakshaShila, and most amazing of all - of Kanishka....

Re: # 30
[...Unbelievable as it may be, it was the great land of Gandhara...]

Interesting... so what happened? how did these people went from great civilization to utter barbarians?... Islam was probably a great factor - but was that all?...

It would be an interesting study to trace such spectacular degeneration of a great land and its people...

There is absolutely no doubt left in my mind anymore that Pakistan is destined to go by the way of Iran through a bloody revolution. I think military dictatorship and corrupt westernized social class has now crossed the point of no return. Now the things are bound to get worst before they get better.

The reason is simple, military jiunta has upped the ante just in case Democrats win the house. The Democrats have started cajoling pak civilian leadership already and it is written on the wall that the days of dictatorship in Pak are numbered, as the powers that be in US have already started looking for a ``chrismatic leader`` in US who would enable them to pull themselves out of Iraq and Afghanistan. Of course military dicatatorship in pak and neocons in us would not let that happen easily. So there will be more carnage to keep Americans tied in both countries.