The Massacre at Bajaur

Re: # 159

To put it a bit differently....

Indians are increasingly forward looking precisely because they don`t care two hoots about Gandhi... Pakistanis have been falling back precisely because they don`t give two hoots about Jinnah...

This is a very important difference.

#160 by Yasser

Whether a third rate call center worker accepts a contention that is universally known is hardly on issue.

Which I take is an admission of your inability to prove that ``tens of thousands`` comment. What were you thinking Yasser? Third-rate lawyers must remain confined to their courts and panchayats and not dabble into something that they have no idea about. Just because you strike a nice pose at some IT fair doesn`t make you a ``SAP coordinator`` (do you even know what it means?). Simpletons might accept it at face value, but anyone who has a little background in IT can expose you for the pseudo you are. Besides, the fact that to your limited mental faculties, IT means little beyond call centers, is a clear giveaway that you have absolutely nothing to do with IT even remotely, no matter how much you make tall claims about your brothers and cousins being project managers.

Does it really matter that you don`t think Pakistani Engineers are there in these companies?

Then why did you go out of your way to claim that ``tens of thousands`` of Paki engineers were working in ``major US companies``? This statement would have been more credible had it come before I asked the question. Now all it does is expose your complete lack of your ablity to prove your claims. In simple terms its exposes you for a liar.

One of the biggest diversity groups at MICROSOFT campus is ``Pakistanis at Microsoft``

Aww really? Who says so? Yasser, the third-rate liar..er..lawyer from Lahore? Sorry if no one takes it seriously. You must have some source to back up everything that you pompously mouth off. This is not like another one of your famous comments: ``Ittefaq Foundries would have been bigger than Tata Steel`` comment.

``#151 by Mantolives on November 8, 2006 0:46am PT
Re: # 150

As far as I can see you are probably a second New York Cabby.... who has now fallen back on the same old Indian propaganda that is your hallmark. ``

Sir ji, I interact with you using facts and using decent language. However, when u cannot counter facts with facts, you resort to mud slinging.

and bhai, since you have such a pea sized brain, no wonder you did not look beyond the names of the companies i listed in my earlier post. While the list I gave was just an example, I had mentioned that I can go on. However, I will just post a website address, and from that you can see for your self the number of companies that are listed and will list in american exchanges.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/EL10Df02.html

this article was published in 2003. so you can do your math and see how many companies would have listed in us by now. The score for pakistan as you have admitted remains at 2 only.

and bhaiji, why haven`t you answered my question about getting soooo angry.

rgds,

devkant.

BTW, here are some of the Indians at Microsoft. Is there a similar list of Pakis at MS? I`m dying to know. Pardon us if we want some proof of even a ``contention that is universally accepted``. Don`t bother to post if you don`t have the proof.

http://specials.rediff.com/money/2006/jun/20sld1.htm

Re: # 163

Dear Devkant,

Please don`t talk of decent language. Weren`t you encouraging your incompetent hindustani bhai to come and kick my rearend yesterday? You`ve been interacting with me for what... 5 years now? I know how foul mouthed you are... so my calling you a cabby does not even come close to any ``mud slinging`` that you and Harish mian are capable of.

The point here is that your original contentions have been countered. Your original contention was that there were no Pakistani companies on the NASDAQ .... and there were no Pakistani Engineers in major US companies.... You were shown up to be the liar that you are...

So don`t talk about decency


Dear Harish mian,

It seems to me that you`ll never get over the fact that I am infinitely more successful than you.... be it at SAP or Law...

And before you go on talking of famous statements... why don`t you come back to the boards where some of your famous statements proved you to be the biggest joke on this website. Shall we proceed there?

#165 by Yasser addressed to Devkant`s #163

Your original contention was that there were no Pakistani companies on the NASDAQ .... and there were no Pakistani Engineers in major US companies.... You were shown up to be the liar that you are...

So how many names of Paki engineers working in major US companies have you provided here? Not one. Zilch. So who`s the liar here?

#165 by Yasser addressed to me

It seems to me that you`ll never get over the fact that I am infinitely more successful than you.... be it at SAP or Law...

The way you`re fumbling to name a few Paki engineers working in ``major US companies``, I`m convinced that you know diddly about IT. As for being successful at law, that you`re unable to come up with a clincher proves that you`re not too good at it. On both counts dear Yasser, you`re a massive failure.

Shall we proceed there?

Why? Getting too hot here, is it? So tell us the names of some of the Paki engineers working for ``major US companies``, will you? Or will you be your wishy washy self?

Re: # 164

After discovering that indeed ``Pakistanis at Microsoft`` is one of the largest diversity groups at Microsoft.... Harish mian has gone into overdrive and found some propaganda material from Rediff which knows how to make a mountain out of a molehill... (apparently most of them are associated with Microsoft India...)

There are many Pakistanis... Vaqar Khamisiani, Farhan Muhammad, Rao Shahzad, Jawaad Rahman, Nasser Ghazi etc who were big shots in the US Microsoft... if I started counting Microsoft Pakistan employees... it would be ridiculous... but to a call center employee there would be no difference...

Re: # 166

Harish mian, if you want to argue like a brainless maccaca... go ahead. I am afraid I don`t feel the need to divulge the names of my family members and friends simply to prove something that is clearly proved from this source below:

``...Another change for EEs over the years, according to the IEEE-USA survey, is that Asian-American IEEE members have the highest median incomes ($99,000), non-Hispanic, white members are at $93,000, and others (usually engineers or computer scientists from India, Pakistan, or the Middle East) have medians of $92,100.``

http://www.elecdesign.com/Articles/Index.cfm?AD=1&ArticleID=2864


Unless.... ofcourse IEEE President is lying in this article... there are Pakistani engineers working at par with Indians... So far... other than dropping ``Narayan Murthi`` ... you haven`t produced any Indian engineers either... but I am not stupid enough to question the fact that they are not employed there.

So who is the liar? You are.

Re: # 168

PS... just remember the last time you went on such repetitive regurgitation.... you ended up looking really stupid... So I suggest proceed with some humility. You clearly don`t have much going in your life ... so atleast keep your dignity intact.

``#165 by Mantolives on November 8, 2006 3:01am PT
Re: # 163

Dear Devkant,

Please don`t talk of decent language. Weren`t you encouraging your incompetent hindustani bhai to come and kick my rearend yesterday? You`ve been interacting with me for what... 5 years now? I know how foul mouthed you are... so my calling you a cabby does not even come close to any ``mud slinging`` that you and Harish mian are capable of. ``

sirji, if i can remember correctly i did encourage harish bhai to kick some rear ends. but did i specifically mention your rear end????? lets take a look down below at my post and make an impartial judgement: -

#106
``harish bhai....

i had originally only called yasser. but mujumdar bhai added you to the list.

but now that you are here, whats the hurry. wait a bit, have some fun, kick some behinds and then leave...

devkant.``

is yasser`s rear end mentioned anywhere?????? it seems that you get your rear end kicked sooooo many times that even when comments are not directly made at you, you think that you are the one everyone is talking about. u don;t need to be sooo insecure about yourself.

and about foul mouthing you, yes i agree that i have done it in the past. but now if you are trying to justify use of foul language based on past experience, well, then i can only compare you to a nagging housewife.

and my original contention was NEVER that there are no pakistani companies on the nasdaq or that there are no pakistani engineers in top companies. i had talked about numbers dude. is it soo difficult for you to read and understand simple english.

and after i tore apart your logic of tata`s being old and so they are big and so they can take over big companies, i haven`t seen you come and counter this arguement.

So once again, going by your logic of old company being big and only than it can take over a billion dollar company, it means that companies like microsoft which are bearly 35 years old cannot take over and companies more than a billion dollars.

and bhaiji, i want to know why u got soooo angry when i pointed out that pakistani engineering was being put to good use.

rgds,

devkant.

Re: # 170

Dear Devkant bhaijaan...

Your best laid plans went awry because you bet on a rather weak horse. As for getting rearends whooped.... looks like you`ve been backing out of your assertions now... first no Pakistani engineers ... then no Pakistani companies on NASDAQ...

Now you are down to ``numbers``... well numbers speak very well I think when you consider that TATA steel or all Indian engineers in the world are not going to feed you and your family... that you are going to an emaciated rickety-legged cabby at the end of the day... What matters is despite all your numbers and ``achievements``... India is still below Pakistan on the GDP/Capita rank according to IMF... that is solid evidence of where you stand ... which is why you need these crutches in the first place.

Now here is some information for India-shining buggers...

Youngest certified MCSE professional... Pakistani.

Second youngest certified MCSE professional... also Pakistani

Third youngest certified MCSE professional.... you got it.

Now go give it to others...


{Worlds Youngest Microsoft Certified Professional (MCP), Exam passed on 29 March 2006 Through Prometric testing center.(Examinee ID=SR2274105 Registration#n2asyd5345)

Name: Babar Iqbal

Fathers Name: Engineer Mr. Abdul Shahid Sadiq

Date of Birth: 02 March 1997

Place of Birth: Dera Ismail Khan City NWFP Pakistan

Class: 5th


In smarts, she`s a perfect 10
`Pakistan`s girl wonder` is likely the youngest certified Microsoft expert

By TODD BISHOP
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER REPORTER

Sitting down for a personal meeting with Bill Gates this week, 10-year-old Arfa Karim Randhawa asked the Microsoft founder why the company doesn`t hire people her age.


Under the circumstances, the question wasn`t so unreasonable.

Arfa, a promising software programmer from Faisalabad, Pakistan, is believed to be the youngest Microsoft Certified Professional in the world. The designation, given to outside experts who prove their ability to work with Microsoft technologies, has also been achieved by some teenagers. But it`s far more common among adults seeking to advance their computer careers.

Arfa received the certification when she was still 9, an impressive accomplishment in its own right, according to older programmers who have gone through the process. And others called it an encouraging sign of the continued emergence of women in a country where they have historically struggled to advance.

The situation illustrates ``another side`` of Pakistan, said Anand Yang, director of the University of Washington`s Jackson School of International Studies. ``That`s another reason to celebrate someone like her.``


Dan DeLong / P-I
Ten-year-old Arfa Karim Randhawa of Pakistan, believed to be the youngest person in the world to have earned Microsoft Certified Professional status, visits the company`s Redmond campus.
Arfa`s one-on-one meeting with Gates was part of a visit this week to the company`s Redmond campus, arranged and sponsored by Microsoft to better introduce Arfa to the company, and to give people at headquarters a chance to meet her. The week included lab tours and a series of informal sessions with Microsoft executives and employees, including a Pakistani employee group.

She made an impression through a combination of charm, flattery and boldness uncommon for someone her age. For example, during Arfa`s meeting with Gates, she presented him with a poem she wrote that celebrated his life story. But she also questioned him about what she perceived to be the relatively small proportion of women on the campus.

``It should be balanced -- an equal amount of men and an equal amount of women,`` she explained afterward.

About 75 percent of Microsoft employees are men, according to company data. Recounting their conversation, Arfa said Gates acknowledged her concerns and talked about the broader industry`s struggles to increase the proportion of women in technology-related fields.

Other topics they discussed included her Muslim faith and her hometown, an industrial city known for its textile businesses.

Afterward, Arfa described Gates as an ``ideal personality,`` explaining that he had been second only to Disneyland on her list of things she wanted to see in the United States. Previously unaware of the casual dress code at Microsoft, she said she had expected Gates to be wearing a suit but was surprised to find him in a casual shirt with the top button open.

``I expected that all the people would be here in suits,`` she said with a giggle, wearing a hat acquired during her earlier visit to the company`s Xbox game studios.

Later in the afternoon, she sat outside with S. ``Soma`` Somasegar, a Microsoft corporate vice president, and described her vision for a self-navigating car. He listened to her ideas and told her about some of Microsoft`s existing software for cars.

To be sure, despite her question to Gates about employing people her age, Microsoft wasn`t about to offer a job to someone so young. But Somasegar talked about the possibility of an internship in a few years.

``The thing that`s exciting to me is her passion for technology at this age,`` said Somasegar, who decided to invite Arfa to Redmond after reading a story about her in MicroNews, an internal company newsletter.

The visit to Microsoft headquarters was the culmination of a meteoric rise that has turned Arfa into something of a celebrity in her country. It began at age 5, when she walked by a computer lab at her school and started wondering about those strange ``boxes,`` the computers and monitors. Later, when she found out what they did, she was amazed.

``When you push a button, something magically appears on the box,`` she said, recalling the experience.

She eventually persuaded her father to buy a computer, and she demonstrated unexpected aptitude, using Microsoft PowerPoint and other programs. Encouraged by what she was doing, her father took her to Applied Technologies, or APTECH, an advanced computer institute nearby.

``I saw her doing something extraordinary, making presentations,`` said her father, Amjad Karim, who serves with a U.N. peacekeeping force in Africa and came with his daughter to Microsoft this week. ``That made me think that she could use some professional coaching, and she could do better in her future life.``

Karim said he is careful not to push his daughter, but wanted to make sure that the opportunities existed for her to pursue her interest. He said he first noticed something unusual when she started displaying a remarkable memory, perhaps photographic, at a young age.

The people at the computer institute required some persuading, because of her age, but they accepted her as a student, taught her about programming and ultimately told her father that she appeared to be in a position to seek Microsoft certification.

The institute instructors assumed it would take Arfa about a year to go through the process of certification for developing Windows applications. But after four months of study and work, over summer vacation, she passed the required exams.

Her programming experience so far has been as part of her studies. She has created basic Windows applications, such as a calculator and a sorting program, primarily in the C# programming language. The certification she received was as a Microsoft Certified Application Developer. She says she plans to pursue a more advanced certification, as a Microsoft Certified Solution Developer, which involves building programs into a broader system for a business.

Arfa`s accomplishment is ``very impressive,`` said Michael Earls, 33, a software consultant and Microsoft Certified Solution Developer in Atlanta. ``The type of thinking that goes into correctly answering those questions is pretty mature. ... Microsoft certifications are not a joke -- they`re highly respected in the industry.``

Ultimately, Arfa says, she would like to go to Harvard University or MIT, and then either go to work for Microsoft, in its developer division, or become a satellite engineer.

Since learning about Arfa from her father -- and validating her programming abilities through an additional exam of their own -- Microsoft representatives in Pakistan have held her up as an example in the country.

``We discovered her, we ran into her, we feel very lucky,`` said Jawwad Rehman, Microsoft`s country manager in Pakistan, who also accompanied her to Redmond this week. ``But I`m sure there are many others out there, as well, who don`t have access to the computers or the proper education system`` as Arfa did.

As word of her accomplishment has spread in her country, Arfa has appeared on TV, in newspapers and spoken at Microsoft events. One youth magazine called her ``Pakistan`s girl wonder.`` A U.S.-based reporter for GEO TV, a 24-hour news and entertainment channel in Pakistan, came to Redmond this week to document her visit to the campus.

Although she has had a birthday since passing the certification test last year, Arfa is careful to point out that she was 9 when she took the exam. More precisely, she says, she was nine years, nine months, 11 days, and six hours. Fully aware of the fact that she`s the youngest Microsoft Certified Professional, she wants to be specific about her age at the time, in case another young programmer emerges someday to challenge what she calls her ``world record.``

Her mother and two brothers, ages 3 and 7, stayed home while she and her father came to the United States. It was the first trip to the country for both. After some sightseeing in Seattle, they`re scheduled to return home tomorrow from their Microsoft adventure.

Next time, Arfa says, she hopes to visit Disneyland, as well.}

#168 by Mantolives on November 8, 2006 3:20am PT
``there are Pakistani engineers working at par with Indians... So far... other than dropping ``Narayan Murthi`` ... you haven`t produced any Indian engineers either... but I am not stupid enough to question the fact that they are not employed there.

So who is the liar? You are. ``

monto bhaiya,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_notable_Indian_Institutes_of_Technology_alumni

hopefully the above website should quench your thirst about notable engineers from iit. while these are only famous names, there are hundreds and thousands more who work behind the curtains whose names we will never know. also if you see the companies they are associated with or founded, i am sure you will realise that many of those companies are ones that have touched all of us in some way or the other.

hopefully now at least you will produce a list of famous pakistani engineers from a famous pakistani engineering institute who have made as big as the iitians.

and bhai, if you can`t come up with any info, please take my nyc cab on rent and start driving it.

rgds,

devkant.

``#171 by Mantolives on November 8, 2006 3:38am PT
Re: # 170

Dear Devkant bhaijaan...

Your best laid plans went awry because you bet on a rather weak horse. As for getting rearends whooped.... looks like you`ve been backing out of your assertions now... first no Pakistani engineers ... then no Pakistani companies on NASDAQ...

Now you are down to ``numbers``... ``

bhaiji, it was always about numbers, don`t believe me. lets once again see my post that i have reproduced here below. may be then the lawyer in you will speak the truth:

``#130
Regarding the greatness of pakistani engineers, please do let us indians know some of the following: -

1) Which was the last pakistani company that was involved in a billion dollar take over deal in the west. (For the Indians it was Tata Steel)

2) Which is the famous pakistani engineering institute which has produced world class engineers and whose alumni have been involved in some of the top most engineering companies world wide. Please do give some names of the alumni too. (For the Indians its The Indian Institute of Technology and I will give you the name of 1 very famous alumni. The alumni is Mr. Narayan Murthy. more can be provided on request. The last we indians heard was that the indian govt had agreed to reserve 2 seats in all iit`s for pakistani students. I don`t think that the proposal got off the ground though.)

3) How many pakistani engineering companies are listed on the the Nasdaq (Indian companies include Satyam Computers, Infosys Tech, Wipro etc). ``

bhai, if you still can`t read what i had written, please take a white stick before you go on the streets. and don`t cross the road alone.

rgds,

devkant.

Re: # 172

You`ve got to be kidding me... have you lost your mind?

So you produced a list of only 50 odd alumni from Wikipedia of 20 different campuses... from 1916 onwards (a period of 90+ years)... and that somehow proves your point that Pakistani Engineers are not employed by US companies?

One would not expect such specious logic from a serious person like Ramalinga Raju... but a New York Cabby like yourself... yes.

monto....the list dude....the list of famous paki engineers from a famous paki institute. WHERE IS IT???????????????????

Re: # 173

Oh my bad... so your point was that since there are 3 Indian companies as opposed to Pakistan`s two on the NASDAQ ... and because there are more Indian Engineers than Pakistani Engineers in major companies... India has a shiny ass and you have the right to jerk off on it? Look you may jerk off on India`s shiny ass all you want.. it is your god given right my friend.

However.... Bharat mata looks very old and wrinkly when one considers that its GDP/Capita is still below that of the poor wretched country that Pakistan self admittedly is...and that no amount of fair and lovely application will make Bharat Mata`s ass shiny enough ...