The Massacre at Bajaur

Dear Farooq,
there are two sides of this picture, your article is nothing but a one sided drivel.

there is a fact finding mission send to Bajour not by the government but by the union of lawyers from Peshawar - they will leave tommarrow -
what happened , should not have had happened ! my hunch is that it was Americans trying to de-stabalize the peace pact and blackmailing Pakistani Government ....and nothing more!

why is it that anytime a newsworthy event takes place in pakistan bozos behind this website immediately put the worst possible spin on that event? for example when economic indicators began to show that economy was turning around this website published a spate of articles rubbishing govt claims. riots after danish cartoons caused these clowns to predict pak would be turning into iran and after death of akbar bugti this website published dozens of articles predicting that pakistan would turn into iraq oh by the end of this year. funnily enough after bugti`s death violence in baluchistan has gone down by 90%, bugti`s party has disbanded and his grandson is hiding in kabul. this article should be seen in similar vein i.e. article has merits if you reside in cuckooland which certainly is the place of residence of chowk-staff.

as far as this even is concerned, this was also the modus operandi in waziristan i.e. the government first took on the militants who had no intention of honoring any agreement. while these people cannot be completely eliminated their ability to cause trouble can be minimized as has been done in waziristan where despite the agreement incidence of violence still takes place against parties linked with the govt. the other important aspect of this incidence is that jui which is the largest islamic and pakhtun party in pakistan was taken on board. thats why if you scour pakistani papers, you wont see maulana fazal-ur-rehman making any strong statements nor his party engaging in serious protests. jui did make a noise but that noise has about as much impact as u.s. statements on democracy in pak. jamat islami obviously will try to capitalize on this event because this is the only way it can gather any support. also if I am not mistaken, jamat has refused to accept the resignation of siraj-ul-haq, the nwfp finance minister who has resigned. also shows that mush’s policy of compromising with the mullahs was a very farsighted policy.

going back to my original question, who gives a rats ass? if this website is the best mush’s opponent can muster, than good luck to them. i would also advise them to stack up on heartburn medicine cause mush’s supporter will have much stronger presence in parliament after the next election.

while the Pakistani official said that the Americans only provided intelligence.


America provided the intelligence(and the drones and the hellfires and the operators) and Pakistani officials insulted the collective intelligence of the Paki public....

btw is it me or does anyone else think that events in indian occupied kashmir are never bought up on this website even though situation in kashmir as much more horrible than any place else in our part of the world?

liberace: Has the CIA dropped a hellfire from one of it`s drones in Indian Kashmir? No? didn`t think so...

how touching. pagal kutta, taking a page out of his forfather`s book - begging to be treated like human by his abusers.

Air force officers held for attempt to murder Musharraf with rockets

By Massoud Ansari in Karachi and Behroz Khan in Chinagai, Bajaur for The Sunday Telegraph
Last Updated: 12:13am GMT 05/11/2006

A cabal of Pakistani military officials with access to President Pervez Musharraf`s innermost security circle has been arrested after trying to assassinate him in a rocket attack.

The strike, aimed at the president`s high-security personal residence-office in Rawalpindi, took place shortly after he returned from Britain and the US in late September.

Although the president was not hurt, the attempt demonstrates the political instability engulfing his nation, which was heightened last week by his government`s bombing of a madrassa in north-west Pakistan killing 80 suspected militants.

With hardline religious parties orchestrating strikes and demonstrations, fears are growing that Gen Musharraf`s opponents may make further attempts to remove him by force, creating a power vacuum in the Islamic world`s only nuclear-armed state.

According to Pakistani intelligence sources, about 50 people are being held on suspicion of involvement in the September attack, which involved a battery of Russian-made 107 mm projectiles launched by a signal from a mobile phone. Alarmingly, many are understood to be young officers serving in the Pakistani Air Force, some of whom have access to high-security zones of the presidential offices, parliament and the intelligence service.

Although interrogations have not revealed any of them to have links with al-Qaeda or the Taliban, they are none the less believed to have acted out of growing anger at Gen Musharraf`s alliance with America in its war on terror.

One official said that while the rocket strike itself had been relatively amateurish, it would have probably been lethal had the plotters been assisted beforehand by an Islamic terrorist group.

Al-Qaeda has succeeded in indoctrinating young air force officers before. Two were hanged for their role in planting a 500lb bomb in 2003 blowing up a bridge that Gen Musharraf`s convoy was travelling over. He only escaped with his life because electronic jamming equipment on his car delayed the blast.

A rattled Gen Musharraf has called a meeting with his closest confidants this week to review personal security.

While he relies on the armed forces to keep him in power, loyalty among the military`s lower tiers has become increasingly in doubt because of the perception that he has ``sold out`` Pakistan to the US and its western allies.

Publicly, officials close to the president deny that he faces any challenge from within the forces.

But privately they now admit that the personal threat against him is becoming ``heavier and heavier``, and are predicting serious fall-out from Monday`s helicopter strike at the madrassa in the village of Chinagai, 100 miles north of -Peshawar.

The Pakistani army said the madrassa was an al-Qaeda-linked school, used to train insurgents fighting across the border in Afghanistan.

It was allegedly run by Liaquat Hussain, a fugitive cleric who was a purported associate of al-Qaeda`s second in command leader Ayman al-Zawahiri. Residents and local religious parties, however, claim the victims were either innocent Islamic students or teachers. They say that the strike was carried out at the direction of the US military, a claim denied by both Pakistan and Washington.

The madrassa was in the Bajaur province, a tribal area where local religious parties openly support the Taliban. Local leaders have already pledged to carry out suicide attacks to ``avenge`` the killing of ``innocent people``.

``The elimination of Musharraf is a must to restore peace,`` declared Maulana Faqir Muhammad, a pro-Taliban militant commander, as a crowd carrying guns and chanting, ``Death to Musharraf, death to Bush`` protested in the Khar area of Bajaur last week. He described Gen Musharraf as an ``American agent`` who, he said, was ``killing innocent people at the US behest``.

At a funeral of people killed in the strike, another cleric, Maulana Inayat-ur-Rehman, told 15,000 armed protesters that he had prepared a ``squad of suicide bombers`` to target Pakistani security forces in the same way that terrorists were attacking Americans in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Gen Musharraf has been on a hit list for Pakistan`s Islamic militants ever since he sided with America in the wake of the September 11 attacks.

Although he often claims that ``he is not an easy target``, he wrote in his recently published memoirs In the Line of Fire: ``I only pray that I have more than the proverbial nine lives of the cat.``

talk about taking a page out of your forefathers playbook:

http://www.zeenews.com/znnew/articles.asp?aid=333311&sid=NAT

Army for pro-active approach to fratricidal killings: Chief

Srinagar, Nov 03: The Army will adopt a ``pro-active approach`` to address the issue of fratricidal killings in the force, its chief General J J Singh said on Friday.

``I think we need to take a pro-active approach to assess, analyse and address them. We hope to overcome such challenges,`` Singh told reporters on the sidelines of a function here in response to a question on the issue.

Seven fratricidal killings in a period of just 30 days prompted Singh to recently instruct his top commanders to probe such incidents and come up with corrective measures.
...Some 100 suicides were reported during the past four to five years in insurgency-hit states. ``This year too, the number was almost same,`` he said adding the Army was trained to cope with this challenges.


...There has been a sharp rise in suicides and fratricidal killings of fellow officers and colleagues by soldiers and some events of this nature in the past 30 days have shaken the top brass, like the death of a Lieutenant Colonel Saxena, who was shot dead by a soldier in the Harwan region on the outskirts of Srinagar, last month.

Re: # 5


killing two birds with one stone

instead of wasting perfectly good tribesmen from bajaur we should have slipped them over the border into occupied kashmir ........... their lust for jihad would have been satisfied and in the end they would have ended up dead, like we want them, but at least we would have a few less horrible hindoos to deal with ........ now that is what i call a win-win !

.....it is a sad day when a country bombs its own people......it is even more sad, when it does so for the benefit of another country.......anytime any country kills, occupies, invades etc. its own citizens, it weakens greatly......

........my guess is that the americans bombed the madrassah from a drone.......american news sites are stating this also.........had the pakistan military done it, they would have provided evidence immediately........

........no civilized country ever bombs its own people........musharraf needs to figure out whether his aim is to satisfy the population of pakistan or that of the usa.......after all he is the president of pakistan, not of usa........

.......on the other hand, it is incidences like this, which increase the hatred of the usa amongst pakistanis..........would the usa bomb an apartment building in idaho if timothy mcveigh was their..........in fact, would the usa bomb an apartment builidng in idaho, if it knew mullah umar was there..........i doubt it.......ironically the usa will bomb a building in pakistan, killing innocents, if it thinks mullah umar is there.........and the pakistan govt. will then defend the attack, by claiming it to be its own.......

..........pakistan is once again getting itself caught as a, ``frontline state,`` in the us gwot.........it did so in the original afghan war and is still paying the price........i see the same disaster scenario developing again.........the afghan (taliban etc.) are eventually going to kick out the usa from afghanistan......this is getting more and more obvious..........they will not be strong enough to strike usa however............they will be strong enough to strike pakistan.........

........musharraf needs to start doing what the people of pakistan want him to do.......which, at the moment, is to stop bombing the tribal areas.........as stated earlier, he carried out the coup to become the president of pakistan.......if he wants to do what the american populace wants him to do, then he should have carried out a coup in the usa..........

........bombing of tribal areas is going to be musharraf`s waterloo.........there is huge amounts of opposition to it, down to the soldier level, in the military.........and the religious parties are going to gain a lot of popularity on this issue.........not to mention the fact that God knows how many innocent civilians are getting killed there.........

#11 by bulleya on November 5, 2006 4:10pm PT

Capt Clueless: As much as I thought you were clueless(or self-deluded) for making certains remarks over the years, that was a very well reasoned argument.

What you`re now seeing is the jihadi tiger you were hoping to ride on to srinagar and kabul is how heading to islamabad and you can`t get the hell off..

hamidm,

i agree this is very sad event. tribesmen are very patriotic people and such events will upset even those who want arabs and other foreigners out of fata. however govt just cant stand there and allow pak army jawan to become sitting ducks. around 800 officers have been killed and these killings have not stopped even after the signing of waziristan agreement.

there are a small number of tribesmen who are providing shelters to foreigners who are enemies of pakistan. i am glad that govt is taking these people on rather than burrying its head in the sand. going forward however i hope use of airpower will not be necessary. among other reasons use of airpower provides propaganda victory to opponents.

actually pretty much most countries in our neighbourhood bomb their own people. sri lankans bomb tamils, iranians and turks bomb the kurds. this does not mean that use of force is appropriate for every occasion but force when used strategically can provide a solution such as in karachi in the mid-90`s when death toll was at least 5x the number of killed in fata.

i think it will be useful to remind people how the situation has reached where it is. here are the sequence of events:

i. since the start of 1960`s, uncle sam has been interfering in the m.e. much to the detriment of the region.

ii. uncle sam`s actions have justifiably pissed off a lot of arabs and muslims in general.

iii. until 9/11 actions against americans were limited outside the u.s.

iv. on 9/11 arab war against the u.s. was bought home by arabs/muslims based in afghanistan.

v. in response, u.n. has given americans carte blanche. this means pakistan or any other country will have to do what americans demand.

vi. failure to cooperate with americans will result in certain actions. under this scenario u.s. and intl community will impose sanctions or worse bomb pakistan

vii. imposition of sanction will pretty much mean the end of pakistan as we know it. pak`s foreign currency reserves will be frozen and restrictions placed on intl trade which means no oil for pakistan.

viii. without oil pak`s economy will collapse. there will be no electricity, no transportation, no health care, no army etc. pakistan`s situation will be much worse than that iran or iraq because both countries have oil.

xi. once the economy collapses all bets are off. sindh and baluchistan certainly will go their own way because unlike the pathans, sindhis and mohajirs are not anti-american will not suffer without reason.

i can expand on this scary assed scenario but this should be frightening enough.

Mushrraf recieved 3.7 billion dollars from CIA for selling Pak citizen to GITMO -- I am not asking where all that money go -- I wonder HOW MUCH he got this time for Bajaur!

Those who think that people of Pakistan will take the massacre of school children and Huffaz-e-Qura`n just lying down, live in fools paradise. It is anybody`s guess that revenge will be painful and merciless.

Re: # 15

This nonsense would have been true 5 years ago but not quite even then. Had the President of Pakistan were a man with balls like Korean president and not a Kunt like Musharaf, a simple threat that pakistan would handover its nuclear technology to AlQaida would have stopped these coward baby killer crusaders right in their tracks. The fact of the matter is that a Pakistani President with a backbone would have prevented the genocide of 1 million Afghanis and Iraqis today.

Those people who talk about sanctions know very well that Pakistan have faced santions since 1989 till late 2001 and survived them very well- this is well over a decade for mathematically challenged. The only people who were effected by sanctions were the social class of ghulamzadas and haramzadas whose one avenue of corruption i.e. squandering foreign aid and loans was closed because of sanctions.

It is not the future historian but it is of todays that writes openly and without reservations that gukking western crusaders were liars and genocidal maniacs then and they are same now.

The world is convulsing for a new world order; West`s time is up. What goes up, must come down.

Re: # 10

Hamidm Sahib:

Kya jwaab dein aapke khyal ka...

I thought it was tried.... in 1948, 1965, and more recently in Kargil... Am I wrong?

This may only stretch Pakistan thin on more than one front.

Anil

#17 by Urstruly on November 5, 2006 7:31pm PT


Those who think that people of Pakistan will take the massacre of school children and Huffaz-e-Qura`n just lying down


Yawn...

you`re pakis..you`re just all bark and no bite...in the end you`ll just shut up and take it(and in your case, shut up and pay taxes that pay for the hellfires)...

The bombs on bajaur didn`t just blow up the terrorist madrassah..it shocked pakis out of their alternate universe existence and brought them, with a thud, down to reality...Pakis had always joined the war against the islamofascists out of compulsion..now you`re just waking up to reality...

faisaluno #15: .......pakistan`s position is quite a bit stronger than what you have stated.........the u.n is not going to sanction pakistan for anything.........the usa, today, is significantly dependent on pakistan.......it is the only country, which has actually had success in the usa`s gwot.........all other countries, including usa, have nothing but failures......why do you think bush and his govt. give musharraf such vip treatment.........

.........no country should be allowed to bomb people in another country.......imagine if usa bombed a madrassah in canada...........even if it had news that osama was going to be visiting it...........there would be hell to pay........the canadian ecnonomy, by the way, is far more dependent on usa than any other economy in the world..........

.........over 90% of ontario`s trade is with the usa........yet during the iraq war, there was one protest, after another in toronto..........interestingly, when i saw them up close, most of them were goras........they weren`t too concerned about being sanctioned by the usa.........or losing all their trade..........

........it is not in pakistan`s interest to become an enemy of usa........however, it has never been in pakistan`s interest to be a frontline state either..........i saw this up close during the first afghan war...........what did pakistan gain from it..........drugs, klashnikovs, taliban, osama and millions of refugees whom pakistan cannot take care of.........

........the same is going to happen again..........afghans hate pakistanis.........both the northern alliance and the taliban.........they are eventually going to kick nato out........they always kick out invaders.........then they, along with the tribal areas are going to go after pakistan.............

............us foreign policy has created a whole group of enemies for the usa.........the usa needs to fight them on its own.........pakistan need not get involved......let the usa fight it out in afghanistan........pakistan should assist in controlling the border as well as it can..........that`s all.............

.........the moment the usa launches even one bullet that kills even one convicted murderer in pakistan, pakistan should call it quits..........and withdraw all support..........rest assured, the usa will get the message.........it will not turn into the disaster scenario you have envisioned........

.........the current unlimited support to the usa, where it can simply send a drone into pakistan, bomb a house, kill women and children and innocents and then simply apologize is quite unprecendented........i doubt any other country (india, canada, mexico, or even tiny luxemburg) would allow this!

........this support is more related to musharraf, personally trying to survive than anything else........pakstani leaders have a maximum time in power of five years..........after that they become domestically vulnerable, regardless of how well they have done..........musharraf desparately needs us support, so he is letting the usa literally get away with murder.......

.........i have close friends in the pakistan military who are involved in these operations.........they are livid over the killings of innocents........some have outright refused and i believe are in jail..........

........try to look at this way and you will get your answer...........suppose someone from america (or anywhere else) came to kill your family member or rape them.........suppose they could cut off your electricity and your oil and your bank balance........would you allow them to kill and rape?

apply your answer to a whole country.............

What happened was truly tragic. At the moment, I do not know whether government`s claim is right or not, and pending independent investigation as mentioned in interact #2, I cannot draw any conclusions. Saying this, by the anecdotal evidence, it does seem to be the case where government is trying to deceive general public, and a strong evidence of this cover up is refraining of the journalists to enter that area immediately after the incident.

But one thing is certain; they were killed without trial, while they slept in their rooms. This is a gross violation of human rights and sanctity of human life. If it is done by Americans, then shame on them; if done by Pakistanis, shame on them; if it is done by Americans and being covered up by Pakistanis, then shame on Americans, and double shame on Pakistani establishment.

In 1919 a law was passed by British Raj, which was called Rowlatt Act. This act gave raj the powers to imprison any person without trial, if he is suspected of terrorism in the Raj. Everyone opposed it including the future founders of Pakistan and India. Jinnah resigned in protest from legislature, and Gandhi launched his civil disobedience movement in protest.

Our founding fathers fought for the rights of people, and where the situation of human rights of India and Pakistan stands today? Just look what happened in Bajaur, and just see what is happening in Indian Kashmir. Extra-judicial imprisonment are rampant in both countries (watch human rights watch reports for both countries), yet we feel elated by the growing richness of select urban populace, forgetting that a significant populace of both countries still remain below poverty line, is illiterate, and above all abused by the law and order enforcement community. Top of it, I feel disgusted that how most people from both countries compare their respective ruins of humanity, and criticize the other forgetting that the same shit hole exist in their own backyard.

Love of our own country is great, but I don`t see why it should stop at borders by starting to judge others by the criteria, which we do not want for ourselves.

#21 by bulleya on November 5, 2006 9:11pm PT


the usa, today, is significantly dependent on pakistan.


The US is dependent on Pakistan like a homeowner is dependent on a toilet plunger...while both may be necessary, they are essentially used to clean up toilets...and once that is done, they are usually kept away in their containers..

Re: # 21 & #11 Bulleya

Romair, there is one major omission in your analyis: INDIA. Pakistan`s options viz a viz the US are limited because of Pakistan`s hostile relations with India. The US (and India) know that Pakistan is (and can be) squeezed as long as it maintains hostile relations with both. A fundamentalist leader in Pakistan in the future will simply turn the US openly hostile to Pakistan. It is too late know for Pakistan to `disengage` from Afghanistan. As long as tribal infiltration from NWFP and FATA continues into Afghanistan, Pakistan will be unable to disengage. And by the way, the latest round of pressure on Pakistan is coming not from the US, but from Netherlands-commanded NATO. CIAO

Re: # 21

Romair:

Your analysis is very interesting, you should also comment, can Pakistan be bombed back to stone age or disintegrated by the west? This possibility seems to be driving the current leadership. Now the center of gravity of taliban and islamic terrorism (whatever it means), as defined in the west, is now inside Pakistan and not in Afganistan any longer. Don`t you think therefore, Pakistan is no longer a front line state, in fact it could potentially be containing a buffer area where such elements will be contained.

Recent news that the U.S. is ready to talk to Iran about Iraq situation, does not spell good for Pakistan. If the U.S. and west normalize relations with Iran and Iraq has shia government, the oil balance is no longer in Saudi Arabia. What use Pakistan will be to the west in this situation? If OBL & Co. and terror is contained inside Afganistan and Pakistan, the west is able to isolate oil from terror.

Can Iraqi government and Iranians isolate oil from terror? And the U.S. Iran talks on Iraq are more significant issues. The outcome of these will have more consequences on Pakistan. According to my calculations, Pakistan is done once again. Sooner or later, it will loose its tribal areas, and may even loose NWFP, while Afaginistan may be redrawn to exlude its Pashtun areas. How does Iran take unrest in Balochistan is going to be an issue.

A democratic Iran is going to be a force to reckon in that part of the world. Not Pakistan, not Afganistan. Pakistan`s best hope is to restore power to democratic institutions and let these institutions ensure its integrity. This game is not Kashmir and India, and is beyond the reach of Pakistan military. My discussions with Indians certainly elude to this scenario being played out. The only delay is for the U.S. to recognize Iran as a power in the middle east, which Europe already does.

Anil

Why do you protest?

Don`t you know, Slaves should not protest because this protest means nothing. Its useless & waste of time & energy.

Re: # 19


anil mian,

.......... it worked in `48 - if it hadn`t been for the terrible tribals, the horrible hindoos would have occupied what is left of free kashmir .......... the tribal pathans, because of their limited cranial cavity and religious zeal, are perhaps the most patriotic of all pakistanis ........ if the army was doing what it is paid to do, instead of running the kabbadi association and the cricket board, they would recruit them as bashi-bazouks and have them lead the way to srinagar .......... after all, the ottomans were able to use imbeciles like them to knock some sense into bulgarians and other uppity people ................ but that is just wishful thinking - the way things are going in pakistan, it is more likely that our bashi-bazouk wannabes will restrict themselves to stealing manhole covers, driving trucks, selling heroin and blowing up paki soldiers for entertainment ............

It is tragic what Pakistan and the US have done to the Afghan and Pakistani tribals. They have reduced them to the status of wild animals who can be slaughtered at will.

Contrast that with Mahatma Gandhi, who inspired Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan, a Pushtoon, to become non-violent and lead the Khudai Khitmatgars. If today someone says that the Pathans can be non-violent and work towards social change, everyone will laugh. But Gandhi pulled it off, so much so that almost half of the province voted to be with India. Its their bad luck that they ended up in Pakistan and got royally Paindooed in the name of Islam.

This article is worth a read:

Los Angeles Times Editorial, Nov. 6, 2006

``Despite Pakistan`s claim to have stopped supporting the Taliban after its 2001 ouster, the evidence is now overwhelming that the Pakistani security service — the Inter-Services Intelligence, or ISI — and probably the senior military leadership are tolerating, if not backing, Taliban forces.``

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-ed-afghan06nov06,0,7228548.story?coll=la-opinion-leftrail

ranjeet

``But Gandhi pulled it off``

Actually, Badshah Khan pulled it off...although Gandhi ji certainly provided the inspiration :)

People of the area were not always the religiously inspired ``animals`` that so many outsiders see them as these days. Unbelievable as it may be, it was the great land of Gandhara, of Purushpur, of TakshaShila, and most amazing of all - of Kanishka....

Re: # 30
[...Unbelievable as it may be, it was the great land of Gandhara...]

Interesting... so what happened? how did these people went from great civilization to utter barbarians?... Islam was probably a great factor - but was that all?...

It would be an interesting study to trace such spectacular degeneration of a great land and its people...

There is absolutely no doubt left in my mind anymore that Pakistan is destined to go by the way of Iran through a bloody revolution. I think military dictatorship and corrupt westernized social class has now crossed the point of no return. Now the things are bound to get worst before they get better.

The reason is simple, military jiunta has upped the ante just in case Democrats win the house. The Democrats have started cajoling pak civilian leadership already and it is written on the wall that the days of dictatorship in Pak are numbered, as the powers that be in US have already started looking for a ``chrismatic leader`` in US who would enable them to pull themselves out of Iraq and Afghanistan. Of course military dicatatorship in pak and neocons in us would not let that happen easily. So there will be more carnage to keep Americans tied in both countries.

Re: # 31

The top echelons were killed in a variety of ways. The intellectual life of the society was squeezed by the vaporisation of oldest universities in the world at Taxila. Once the head is off what remains is a quivering body.

This was the precursor to Macaulalisation of that part of the world!

Re: # 31

The top echelons were killed in a variety of ways. The intellectual life of the society was squeezed by the vaporisation of oldest universities in the world at Taxila. Once the head is off what remains is a quivering body.

and they have not been able to replace this loss as yet in any form whatsoever as yet.


This was the precursor to Macaulalisation of that part of the world!

Re: # 32

the cat dreams of offal (chichray)

urstruly,

``Pakistan is destined to go by the way of Iran through a bloody revolution`` ............. fine ! and pigs will fly to heaven on shab-i-miraj .......... who the heck is going to lead this revolution : qazi hussain, maulana fazloo, maulana sami or one of the other mullahs who rule the naswar belt ? .......... in case you didn`t notice, these guys will sell their sister and throw in their mother and pet sheep for a senate seat and a big screen tv ............. so that leaves your pir and murshid hafiz saeed who will probably be killed in a police encounter one of these days .............. and do you think that altaf bahi and his goons will let the mullahs run wild in karachi ?

...... mian ji, wake up and smell the kava - in 2008 BB will be back in the prime minister`s house and nawaz sharif will be sitting in the opposition scheming with president musharraf on how to get rid of pesky pinky ......... the mullahs will be fighting over duty-free land cruisers and daigs of halwa ..................

#27 by hamidm2 on November 6, 2006 6:32am PT


if the army was doing what it is paid to do,


It is doing what it being paid to do...paid to do by the US...

The paki public doesn`t really pay the paki army...the paki army owns everything and gives back to the pure denizens of land of the pure what it considers a fair sum..

Mr. Farooq Hasnat:

In paragraph 5, line 7, you say: December 30. Should it be October 30?

Regards,

number

Re: # 36

arjun mian,

...... you are right ...... the army is the biggest political party, the biggest business and the biggest bunch of fools in pakistan - if they did what they are supposed to do we would have resolved this silly kashmir issue a long time ago and you would be sitting quitely in the corner, licking your wounds and debugging your code instead of bugging us ..........

hamdim2# 38
If the Pakistani army solved the Kashmir issue they would be sitting quitely in a corner.

I am not sure they are the biggest fools in Pakistan.

Regards,

Faruk

Re: # 35

You hope and pray that someone actually does lead the revolution otherwise a preview of what happens when there is no leader was quite revealing last year when protests happened in all large cities in Pakistan and faceless crowds started running amock during the cartoon controversy.

Your assessment of sarkari moulvis is absolutely correct. They belong to the same class that oppresses Pakistan but in a different disguise. Pretty soon their jig is going to be up too cuz as the saying goes ``you can only fool all the people only once``.

In recent years a new form of leadership has emerged in Muslim lands in response to repeated assassionations and systematic corruption by a corrupt westernized ruling class. This is the new face of resistence in 21st century. This leadership is called cellular leadership. It is sort of like cancer that if you eliminate one cancerous cell, there emerge half a dozen more to replace it. No one really knows who the two rebel leaders are in Iraq and Afghnsitan respectively and yet the freedom struggle goes on with a surprising coordination. The movement collectively though proceeds towards its final destination no matter what. Frankly, by any logic I don`t think there is any way in the world to stop that.

I think people are missing the context of the strafing in Bajour. There were no signs of any problem in that area. So, why all of a sudden the Pak army went after that school? I think the matter relates to the recent attempted rocket firing in Islamabad targeting Musharaf. I think the army found some links in that area and went after the Madrassah or the congregation area of the extremist to send a message or perhaps thought that the mastermind of the Islamabad incident was in the school. That is one plausible reason for the Pak army to jeopardize the ongoing negations for the tribal cooperation

The talk of the US involvement actually helps the army as it absolves the army from the responsibility of the attack. One look at the army’s favorite newspaper the daily times shows that it was the Pakistan army that pushed the US involvement line more than any one else did. Dropping hints, talking about drones and intelligence cooperation with the US-all this is coming from the pro-army press in Pakistan and the rest are being suckered into this well orchestrated spin.

In Sindhi, sucker equates to Dhurr. Mullahs and the rightwing nincompoops in Pakistan are truly Dhurr of the Pakistan army.

Why would the US attack the School? The intelligence about some high value target perhaps could have been a motivation for the US. Since there was none, the US did not even try to take credit despite the US elections situation where an attack by the US on terrorists’ targets would have helped the current administration.

So far, whatever has come out of there shows that it was an internal power struggle in Pakistan and the army responded to an attempted attack on Gen. Musharaf.

The situation in the tribal areas does offer an opportunity for Pakistan to influence events in Afghanistan as no matter what happens in the next couple of years, eventually Pakistan will have to take control of the situation Afghanistan. Since the day, Pakistan engineered the Taliban takeover in Kabul; there is no other power in the area or outside of it that can work in Afghanistan without Pakistan’s cooperation.

While the situation in the tribal belt could be advantageous, it has several downsides too. One of them might be the growing influence of the religious parties in the area. That could possibly lead to a showdown at some point of time. The possibility of the tribes in NWFP going against the Pakistan State are zilch but outside influences should never be discounted.

Every passing day leads to a growing vacuum in Afghanistan and creates more opportunities for Pakistan to control the situation in Afghanistan and point the religious fundamentalist to the growing opportunity in Afghanistan rather than looking eastwards.

bulleya,

u.s. actually has attacked its neighbour - mexico rather than canada. in 1916, u.s. took sides in the mexican civil war which made an enemy out of one of the mexican combatants - a certain pancho villa who initially was an ally of the u.s. villa attacked and killed americans in mexico as well as inside the u.s. in response to these attacks, u.s. government sent a force of around 5000 soldiers backed by airplanes inside mexico to eliminate villa who took to the hills much like obl. the u.s. campaign was a disaster. u.s. army ended up fighting with the mexican army which initially had been its ally. the campaign nearly resulted in war with mexico before the mission was aborted due to wwi.

the reason i have recounted this episode is to simply point out that third world countries like mexico and pakistan dont have a lot of options when it comes to dealing with big powers. pakistan cannot get away with providing shelter to people who are fighting and killing americans and indeed other westerners such as in spain and the u.k. also your comparison of canadian situation with pak is completely invalid. its one thing to oppose the war - its another to actually give shelter to the enemies of the u.s. as i wrote in the last post, u.n. resolution 1368 makes it binding on pakistan to provide help to americans. failure to cooperate will result in sanctions which will be of the same nature as the one applied to iraq. according to the u.n, these sanctions resulted in the death of 0.5 mn children in iraq. the same impact would result in the death of 3mn children in pak, in reality though impact on pak will be much worse because pak does not have oil.

you are also mistaken in dismissing the impact of sanctions. to engage in foreign trade, pakistan needs foreign currency. this currency is held with central banks abroad for example u.s. dollars with federal reserve. if sanctions are imposed pakistan`s foreign currency reserves will be frozen as a result of which pakistan will not be able to buy oil, or food or medicine. no economy can function without oil and its precisely for this reason that u.s. govt has something called a strategic petroleum reserve. this reserve will be tapped in case of an oil embargo. unfortunately no such reserve exists in pak.

also pakistan has not backed u.s. in other areas where support from pakistan would be very helpful. pakistan has not sent troops to iraq and it actually voted against the u.n. resolution against iran`s nuclear program. furthermore pak has not recognised israel which would be the safest way to ensure support in the u.s. because both political parties are heavily influenced by the israeli lobby.

bottom line is that its very easy to call for jehad sitting in the west. i wonder what most people here would feel when they saw their own family members suffering as people did and still do in iraq. and all this because a few tribesmen wont do the right thing which is to deny shelter to people who have no qualms about killing innocent civilians in cold blood.

amazing.

Re: # 40

urstruly,

....... we know all about these `cells` and, as you rightly point out, they are like a cancer that seeks to destroy the body that it infects ............ that is why extreme measures have to be taken to make sure that people like khalid sheikh mohammad are eliminated ....... in any case, you are doing the right thing by cheering on your holy warriors from the comfort of your home in michigan instead of joining them in their dark and damp caves - spider webs do not stop daisy cutters ........

#41 by HP on November 6, 2006 10:52am PT

WOW...you really are clutching at imaginary straws...It took you almost 10 days to come up with this spin?

p.s. don`t let this get in the way of your self-delusions, but a bunch of PAF men were picked up for the rocket thing...

Re: # 41 HP
[...creates more opportunities for Pakistan to control the situation in Afghanistan and point the religious fundamentalist to the growing opportunity in Afghanistan rather than looking eastwards...]

Yep - f*** the afgans, all over again...:)

Isn`t this typical of pakis?... instead of trying to eliminate islamic terrorism - they want to just export it somewhere... use it for ``strategic`` purposes... lessons of last five years is already lost on these fools... :)

Sitting comfortably in their perches in the West - they want to push islamic cr@p all over the place.... un-f***ing-believable...

#30 by kaalchakra
“Actually, Badshah Khan pulled it off...although Gandhi ji certainly provided the inspiration :) “


People really missed this post. I wish Kaal sometime get into this and write with little bit more details.

This is true that for a long time Badshah(Bacha) Khan had more support in the tribal areas. He had difficult time working with people outside the core Pushtoon areas in NWFP but that was not the case in the tribal areas. The common element was Pushtoon nationalism but over the years, those links began to weaken as the successive Pakistan governments offered financial benefits to the tribes. That included pretty much free trade and no taxation. As the Pushtoon nationalism waned, other political element stepped in. The war in Afghanistan became a Pushtoon war and since religious element controlled that war, the area turned more towards religion. However, I still believe that the Taliban support in the area is ethnically motivated and religion is just the ideological thread in the whole thing. Badshah Khan’s ideological source was his secularism even though he was fully cognizant of the religion pull in the area.

“People of the area were not always the religiously inspired ``animals`` that so many outsiders see them as these days. Unbelievable as it may be, it was the great land of Gandhara, of Purushpur, of TakshaShila, and most amazing of all - of Kanishka....”

That is not true! All the seats of ancient cultures that you mentioned were in essence dominated by the religions of those eras. It would be hard to just ignore the reality and call those seats some places that promoted secularism or tolerance. So the whole thing is still the extension of the same theme. Since there has never been any industrial progress in these areas, the dogma still dominates.

I think the time has now come to re-organize the whole area based on the ancient boundaries. That is why I promote annexation of the Eastern Afghanistan and the Irani Balochistan by Pakistan. They are rightfully ours. On the Eastern side, I think the current Indian Punjab should be part of Pakistan and the first step to accomplish that is for Pakistan to open Pakistani borders for Sikhs. They should be able to visit Pakistan and Punjab without passport or visa and we should just accept the Sikh beard as symbolic Passport.

We may see dropping of IQ levels initially but the Punjabi IQ levels are not enviable anyway!

#45 by mohar11 on November 6, 2006 12:03pm PT


Remember Condi Rice saying some cr@p about the chinese notation for crisis and opportunity were the same..apparently the urdu notation for getting bombed by a foreign power and being utterly unable to do anything about it and opportunity are the same..

faisaluno #42: ........no one is talking about providing shelter to anyone.........all i am saying is that no one should be allowed to indiscriminately kill a citizen of pakistan, from the air or ground.........and then simply apologize afterwards.........there is no un resolution that allows that........if you know of one, please highlight it........there is a difference between supporting someone, and letting them kill your citizens.........even hr watch has objected to such killings.........the pakistani journalist who reported the previous attack was done by a usa predator, disappeared for three months, and was then found dead.......

..........you need to simply ask yourself the following question:...........would the usa bomb an apartment complex in michigan, if it had some intelligence that mullah umar was going to visit it?..........i highly doubt it............would it, after the bombing, be able to simply get away with an apology.........

...........the president of pakistan needs to do what the majority of pakistanis want him to do.........after all he is the president of pakistan..........if he wants to do what the majority of americans want him to do, then he should have carried out his coup there..........

.........pakistan became a frontline state earlier, and one can see the result of that incorrect decision...........let the usa fight its own wars..........it has created far too many enemies for itself..............no point in pakistan creating an equal amount of enemies...........

Urstruly:
Musharraf was following Mohammad by destroying the mosque of munafiqs. So, i think you should chill out a bit. Your tax dollars for hell-fire missile might have up your credit ratings in Heavens for facilitating sunnah e rasool.


hamidm:
the day these tribals/talibans will take over the areas of nwfp and northpunjab on their way to srinagar - i think you would still be cheering for your pathetic free-kashmir wet dreams.

Re: # 49

See, that is what I am arguing about; the war has crossed the moral borders already so that the life of the school children of the ``other`` has no value or meaning and you people still think that cats are dreaming chichray.

Re: # 48

The basic premis of your contention is wrong. Musharaf is NOT the President of Pakistan. He is a rogue general who was fired by an elected PM and he came into power by toppling an elected government. This criminal is installed on us by Washington and supported by a corrupt westernized class that oppresses Pakistan. He is doing exactly what he was installed to do.

#48 by bulleya on November 6, 2006 1:12pm PT


no one should be allowed to indiscriminately kill a citizen of pakistan, from the air or ground.........and then simply apologize afterwards


Umm..the US government hasn`t apologized..


reported the previous attack was done by a usa predator, disappeared for three months, and was then found dead.......


And there were reports about his family blaming the intel agencies..paki intel agencies..


..........you need to simply ask yourself the following question:...........would the usa bomb an apartment complex in michigan


Pakistan ain`t michigan..you have no choice or say in the matter..


...........the president of pakistan needs to do what the majority of pakistanis want him to do.........after all he is the president of pakistan.


yeah...elected with 98% in the referendum...

but then again, what the majority of Pakistanis want means squat..This is a direct result of your government encouraging islamic fundamentalism as a tool of the state..

hamidm2 # 38,

Hello! Hope you are doing fine.
``if they did what they are supposed to do``
I think they are doing what they are supposed to do, which is decided by outsiders.

``silly kashmir issue``
Either way, the LN Mittals and the Tatas and the Azim Premji would have continued to do what they wanted to whether kashmir was with india or not. The question is would pakistan have been different, or is kashmir just an excuse.

Adios

anil #25: .........you have asked too many difficult questions for me to answer.......my point was simply that pakistan should not allow the usa to kill its citizens........and that pakistan needs to stay out of us wars......it has gained nothing from being the frontline state for a country with which it has an 11 hour time difference........

..........as for the middle east.......i agree with you that iran is (potentially) a power.......i also agree that it is in the usa`s interests to have a good relationship with it........however, us middle east policy is heavily influenced by israel........and i don`t see how israel can tolerate a nuclear iran, with oil and influence in the middle east...........moreso the arab states (specifically sunni ones) will not tolerate a powerful iran.........

........so the only other course for the usa is to do what it is currently doing.......have excellent relations with saudi monarchy to get oil.........and have good relations with pakstan to ensure pipeline access to central asia..........while simultaneously isolating iran to appease isreal........and simultaneously supporting dictatorships of some sort in countries that border israel (egypt, jordan etc.)..........

...........as for pakistan, it should build a fence at the afghan border and isolate itself from afghanistan.........it should have excellent relations with iran as the two countries have a lot in common.........it should also have excellent relations with sri lanka and bangladesh........it should offer india free trade and open borders, with the pre-condition that india give kashmiris self-determination...........and most of all it should try to stay away from the foreign policy of a country, which is half way around the world.........

Re: # 49 raw

the old kashmir ghost is back and for some reason - has caste a spell over hamidm gopinath, of all people... he [and couple of other pakis] are back to chanting ``kashmir, kashmir``...

Why dp Pakis always move in circles?... vicious circles with no exit points... I mean - after daisy-cutter, hellfires and what not - you would think pakis have found an exit point from the stranglehold of vicious bedouin philosophy - but apparently not... HP is advocating ``controlling`` afaganistan by exporting islamic hordes... hamidm is advocating using mullahs in kashmir to take care of hinuds...

Basically - we back to square one.... millions of dollars ammunitions was burnt over these guys but all in vain... no lesson was ever learnt... :)

Re: # 46 HP
[...That is why I promote annexation of the Eastern Afghanistan and the Irani Balochistan by Pakistan. They are rightfully ours...]

sure, you got it... do you want fries with that... :)

pakis and your ever-expanding delusions... everything is ``rightfully`` yours ... I mean - you can`t even keep what you have right now[or got in 1947] and then you want eastern afgan, and balochi iran and even indian punjab...... :)

I mean - what are you going to with these l0sers...:)

``That is why I promote annexation of the Eastern Afghanistan and the Irani Balochistan by Pakistan. They are rightfully ours``

LOL. This sounds like a spiel making its way out of saddam`s famous information minister...

Re: # 57 raw

Yep - HP has got Baghdad Bob up his a88... LOL.

Urstruly:
You should`ve thanked me for my very highly extraordinary synthesis out of hellfires to heaven booty for your tax money. Instead, you are whining. Tsk. Look at it this way. Allah mian ocassionally also likes to kill school going children by an earthquake here and an aids epidemic there.
Infidels just cant compete being bloodsucking waste of human life that they are plus they are eternally damned already - you bet they love to plan and bomb little children in cold blood.

Re: # 59

And I presume you are a Pakistani; which proves that an amoral corrupt class does exist that oppresses Pakistan even if it has to be done through killing school children.

Re: # 27

Hamidm Sahib:

You might like check out 1948 scenario again. Pakistan Army`s British Chief, refused to take orders from the Commander-in-Chief, Jinnah once what is now Pakistan Kashmir was captured; till then Indian Commander-in-Chief and Governor General Mountbetton would not order Indian Army to do anything.

Together there is some truth that emotions have missed.

The best is for you to help empower girls in that area through education right now there is NATO militia to lend support. Over a generation may yield some sensible results.

Anil

Anil

#54 by bulleya on November 6, 2006 1:47pm PT


my point was simply that pakistan should not allow the usa to kill its citizens........and that pakistan needs to stay out of us wars



Capt: It`s not like mushy has a choice(or the paki army has the intestinal fortitude) to resist American demands..cue in bomb you back to the stone age threat from Armitage..


To be fair: Mushy doesn`t have a choice..he knows most Pakis dream of being great islamic fighters but the thought of an American bomb dropping on the Lahore dunkin donuts is enough to make them weak in the knees and bend over..

Re: # 54

Romair:

One thing good about Isarel is that its people are quite practical. Remember Jewish Arab cooperation in Spain.

Tolerating Iran, when its president on 60 minutes confirmed the question that it has 50,000 suicide bombers ready, that answered many many more questions than Nuclear weapon can. When Clinton made positive comments, a few years, ago after Iranian elections, yet more questions were answered. When Sistani (I believe it was him), gave a pro-democracy speech at OIC conference in Malaysia, many things were answered.

No doubt that Pakistan`s role is in what you have described, but where is the role for its military to stay in power? To settle this, there may be an internal struggle in Pakistan. If Iran gains its rightful positioin it will be at Pakistan`s cost. More muslims will listen to Iranians than Pakistani military. So what will military do to justify staying in power?

Anil

HP # 46

Thanks for another knowledgeable comment. Indeed, Bacha Khan performed a miracle in bringing people`s religion fully on board without letting it dominate collective secularism. Since that kind of nationalism-based secularism is what Indians would like to achieve one day, except that this will be nationalism on a far larger scale - Badshah Khan`s name should never be forgotten in India.

Did hamidm`s ``bashi bazouks`` ever amount to anything other than manhole-cover thievers and truck drivers? And was their leadership ever different from the one epitomized by Mullah Omar? Consider the case of Kanishka - among the best known names in ancient Indian history.

Kanishka`s vast empire stretched from amu darya in in Central Asia, to Afghanistan, all of today`s Pakistan, reaching all the way to Patna, Bihar in the east, including Kashmir in the north and upto Gujrat in the South.

Yet he is far more famous for his religious/spiritual heritage than for his impressive imperial achievements. His capital Purushpur (modern Peshawar) was a center of intense religious debates and disagreements. So when he got interested in Buddhism, he invited Buddhist scholars from all over to Kashmir so they could hammer out some agreement. After sitting through (some of) those probably Chowk-like debates in a Great Council, the king declared all 12 (or more?) traditions to be equally valid!

We learn from chinese travellers that the king respected religions other than his own. His official coins carry images of not only the Buddha, but also of Hindu, Zorastrian, and Greek gods and religious figures. (That might well be a unique achievement in the history of man - certainly a rare feat).

All that seems to suggest a time and a people very different from the one with Buddha-destroying Taliban mindset.

Re: # 64 kaal to HP
[...Thanks for another knowledgeable comment..]

Yeah - that and some Baghdad Bob style comedy... :)

I find it hard to believe your statement , ``The attack at Khar came as a surprise and as a tragic incident, for the people of Pakistan. The residents of Bajaur were shocked as they were gearing up for a North Waziristan type peace agreement. The signing ceremony was to take place after few hours....``

When did the rulers of Pakistan speak truth directly to the people of Pakistan? The
Pak-politicians with loathsome qualifications and the Men in Khaki brought Pakistan to the current state of misery and mess. Look at the words of Mr. Kasuri ``..who In the first week of October, Foreign Minister Kasuri was reported to have said that Pakistan has made clear (to the U.S.) that it would not kill its own people in the tribal areas...``

But nodding politicians can always have someone else do the dirty job .

In a way Pakistan military strike would have made a botched job if they had attacked the Madrassa . Atleast military strike by a US drone was a surgical , pin point precision strike that took the lives of only 80 deaths. Is it not better ?

One should blame the military rulers for this boo-boo so that they can put the blame on Yankees.
Kamath

anil #63: ``but where is the role for its military to stay in power? To settle this, there may be an internal struggle in Pakistan. If Iran gains its rightful positioin it will be at Pakistan`s cost. More muslims will listen to Iranians than Pakistani military. So what will military do to justify staying in power?``

...........i am not sure what will happen to the pakistan military........... but one thing i can say with certainity, it will not be good........pakistan military is one a doomsday run, for itself and for pakistan..........it is alienating everyone in pakistan, though usa is in love with it..........the only thing keeping musharraf in power now is that people are even more fed-up with benazir and nawaz..........

........there will definitely be a struggle in pakistan........i think the next ten years will decide it........i discussed this with a very senior leader of ppp and he agreed.........

........there is actually quite a bit of truth to what urstruly is saying.........there is a possibility that pakistan will have an iran type revolution........i say this quite seriously........people are fed-up with the military.......they are fed up with the secular feudal and tribal leaders of the two main parties.........at a national level, who else is left, other than the mma.........

........by people here, i mean the normal pakistani........not the .1% chowk crowd........

.......all of this despite the fact that pakistanis do not organically support mma type parties (but in that sense, i don`t think iranis did either).........in the next election, either musharraf is going to manipulate results to keep himself and his party in power.......or either of benazir or nawaz will come in.........if they screw up again, then i think maulvis will be in power, through a democratic process..........

.........this is nothing unique and is happening all over the muslim world......iran, iraq, algeria, egypt, saudi arabia, lebanon, palestine, even turkey.........islamically oriented political parties are the most popular in almost all democratically based processes, at the moment, in the muslim world...........these should not be confused with al-qaeda etc.........these are actual genuine political parties............

...........the person who fits the profile of someone from these parties would be urstruly - educated, knowledge of the west, with islamically (his version) oriented revolutionary ideas.....thogh not a supporter of al-qaeda........much like the people who brought khoemini in power in iran.........

.........the more usa bombs iraq, palestine and lebanon (through israel), afghanistan and tribal areas (through pakistan), the more popular such parties will become...............

........as for iran gaining something at pakistan`s expense in the islamic world, i don`t think pakistan should worry too much about that......it has bigger problems to worry about........the natural leaders of the islamic world are one of the following - iran, egypt, pakistan, turkey, indonesia, saudi arabia......whichever one of these gets its act together first, is going to take that position..........

this is how iran treats run of the mill terrorists. just imagine its reaction if 800+ iranian soldiers were killed by a group of iranian renegades. no wonder iranians conquered the world while the best people in our part of the world could do was to recite poetry:

www.thenews.com.pk

Iran hangs six Jondullah men in public

TEHRAN: Iran has publicly hanged in Zahedan six members of a ``terrorist`` group convicted of abducting European tourists and armed robbery, a press report said on Monday.

The men, identified only as Behzad N, Mohammad-Amin H, Abdollah Sh, Mohsen S, Majid K, and Nader K were all members of a ``terrorist group led by Abdolmalek (Rigi)``, the Ayande-No daily said.

The men had reportedly kidnapped Dutch, German, and Irish tourists travelling through Iran and also set a police car on fire, killing four people, the report said. The militant group, Jondullah, headed by Rigi, has been held responsible for murdering 22 people in March in the Sistan-Baluchestan province and another 12 on a road in southern Kerman province in May.

Meanwhile, two men have been hanged in public in the southeastern town of Iranshahr convicted of drug trafficking and killing one of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad`s bodyguards, the ISNA agency reported on Monday. Najibollah Gh was hanged for smuggling heroin and Mohammad A was executed for killing the bodyguard.

as far as any revolutions are concerned, i would like to wish good luck to punjabis because thats the only province vulnerable to it. certainly wont happen in sind because mullahs have no support there. politics in urban sind is controlled by mqm which is probably the most popular secular party in the islamic world and is very close to americans. rural sind is dominated by ppp which is also close to americans. frontier already is controlled by jui and islamabd has already reached an agreement with jui on post 2007 set up which will entail jui alone or within mma returning back to power. this pretty much leaves punjab on its own. my sense is that pml-q has done a good job in building a vote bank. however if anyone has information any islamic messiah waiting in the wings i would like to find out about him.

real wildcard in the next election is sind and baluchistan assembly. in sind pml is trying to eat into ppp vote bank and given that ppp has been out of power for nearly 10 years and thus unable to offer perks of power, i think pml`s task wont be as difficult as it seems. as far as baluchistan is concerned, again jui will play a big role along with baluchis associated with the govt.

Re: # 67

Ramair:

Your point on Islamic revolution is well taken.

Iran was a fertile ground after years of bungling by the Shah, above all it had oil reserve, a commodity west prizes the most. Task of Pakistani leadership strating 60 years later, and accepting 10 more years of uncertainty will require a lot to have its constituents remain committed to Pakistan Dream, which no one has as yet articulated, and hence requires talented future leaders like Yasser / Aisha to find it in Jinnah`s dream.

Anil

Pakistan high on corruption list

BERLIN: A Transparency International survey of 163 countries based on perceived levels of corruption saw Pakistan slip down two places compared to its ranking of 145 last year, suggesting a rise in corruption.

According to the survey, Haiti, Myanmar and Iraq were perceived as the most corrupt countries in the world while Finland was seen as the cleanest.

Transparency International (TI) said in its annual Corruption Perceptions Index that some of the world’s poorest nations were also the most sleaze-ridden, undermining international development efforts. Pakistan’s neighbours India, Iran and China were ranked as 74, 106 and 71 on the list of 163 countries.

So why did Paki army claim credit? Letting the US take credit would expose them for they really are: pussies who can`t defend Paki citizens...

Taking credit for the bombing makes them feel like pussies who got 800 soldiers killed but who managed to show some force...

VIEW: Unanswered questions on Bajaur — Rasul Bakhsh Rais

The killing of 82 Pakistanis in a religious seminary in Bajaur agency is a tragedy considering that the government despite its claim of having taken out militants has not been able to prove it yet. Until now, therefore, it is the government’s word against that of local residents, and evidence points to the veracity of the latter’s version than the government’s.

For many others who might know the history and people of this region on our political periphery, it is sad to reflect how our state and the present government have gradually pushed the tribesmen into taking up arms.

Since we tend to overlook or forget lessons of history, let me bring to your notice the role Khan of Bajaur and his people played in countering the intrigues, military incursions and intervention of the Afghan government in September 1961. S. Fida Yunis, one of the most prominent writers and historians, who has very methodically collected and published about the border regions and Afghanistan, narrates the events of Afghanistan’s incursions into Dir and Bajaur in support of ‘Pashtunistan’.

Sardar Daoud, then-prime minister of Afghanistan had been fixated on internationalising the Pashtunistan issue by showing to the great powers and to the UN that peoples of the tribal agencies wanted, and were struggling for, an independent Pashtunistan. To make his claims credible, he raised a tribal lashkar and mobilised large number of troops to Asmar and Chigha Sarai on the other side of the Bajaur agency to stir up trouble for Pakistan. He also sent thousands of Afghan troops disguised as local civilians and gave cash and weapons to the Khan of Jandol and Nawab of Dir who supported the Afghan moves.

A major encounter took place on September 23-24 between the Afghan lashkar and the local tribesmen led by Khan of Khar. The people of Bajaur inflicted a humiliating defeat on the Afghan lashkar, forcing it to retreat. The tribesmen also captured a good number of Afghan troops and handed them over to the Pakistan government. Interestingly, Safi and Mohmand tribes on the Afghan side of the border also fought against their own troops to support the people of Bajaur and their choice for Pakistan. That was the end of Afghanistan’s military option for securing an independent ‘Pashtunistan’.

Now, it is exactly in the same region that some mysterious force has struck the local people with missiles, flattening the seminary and destroying the lives of its teachers and students. The tragedy has left most Pakistanis in shock and disbelief. They wonder why the government would resort to such a method when it has other alternative ways and means of dealing with the militants; and when it changed tactics in Waziristan by signing a treaty with the estranged tribes, and was about to repeat the same in Bajaur in few days time. This is why the official claim that our forces have undertaken this heinous operation doesn’t find any takers in the serious circles of the country. The general perception within the country is that the US forces operating in Afghanistan have fired the missile with or without the concurrence of the Pakistan government. It is a repeat of a similar attack at Damadola village last year, using the same strategy, the same weapon platform and means of delivery.

Why then is the government taking responsibility for such a cruel attack against its own people? Politically it would be less damaging to take the blame than to acknowledge that it has left the area undefended, and that it cannot do anything against NATO and American forces. It is true that Pakistan doesn’t have the capacity to take on coalition forces operating in Afghanistan. We have taken a pragmatic course since 9/11 reversed our old Afghan policy and have, some would argue, rather too faithfully supported the US and coalition forces to defeat the Taliban for securing and stabilizing Afghanistan.

If it is true that American forces have attacked the seminary, which is increasingly becoming crystal clear, then what could be their reason for launching such a brutal act and one that would be politically embarrassing for the government of Pakistan? There are two possible explanations. First, our government has failed to sell the change in its policy of reconciliation with the militants in Waziristan. Many American commentators and policymakers have shown reservations about this policy and have been sceptical about the efficacy of peace accord with the tribal leaders. Rather, they see in it another u-turn, which they believe amounts to surrendering the border regions to the Pakistani tribal Taliban. Second, there is apparently a distrust of Pakistan’s policy and its long-term intentions about Afghanistan, particularly, the Pashtun-dominated regions. The Afghan and American leaders have repeatedly expressed this distrust in telling Pakistan openly and behind the scenes to do more to stop cross-border movement of Taliban fighters. Occasional praise for Pakistan’s pivotal role in defeating the Taliban and the acknowledgement of continual support to the coalition forces or the fact that we have maintained the largest concentration of forces in history along the Afghan border have failed to convince the coalition partners about the sincerity and seriousness of our efforts.

The missile strike was just a reminder that the coalition forces would use such force in hot pursuit of the Taliban and against groups and individuals in the tribal belt who are suspected of giving sanctuary to the Taliban or sending any support to them across the border.

Denying that American or NATO forces launched the missile attack may not give any political respite to the government. Nor will the self-denigrating confession that our forces have done it. In either case, it is a failure of our policy towards Afghanistan, and more importantly towards the peoples of our western borderlands. It might be after counting too many young Americans dead and hundreds of billions of dollars wasted that American government and its neo-conservative strategists realise the futility of war as the only means of restoring peace, stability and unity of divided and fractious societies.

Pakistan took the right step in seeking reconciliation with the tribes in Waziristan with the objective of isolating the militants. It should do the same in Bajaur as quickly as it can. Americans will sooner than later also realise that massacres, indiscriminate bombings, tortures and confinement of suspects in secret prisons would remove it further from its avowed goal of state and nation-building in Afghanistan and Iraq.

The author is a professor of Political Science at the Lahore University of Management Sciences

so who will take credit for this? and when will indian army finally defend its citizens? oh sorry its rather busy:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/336809.cms

GUWAHATI: The Assam government on Monday beefed up security after two powerful overnight explosions rocked Guwahati`s main business centre, killing 11 people and wounding 40, triggering fear and panic all around.

http://in.today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-11-04T204740Z_01_NOOTR_RTRJONC_0_India-274963-1.xml&archived=False

SRINAGAR (Reuters) - At least 100 Indian soldiers are committing suicide every year and are mainly those fighting insurgents in Kashmir and the northeastern states, according to India`s army chief.

Dozens of soldiers, including officers, have also been killed by their colleagues in Kashmir. Early this week a soldier shot dead an officer at an army camp in Srinagar in the fourth such incident in little more than a week.

pakistanis may be turning against mush. some indians are however standing by him. imagine citizens of india defending the indian killer in chief:

http://in.rediff.com/news/2006/oct/25inter.htm

`Many Kashmiris are positive about Pakistan`s role`

K Alan Kronstadt is the point man for South Asia in the Congressional Research Service, the United States Congress` research arm which is often called the legislative branch`s own think tank.

Last month he traveled to Kashmir on what he described as a `strictly fact-finding mission.`

...Was there anything else that really surprised you, helped calm your fears?

Another thing that surprised me on the ground there was how positive a view many people had of Pakistan`s role, and how President Musharraf`s role was not viewed with the negativity I had expected.

Many, many people in Kashmir were actually very positive about the role that Pakistan is playing and used the word flexibility in talking about Musharraf`s role. The word came up again and again that he, more than any other Pakistani leader, had (exhibited flexibility).

...Of course, we did talk to security people in Kashmir, and they were very clear that terrorists came across with the assistance of some elements in Pakistan. So they weren`t optimistic or positive about Pakistan`s role. But many of the people on the ground -- who I didn`t get a chance to talk to when I was