Are Artists Really Mad?

Before anyone defines `mad` they must ask what is `normal`.

And if one REALLY, deeply, examines what one assumes to be `normal` i.e a normal life, one cannot escape this conclusion that its these normal that are truly mad.

I thought that the creative and insane people were alike only in as much as both of them were abnormal - different from the ``normal`` generality of the population - but they were not quite the same. Their abnormailities were of different genre.
John Nash, nobel laureate, had done his monumental creative work before he suffered from schizophrenia. Once he became schizophrenic, he didn`t (couldn`t?) do anything creative. In this sense, Nash, the normal being, was creative and Nash, the schizophrnic being, was not.
``All poets are mad`` is an extreme statement lacking empirical evidence. I can let it pass if it is stated only figuratively. Were Ghalib, Iqbal, and Faiz actually mad? If they were, we need to define madness, insanity, and creativity differently than what is commonly understood.
There is a difference between creativity and insanity and that difference howsoever small is all important. The article is thought provoking and Dr. Sohail needs to be commended for bringing the topical theme out in the open.
Mohammad Gill

William Styron died recently, thought that might be of interest.


I tend to agree with chalta and abskii; the human condition is inherently wired for all kinds of madnesses, just as it is creativity-and yet not everyone develops their artistic ability nor do they seek diagnosis.

I also disagree that creativity is linked with addiction any more than it is linked with diabetes, or hypertension, etc. These are constructs we use to mystify the very mundane and laborious process of making art.

Re: # 17
dear HD....I enjoyed your subltle message....why be normal? and smiled,,,...sohail

Re: # 18 Possibly the ability for abstract thought is why Nash experienced his schizophrenia in such a way, allowed the flight of ideas. The schizophrenics I know can express the most fantastical thoughts at times - and all of them are quite intelligent - but their schizophrenia, like is for many, is heartbreakingly debilitating.

It is worth noting also: about 1 in 4 people will need psychiatric help at some point in their lives....take a look around your office or family/friends (but be careful or, people will start to look at you in that way too)

And can we really define creativity any more than we can `normalness`??

Creativity in itself has nothing to do with madness. But creativity is a hard task for those who are already psychologically weak. A creative mind actually produces new mental contents that need to be properly organized. Those creative persons who are systemetic and logical, cannot become mad ... because they can systemetically arrange all the newly created mental contents in mind in such way that all the mind-set is always kept in internal harmony. And to maintain internal harmoney sometimes requires great psychological courage also ... especially if deep rooted beliefs are disturbed by the newly generated mental contents.

Thanks!

Is creativity the ability to `think differently`, `laterally` and all that?

Before we get to that, we must answer `what is thinking`?

Some thought is simply recollection of memory. Playing it back exactly.

Other thought is playing back memory with `modifications`.
For example if my boss yelled at me today and I listened petrified, later when I recollect that scene I will imagine answering him back, suitably defending myself. 90% reality, 10% fancy.
Another example in this category would be a young man/woman having romantic thoughts about someone they know, which will be 90% fancy, 10% reality
:)

`Work thoughts` are when we`re given a problem to solve and the mind churns through acquired knowledge in memory to find a solution. Either a direct solution or a solution using combination/permutation of memory items.

Is this last item so-called `creativity`?

Re: # 24
Dear HD...thanks for your interest in the subject and article...

In my opinion

Memory.....has three parts....Registration....Retention.......Recall

you are right if the incidence is emotionally charged the recall might be modified.

Creative thinking is non-traditional thinking that leads to giving birth to a creative

product...poem, play, painting or a scientific discovery.

If the poet recalls the beautiful face of the charming lady he saw and composes a

wonderful ghazal...we will call it creative otherwise just a fantasy....smiles...sohail

>>>Creative thinking is non-traditional thinking that leads to giving birth to a creative product

You`re defining the item in terms of itself. `A metal is a metallic substance`.
Standalone definitions are hard granted :)

It seems to me that ALL thinking is memory linked. Memory being always old (stored images from the past) there can be no `creative` thinking, only modifications/rearrangements of the past.

IOW, we mistakenly imagine a link between creativity and thinking.

Re: # 26
Dear HD....can you share how do you feel creativity changes when the medium changes. A

poet creates a poem but a photographer just takes a picture and a scientist spends twenty

years to discover something that even surprises him...

I am fascinated with the complexity of the process as well as the mysteries of the

personality. sincerely sohail

Dear khalid sohail
If the artist is not a Mad,then is not a real artist cos the art is so big and the Life is very short.
Ahad

Re: # 28
Dear Ahad....I agree with you that creative personalities and artists have an imagination

larger than life. But that imagination has to translate into a disciplined work of art.

Unfortunately mental illness can hinder it and they might not be able to put on paper what

they have in mind. I worked with artists in psychiatric hospitals who were so frustrated with

their inability to share their talent with their dear ones and needed professional help.

sincerely sohail

DrSohail, yes psychology is infinitely interesting and really I envy you your field, not your job though.
Listening to nuts and semi-nuts rant for hours, smiling patiently, can reduce tough people to putty. A psychotherapist friend of mine says punishing physical games are the only way he theraputes himself after a days work.

But coming to the issue - creativity, looks like you didnt quite catch my line. Thought can never be creative because its always from the past. If you did we could communicate.

Let me quote from a cartoon book (pearls before swine - stephan pastis). My daughters book. Here`s the introduction.

---

The question I get the most from Pearls readers is - where do you get your ideas.

And the truth is I dont know.

What I do know is that most of the better ones seems to quite literally pop into my head, with the dialogue already written. Its an unbelievable feeling when thats hapenning. Its like all you need do is keep the pen moving.
The converse is also true. When theres nothing, theres nothing.

While the thought process remains a mystery, I have learned that there are certain circumstances that seem to be conducive to creativity than others. For me, the key is total isolation, loud music and coffee.

To make matters even stranger, I periodically go to my bookshelf and read the same sections of the same books over and over.

By the second hour of this, ideas will usually start coming and I`ll lie on the floor and write them all down in a spiral notebook. After about 8 hours of this I usually have a weeks worth of strips.

Re: # 30
Dear HD....your psychotherapist friend must have very different practice than mine. I see the most fascinating human beings, artists, writers and health care professionals and i feel as energetic at the end of the day as in the beginning.
As far as creativity is concerned I am still not clear about your association of thinking with memory. I think memory might or might not play a major role in creativity.
Let me share an example and then you give me your opinion
Two doctor friends worked in a sanitorium. Let us call them Dr A and Dr B
Both were incharge of a ward of 20 patients suffering from TB
One day Dr A made an observation that all his patients are depressed while Dr B`s patients are happy palying cards.
He asked DrB why are your patients so happy?
DrB asked....what do you treat your patients with?
Dr A said...Streptomycine
Dr B said I give them Streptomycine but I also give them Isoniazid
When Dr A stareted giving his patients Isoniazid alongside they felt better.
Isoniazid was the beginning of discovery of antidepressants.
How do you think memory played a role in this creativity....scientific discovery?
sincerely sohail

DrSohail, your example is good. This is what I meant earlier by permutation and combination of current knowledge.

Take all the chemicals in this world. Try each one singly, then in all possible combinations. Note the results. Pick out the best one. Is this creativity?
If it is, then a computer is far more creative than any human.

A computer can work out all possible combinations in a chess game and beat Kasparov.
Would you call that creativity?