The Great Wrong

#100 vsgopal2000

Yaar, the ``cartoon`` was no big deal.

I (1) used PowerPoint clip-art, (2) did some resizing of an image, one hoizontal flip, (3) typed a bit of text and (4) saved the slide as a JPG file on a free website.

The whole thing took no more than 5-10 minutes.

Re: # 98 by zeemax on December 6, 2006 4:27am PT

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It is often said that a picture is worth a thousand words, but I say a picture is worth a thousand `bakwas`.

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See how anarchists run away when presented by facts. Yes you anarchists beat Punjab to get Sindh.

Then beat the crap out of Sindh and make Muhajaristan.

Re: # 81
Dear Beej,
Here I am at your throat again?!

This is only to congratulate you for the marvellous pictorial illustration. I can say as a cartoonist (a hobby with me, an ex-bureaucrat, and you can see my anti-bureaucracy cartoons if you google my name) that it is fantastic. May I know the technicality behind how you composed it?

Regards
-V.S.Gopalakrishnan, Mumbai

Re: # 85
Hello ally,
Here you sound reasonable and charming.

My plea is this. You Pakistanis have got to live in harmony with multiple languages even if you may not understand the language of a different provincial. In India, we have many more provincial languages and nobody is now talking about division of India. Regional jealosies are natural like human nature. In one single family, brothers get jealous of each other. Neighbours in a colony get jealous depending upon how rich a household is. Yet, the watchword in communal existence is ``harmony``, which implies tolerance, understanding and goodwill.

The main grouse of the author seems to arise from the fact that the Punjabis are preponderent in number in the nation`s population. No wonder they make up for more numbers in the Army and bureaucracy. The case for breaking Punjab has not been very well supported.
--V.S.Gopalakrishnan, Mumbai, India

It is often said that a picture is worth a thousand words, but I say a picture is worth a thousand `bakwas`.

Look at the following charts. These are from the last household incomes survey held in 2001/02.


This reveals that Urban income in Punjab is lowest amongst all provinces, while Rural income is same as Sind while a lot lower than others.

Now look at the following Household Tax data:

Here you see urban Punjab households pay the highest taxes even though its household incomes are lowest; while even rural Punjab pays a lot more than anyone else except NWFP, which is probably because of all those Khans living outside Peshawar. Rural Baluchistan pays the lowest even though its rural income is the highest amongst all provinces (because of Sardari blackmail etc).

Another significant thing these charts display is that the income disparity between Urban/Rural is the highest in Sind.

I hope this is enough to show some people here the mirror. It is not a question of `Punjabi kha gaya`, but rather `Punjabi ko sub mil kar kha rahein hein!`.

Re: # 95 hasan says

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the ratio of poverty, demography, area, backwardness and revenue collection efforts of provinces for one.

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Instead of launching commie-leftie ethnic tirade, why don`t you suggest something here O! Sindhi?

1. What should be the ratio of NFC awards?
2. More importantly when Sindh gets the money, what should be the share of Sindh Urban vs. rural?

It is pathetic that Karachi has all the shiny buildings, while Jackobabad burns in the hell of poverty and sickness.

And quit jumping with joy over anti-Punjabi stuff in Quetta etc. Ask your Bihari brethren why they are rotting in BDesh? Mohajirs should be the last one playing ethnic cards. God forbid if you got kicked out of Sindh, there is no place to go for you guys.

May be Santani will welcome all Mohajirs back in the UP. His only condition! Revert back to the religion of your ancestors! i.e. Shudras.


p.s I can call you Bihari Lallu, but I won`t. Bihari is a bigger curse word when it comes to ethnicities. So quit capitalizing one ethnicity over the other.

and by the way it is not Karachi but Sindh that produces 65% revenue. Giving a stupid example of Tandho alh yaar might win you some debates in high school but I imagine you are a little older than that..

Re: # 94
you are talking like a true Punjabi.
First of all
``Amen brother! Population should not be the sole criteria. What else would you suggest?``

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the ratio of poverty, demography, area, backwardness and revenue collection efforts of provinces for one.

Apart of that, the non-tax money of the federal government has been distributed disproportionately among the provinces historically; foreign loans and development allocations were also not made on the bases of equality and fair play. (Dr. Qaiser Bengali).

Sindh’s share in taxes

Direct Taxes 67.75%
In come Tax 86.40
Wealth Tax 63.21
Capital gain Tax 32.60
Workers Welfare Fund 45.53

Indirect Taxes 68.32%
Customs 83.75%
Sales Tax 62.10
Federal Excise duty 39.40
(Source: Planning and Development Department GOS)

Sindh’s share in natural Resources % of total in Pakistan

Gas 48%
Electricity 39%
Petrol 62%
Coal 31%

Share given to provinces from the Federal Divisible Pool
1981 1988
Punjab 57.88 57.38
Sindh 23.28 23.72
NWFP 13.54 13.82
Balochistan 5.30 5.07

Now only a Punjabi will call it fair.
Keep in mind Mr. Taikonaut, I am not here to call Punjabis names. I am here presenting facts just like you are in your own distorted way. This talk about Punjab being the most developed was not there 10 years ago when every Punjabi knew that Sindh was much more developed that Punjab. However, since they started getting unfair amount of money and resources all of a sudden they are the best :).
Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto in 1970s instead of giving back 50% GST to provinces, took away 100% GST and permanently federalized it. That not only hurt Sindh but gave Punjab great way to plunder the wealth and resources of other provinces. You talk about Punjab paying the most taxes. That might be true but that tax goes to the federal government and is not utilized correctly during the resource sharing. All the taxes that Ounjab pays come back to them through a very unfair NFC award system. So Punjab paying taxes does not mean anything. Someone else mentioned going to NWFP and seeing a completely different country . The fact of the matter is Punjab has never cared and never will care about other provinces which is why NWFP and Baluchistan are where they are in development. They are backward not because of their own choice but because of Punjabi monopoly on these revenues and resources.
Forget $50 billion that is NYC budget. At least give the provinces what their fair share is. I am frankly tired of listening to Punjabi rhetoric about how they are the only true Pakistanis. All I have seen in my years in Pakistan is nothing but total disregard of anything not called a PUNJABI.
At the end when you had no points left you started blabbering about Talibanization and Sindhu Desh and MQM but conveniantly left out the Punjabi Assosiciation (involved in everything from Dacoity to murder in Karachi) and that Talibanization and burning of cities is happening in Peshawar and Quetta areas because of you guys. Try walking in those areas and mentioning that you are from Punjab. You will not survive. You know why? Because the only thing they hate more than shaytaan is Punjab......

Re: # 93 hasan sahib sez

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First of all if most of the revenue generated by Sindh can go to Punjab than why not to the other 2 provinces. Lets stop the giving Sindh`s revenue to Punjab and see if they complain or not. Population is not and never should be the only criteria.

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Amen brother! Population should not be the sole criteria. What else would you suggest?

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Are you going to tell me now that I am wrong in saying that Sindh generates 65% of the revenue of Pakistan. With 65% revenue, where is the money going?

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This is another big stick in the hands of MQM. Be honest and say it is not Sindh, rather Karachi that generates 65% revenues.

Do you know what revenues are you talking about here? Karachi generates mainly two kinds of revenue that are different from the rest of country: Corporate tax, and export related taxes.

And believe you me that Tando Allah yar will not produce these two either, even though the poor Tando lies smack in the middle of Sindh.

For obvious reasons, corporate head quarters of almost all the institutions are situated in Karachi so the corporate tax collection will be done there. Export related taxes are also generated from Karachi because hello! Karachi is a port city.

However the whole of Pakistan pays through their nose bulk of revenues that come from Federal taxes on petrol, gas, and electricity. Punjab being the largest and most developed state pays the most into these taxes.

Before we get into detailed and micro numbers, let me point out something on macro level.

Pakistan`s revenues are roughly $10-15 billion a year. This is an abysmally low figure for a country of 150 million. No matter how you cut this tiny pie, people will be hungry and unhappy.

Let’s do the numbers. Mr. Atlas Khan are you listening?

Right now the budgets for Pakistani states are:
Punjab - $5 billion (population 80 million??)
Sarhad - $1.5 billion (population 40 million???)
Balochistan - $1 billion (population ???)
source: http://www.brecorder.com/index.php?currDate=2006-11-24&currMIndex=06&currSIndex=Provincial&currPageNo=1&supDate=2006-11-24

You guys can look up for the budgets of Sindh, and Karachi.

The city of New York has a population of 8 million (opposed to Karachi`s 15-20 million).
source: http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/html/census/pop2000.shtml

NY city`s budget is $50 billion.
source: http://www.gothamgazette.com/article//20060206/200/1751

For a moment we assume that Pakistan spends all of its revenues of $15 billion on Karachi
or we spend all of $15 billion on Sarhad.

It still is going to be difficult. The reason is simple. Even when we spend $15 billion Atlas Khan will make one visit to NY and start another flame-bait on chowk about Punjab.

The example above shows that when it comes to the size of revenue pie, little tiny states of US and Europe generate more revenue than whole of South Asia+Iran+Central Asia combined. BTW Hindians do not spend this much on any of their cities either. So rest assured $15 billion is a lot of money even in the super-Rich tiger called Hindia.

Instead of learning the art of revenue generation, people like Atlas and you Mr. Hasan shout and cry purely based on ethnic hatred.

The reason we cannot collect taxes and generate revenues is simple. Commie-leftie policies.

Funny that every jamat or party starting from MQM, to JI, to Sindhu Desh, to Atlas Khan all carry deep in their hearts those little tiny statues of Stalin. That is why my friend Karachi or Lahore or Multan or Peshawar will remain dirty smelly poverty stricken places compared to the West.

Just see what commie lefties of Kabul did to Afghanistan. Now they will try to burn and plunder Peshawar, Kohat, Bannu, Islamabad, Karachi, and Lahore just like they burned Kabul, Kandhar, and Jalalabad.

And Pakistan`s Atlas`es and Mahmoods who make it out of the country, and live, wine, and dine in the West will always bring back to Pakistan the gifts of Commie anarchist ideology.

Sad indeed!

#54
``But wait a minute, aren`t there all ethnicities in Karachi who work and send money home? Anything wrong with that? Are the Pathan rickshaw drivers plundering Karachi? Or was there a Ghouri style invasion by Lahoris? ``
Actually NO there is nothing wrong with it. Go and read my reply again. I said the problem was not that Punjabis took the money back had it stopped there. Yes the Sharifs bratharaan did very well for Punjab but just blaming CM and Governer clashes on everything is ignorant. Just because you know a couple of thingsabout Pakistan does not make you an authority on how things were done. Are you telling me that during the Sharif government, Sindh (and the other 2 smaller provinces) actually got their rightful share. Are you going to tell me now that I am wrong in saying that Sindh generates 65% of the revenue of Pakistan. With 65% revenue, where is the money going? Do you actually want to make people believe that Punjab got better by the sheer hard work of Punjabis. We all see and know Punjabis all over the world. You can call them anything but ``Hard Working``. You can yell all you want about how wealthy Punjab is but the truth is; it is not. It never generated nor ever will generate enough revenue. Just because it is the largest province in Pakistan does not mean that all the resources should be spent on the dagga land rather than given to provinces which actually need them.
Also you are telling people that because NWFP and Baluchistan dont generate enough revenue they should not complain. First of all if most of the revenue generated by Sindh can go to Punjab than why not to the other 2 provinces. Lets stop the giving Sindh`s revenue to Punjab and see if they complain or not. Population is not and never should be the only criteria. If it is, then injustice will prevail creating hatred among people. But I guess that is what people like you are looking for. 10 years ago you and your family could not say one good thing about Punjab. Now all of a sudden you hate Karachi and scream ``jiye Punjab``. I have been reading you other replies on this site and no wonder people think of you as an idiot.

Re: # 91Dear taikonaut I don’t see any reason for this unjustified emotional and paranoid angry reaction on your part. Why is it that I would try to divide the people of Pakistan, I would be the last person seeing them fighting against each other in a civil war. I want them united as a nation and as Muslims. But what I see is that they are already divided, for example:
I didn’t urge Pathans, and Urdu speakers cut each other’s throats in Karachi, I didn’t incite the Pathans to hate Balochs and vice versa, I didn’t urge the people of Balochistan to hate Punjabis, I didn’t ask Sarakiks to make them claim that Punjabi administration is attempting to change the linguistic map of southern Punjab, making it very much mixed population on Punjabis and sarakiks, I didn’t led the people of Hazara division into thinking that the Pathan belt of NWFP nurtures a bias against them. And last but not the least I didn’t ask the people of East Pakistan to fight against Pakistan army and demand a separate homeland? I didn’t dear; I was not even born at that time, and Balochistan and Sind I haven’t even visited in my lifetime.

Various linguistic groups in Pakistan don’t enjoy easy relationship but all of them have their joint enemy, it is Punjab and why isn’t that Punjab has assumed the dubious distinction of common enemy of Balochs, Pathans, Sindhis , Saraikis etc? This is indeed a point to ponder. Role of Punjab as an exploiter and usurper has been set by historical precedent, I didn’t shape and paint Punjab that way.

#90 by atlas33 on December 3, 2006 9:58am PT
Nice to hear from the great avatar of division and anarchy.

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I wrote this article.My point had never been to criticise any particular linguistc group.

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Glad to hear that. However if it quacks like an anarchist, walks like one, swims in “ethnic sewer” like one, then it must be an anarchist.

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I only pointed out what ails present day pakistan, and also the posssible threats that could emerge in distant future.

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Major threats to Pakistan`s future are many that primarily come from the anarchists. Divisions based on language is the first such ploy.

These anarchists will never talk about improving economy, reducing taxes, and setting up of more schools. You know why? Anarchy thrives in the gutters of ethnic hatred.

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My study of Pakistani history and its present conditions reveal that many people in smaller provinces dont feel well about the dominance of punjab in country`s affairs. their misgivings are not without substance

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Study based on ethnic and linguistic hatred and divisiveness is no study at all. It is just a pathetic manifesto of anarchism.

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and mark my words, this ill feeling [towards Punjab] would be the biggest reason if Pakistan breaks up in future, the only biggest reason.

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The biggest reason for breakups is the anarchy mostly spread by the commies and show-shaw-lists (socialist for fashion only).

Free market policies on the other hand bring in the much needed money and development funds. Those funds keep people together O my anarchist hater inta-lec-chual!

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And punjab should be divided because southern punjab is not punjab at all. they are predominately saraiki, and linguisticall and culturally they are far closer to sindhis and to Balochs

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Yeah right anarchist sahib! That`s why Siraiki landowners feel much safer in Balochistan and Sindh. Their land and their money is always in a Balochi or Sindhi house. Hahahh!

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. There is logical reaon why punjab should be divided on linguistic lines, and same holds true for other provices.

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This is the same commie $hite that has utterly destroyed our next door neighbor aka Afghanistan.

Funny (in a sad way) how these pathetic anarchists (after destroying Afghanistan) are now ready to gobble up Pakistan.

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other provinces have also committedd sins but as punjab has commiteed greatest sin, and perpetrated the greatest wrong, so it should be the first.

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Yeah Punjab committed sins by feeding, clothing, and saving these dirt poor hill billies. Punjabis should have let these Afghans rot in Siberian concentration camps after free train rides in the commie-cars.

These anarchists are like snakes. Keep feeding them pure milk, still they would poison you in the very first opportunity they get.

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i dont see any reason why some of the punjabi readers react so emotionally to a suggestion which is purely administrative,

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Do you Mr. Khan read what you write? Just few lines above you were talking about ``purely linguistic`` basis for division. Now you talk about ``administrative basis``.

We in Pakistan should be aware of these snakes from Afghanistan. They destroyed that beautiful country in the name of Pashtoons, Tajiks, Uzbeks, and Hazaras. Now they are ready to repeat their crimes in Pakistan as well.

I wrote this article.My point had never been to criticise any particular linguistc group. I only pointed out what ails present day pakistan, and also the posssible threats that could emerge in distant future. My study of Pakistani history and its present conditions reveal that many people in smaller provinces dont feel well about the dominance of punjab in country`s affairs. their misgivings are not without substance and mark my words, this ill feeling would be the biggest reason if Pakistan breaks up in future, the only biggest reason. And punjab should be divided because southern punjab is not punjab at all. they are predominately saraiki, and linguisticall and culturally they are far closer to sindhis and to Balochs. There is logical reaon why punjab should be divided on linguistic lines, and same holds true for other provices. other provinces have also committedd sins but as punjab has commiteed greatest sin, and perpetrated the greatest wrong, so it should be the first. to expiate its sins.
i dont see any reason why some of the punjabi readers react so emotionally to a suggestion which is purely administrative, and stands the test of reason and rationality.

There is no logic of just dividing Punjab,. why not Blauchistan, Sindh and NWFP. Why not have 25 provinces in the country... Why is Punjab always on the pedestal ? there are bound to be more Punjabis every where becasue they are more,, simple as that.

Each province has a case of being divided up, not Punjab alone.. Sindh has Mohajirs and Sindhis,. Balauchistan has Pathans, Balochs and Mekranis, NWFP has pathans, Hindko and so forth...

Re: #86 by bulleya on November 27, 2006 9:41am PT

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.....punjab should be divided into smaller pieces............

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This is yet another totally unproductive rant.

Mujib said Punjab ate their jute. How?
In 1950s budget E. Pak proportion compared to W. Pak = 46%
In 2005 budget BDesh proportion compared to Pakistan = 40%

So BDesh gets angry at Punjab, and loses 6% of their budget in 30 years. Whattta progress!

Not just the drop in proportion, look at the BDesh deficit spending (gap between revenue and spending) is up $2.5 billions (5 times compared to 1950s). Whatta progress!

Mujib is a leader under 1950s W. Pak domination,
He + his sons + daughters + grand kids + uncles + aunts = minced meat in Sonar bangla.
Whatta progress.

Same thing is true now.

Lefties and commies are attacking Punjab, without realizing their stomachs filled, their houses safe all thanks to Punjab domination.

If you doubt what I say, just go and check out the budget of Karazai`s Afghanistan. Poor guy can`t even have and Afghani security detail. Whatta Progress under Leftie-commie inta-lec-chuals.

khaans or no-khaans....
i really didn`t mean to offend anybody.....

personally i try not to judge people by their color, race, ethnicity etc..... we`ve some great pathans who`ve done our country a lot of good and there are a lot of punjabis who`ve done more harm than good... in fact if i start thinking, i might be able to recollect more khans (pathan or not) who`ve been a source of pride for the whole pakistan... so
I DON`T HAVE ANYTHING AGAINST KHANS... they are great ppl

what i wrote was what i`ve observed and i might be mistaken at some places but not all...

also i cannot argue with facts, assertions or analogies to prove that dividing punjab will do such and such damage... it`s more of a hunch and it doesn`t seem to me a great idea....
and on the flip side, i`ve failed to see one argument which might persuade me to change my mind on it
had i been around in 1971, i`d have opposed the idea of seperation of east pakistan even though one could easily ``prove`` that it was in west pakistan`s interest... but not in pakistan`s (east AND west) interest

taikonaut:
if majority of a people fall into certain category... u don`t refer to it as stereotypes
and bulldozed or not, Urdu is the national language of Pakistan... and now that it is... i`d appreciate if all pakistanis appreciate that

adamkhan:
i am a punjabi and i hold pakistan a lot dearer... and ``most`` punjabis i personally know share the thought but a few pathans i`ve met would happily walk away with their ``pakhtoonistan``... now this is not to say that all pathans are like that... but then, if 5 of the 10 pathans i`ve known share a thought, i`d ``assume`` that half of all pathans share that thought...
and the equation is not as simple as punjab=pakistan

last note.....
i believe it`s ``perfectly alright`` to put sarhad before punjab if u r a pathan or punjab before sarhad if u r a punjabi, but only as long as it doesn`t do PAKISTAN any harm...
so let`s not fight here and let`s all be good PAKISTANIS