The Great Wrong

HisExcellency

The difference would be in the blame game. An entire ethnic group wont be blamed, but the local leaders would be ones accountable for things. These days it is easy to blame everything on the lack of funds and thus on Islamabad. Even within the NWFP, Hazara should be a separate province.

Provincial Autonomy was in the origional plan for Pakistan, it doesnt matter who or what it strengthens. I mentioned the Pukhtoonkhwa issue in one of my earlier posts because it shows how much say a provincial assembly has in provincial matters.

Faisaluno:

During the 80s, ethnicities were suppressed in the name of Islam. We have all seen the consequences of that. Branding the nationalists as traitors will only favour the mullah. The difference between the two is that whereas the nationalist will remain within his province, the mullah aims to go beyond that.

I dont understand one thing, why is this seen as an insult by some Punjabis? I mean it would still be Pakistan wont it? No body is talking about cutting off a chunk and creating another Bangladesh. So whats the big deal?

Che,

(Majumdar, the city of Multan which would most probably go to the new Seraikistan is a pretty mixed city.)

I presume the ethnic mix would be Punjabi and Saraiki? But is the level of cultural differences/animosity between the two communities would be minimal, no?

Regards

I have no axe to grind in this as I am not Pakistani. As a Punjabi in fact, I probably have a vague feeling against dividing Punjab.

I would say though that in India, the experience of dividing states in to smaller administrative units has been uniformly positive. The BJP was always a proponent of smaller states, and in no case has the experience been negative for the smaller state. If anything, the parent state has had to reform itself like Bihar losing royalties that now go to Jharkhand.

The division of Punjab is a terrible idea!

Just imagine, how could the country of Pakistan have ever become the leader of the ummah that it currently is and how could it ever have taught all those lessons during its various wars with the Indians that it has taught to the Indians if there did not exist a strong and unified Punjab able to withstand the devious designs of the sneaky Sindhis (if you have any doubts just look at this HP character!) and the various foolish acts of the NWFP people (I can not name a suitable example yet, but I am sure the Punjabis can find one, if needed).

Without the strong glue that the Punjabi army has provided, the country of Pakistan would come – well it would come unglued and take off for faraway destinations of the world – like Mushy’s children!

And don’t even get me started about the grievous damage such a step would cause to the sanctity of the Pakistani naari-hood! I mean, without the Pakistani Punjabis presenting one united front, the purest of the pure – the beautiful fair maidens of Pakistan – over which all those Indians are drooling everywhere in the world – perhaps even in the cyber-world (just look at this Beej character, for example) – can one even BEGIN to imagine what catastrophe would befall them?!! I mean they would be getting sexually molested all over the place, people in power would be urinating in their mouths, and hey, they won’t even be allowed to run in marathons without getting lathi-sticks stuck into them!!!

Tauba, tauba, tauba!

La-hole bila!!

The Punjabis of Pakistan are its super patriots! They have earned that reputation through their various acts in the service of Pakistan – whether or not the average Pakistani appreciates that or not!

Re: # 14
Oy shava! sadi ally te chaa gai bai!. ::two thumbs up wala ikan::

so check this out. this is how the kgb planned to destabilse pakistan in retaliation for pak support afghan mujahideen. what are the odds that another country is taking a leaf out from this playbook? for those interested, i urge you to read this in full because causing instability in baluchistan was a central part of kgb plan. thankfully pakistanis at that time stood united to defeat the soviet union. is the present generation going to follow suit?

http://www.wilsoncenter.org/index.cfm?topic_id=1409&fuseaction=va2.document&identifier=3FF29963-ABFA-30E0-344EE1596C121EDF&sort=Collection&item=Soviet%20Foreign%20Policy


In February 1980, Andropov approved a KGB plan of action relating to Pakistan which specified the following:

[“]1. Through KGB SCD [Second Chief Directorate] assets, a warning is to be conveyed to the Pakistan Mission in Moscow to the effect that if a sensible line does not prevail in [Pakistani leader] Zia-ul Haq’s political course, and Pakistan agrees under pressure from the US and China to turn its territory into a base for permanent armed struggle against Afghanistan, the Oriental Studies Institute of the USSR Academy of Sciences will be instructed to study ways of exploiting the Baluchi(1) and Pushtun(2) movements in Pakistan, as well as internal opposition to the country’s military regime, in the interests of the security of the frontiers of the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan (DRA).

2. Using operational-technical means, 500 copies of leaflets produced at the Center are to be disseminated in Islamabad and Karachi; some of these, issued in the name of a group of Pakistani Army officers, sharply criticize the government’s internal and external policy, which is leading to a constant deterioration of the country’s material situation.

3. Three hundred leaflets codenamed ‘SARDAR’ are to be produced, demonstrating to the administration that there is extreme dissatisfaction with its policy in public and military circles.

...step up the activities of Pakistani émigrés and of the nationalist movement, particularly in Baluchistan; disrupt Afghan émigré organizations; intensify the local population’s hostility towards Afghan refugees.

...In Bangladesh, the aim was to impede actions by the Zia-ur Rakhman regime in support of the Afghan counter-revolution, and to intensify disagreements between Bangladesh and Pakistan on such disputed issues as the repatriation of Pakistani citizens, the division of banking assets and so on, and the responsibility of Pakistan’s ruling circles for the economic backwardness of Bangladesh.

...• Complete the elaboration of proposals for exploiting the separatist movement of Pakistani Baluchis and Pakistani opposition forces located in the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan.

...• Promote by all means an intensification of the Pakistani population’s hostility towards Afghan refugees and the disruption of the Afghan emigration in Pakistan.

...• [“] Through the KGB Residencies in Islamabad and Karachi and the Afghan special services, supply slanted information to Baluchi leaders about the Pakistani authorities’ intention to legalize the presence of Afghan refugees on the territory of Baluchistan, giving them the right to erect permanent dwellings and to use the pasture lands to put out their animals to graze.

• Prompt some Baluchi groups to engage in armed clashes with Afghan armed detachments.

• Examine the expediency of making and maintaining contacts with representatives of the Baluchi emigration to Europe, in order to ascertain the situation within the Baluchi movement, exerting influence on it, and giving the impression that the USSR intends to give broad assistance to this movement.

• Consider the expediency and technical possibility of setting up a radio station in Afghanistan which, in the name of the Baluchis, would call on the population of Baluchistan to fight for the establishment of an autonomous state.


• Through the Afghans, carry out a series of leaflet operations designed to exacerbate relations between the population of Baluchistan and the Afghan refugees.

• Convey slanted information to Pakistani leaders about the US’s intentions and specific actions to exploit the Baluchi problem to put pressure on the Zia-ul Haq government in order to secure the further use of Pakistan as a stronghold for organizing the undeclared war against Afghanistan.


• Carry out disinformation operations about the CIA’s contacts with individual Baluchi leaders, including some who had emigrated, either directly or through political figures such as [probably Former Iranian Prime Minister Shapur] Bakhtiar and [Former Iranian General Gholam Ali] Oveisi [Oveissi]. For the sake of credibility, compile and send out letters ostensibly from Baluchis to the Pakistan Embassy in the US and some countries in Asia, containing threats against Zia-ul Haq and other military and state personalities in Pakistan. It would be clear from this that the Baluchi leaders are receiving support and financial assistance from the American authorities and special services in pursuit of the idea of establishing an independent Baluchistan.

• Consider jointly with the Afghans how to incite the Baluchis to engage in antigovernment actions, and what assistance should be given.

As a Punjabi, I have no problem with an administrative bifurcation of Punjab into two provinces. But I will not stand for this bifurcation if it is only meant to increase the power of politicians from NWFP, Sindh or Baluchistan.

Remember the land reforms of 1972?

The land reforms were implemented in full force in Punjab. But in Sindh and Baluchistan the jagirdari system continues unabated, 34 years later. Those reforms weakened the Punjabi feudals but didn`t weaken the Sindhi, Pashtun and Baluchi ones. Division of Punjab will strengthen the Altaf Hussains, Bhuttos, Asfandyar Walis and Ataullah Mengals.

But will it make any difference to common Sindhi, Baluchi or Pashtun? That case has not been made yet by anybody in a convincing manner.

taikonaut:

this commie-mullah alliance also combined agains the shah of iran. mullahs however showed their true face after the revolution by purging iran of leftist including kicking out bani sadr - one of the prime movers behind the revolution and the elected president of iran. also i am in favour of govt retaining strong contacts with the mullahs because mullahs are not beyghairath like the lefties who will betray the country for a couple of bottles of sharab. after the soviet union fell, reports came out from kgb archives showing that pretty much all pakistani leftist leaders were on the take. later i will see if i can find these reports on the web.

adam khan, my comments about pathans and baluchis was in jest. my school friends in karachi were from all parts of pakistan. within that group kashmiris were the biggest pain in the ass. we spent most of our time trading ethnic and religious insults and as a result i have developed a rather thick skin.

also the point i was trying to make was that two critical issues for pakistan are i. generation of resources and ii. allocation of those resources to folks who most need it. there are are needy people in all four provinces who should be helped on the basis of need rather than any other factor. in an environment where there is serious resource constraint as is the case in pak today, people are playing with fire when poverty is blamed on ethnicity because this argument is very simple and finds a lot of takers in a society where jahilyuth rules as is the case in pak today. moreover, this argument is never true. people who know better have a duty to set things straight.

Re: # 27
I`ll stick to the dope thanks, and I`m not Punjabi. Sorry I can`t help you out with the Ghilman thing :(

Re: # 8

Majumdar, the city of Multan which would most probably go to the new Seraikistan is a pretty mixed city. I agree more or less with the rest of your post, but I still wouldn`t want to risk giving iiots to commit mindless whole scale slaughter, it really doesn`t take much of a reason.

Re: # 26

You also get gilmans, if you are inclined that way... or so I heard... anyway, the reason the FATA folks are not very fond of punjabis is because they don`t want their gilman boys to be bu!ggerd by goat-f***ng punjabis... that`s one of root causes, among others, for this tension between various paki provinces... :)

Re: # 25
So when can I move to FATA? I heard the dope is king

Re: # 23

I completely agree with you, you have every right to live anywhere in Pakistan. and so does the Baluchi and the Pathan who decides to settle in Karachi.

Re: # 18 ahmadkhan sez

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1. communists are dead, gone! khatam! they died the day the Mullahs strung up Najib
2. Those trusted dogs [Mullahs] of ISI and the Saudis.
3.Islam key fatah and communism key defeat.
4. Today Khans dont bare their chests to die in the name of non-violence, today they disrupt marathons and demand a ban on music.
5. The Mullah won the cold war, now they are consolidating.

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Communism as expounded by Soviets is dead for sure as the Soviet Union is dead and turned into Putanic-Union. However the lefties of the commie breed are alive and well. From Venezuela, to Cuba, to Palestine, to Syria, to Afghanistan, to NWFP, to India`s marxists they are still busy creating anarchy. When Chavez creates or consumes stink, our lefties get high on it pretty quick.

So the book on communism is not closed. In fact the recent Jirga showed Mullahs and ANPians yelling about Bajor while totally ignoring Arab-inspired suiciders of Dargai. That clearly shows that Mullahs and ex-communists have teamed up to form neo-commies. They may shout AllahoAkbar, but they all are living in the same commie excrement.

As you said in #2 Mullahs were trusted ``dogs`` of ISI. Now ISI is slowly killing or ``retraining`` its dogs. They can`t do that fast enough thanks to the overt and covert threat of neo-commies. These neo-commies are the ones disrupting marathons as they have no true link to the great Bacha Khan`s non-violence.

dude, i am a mussalmaan and i dont believe in this regional/tribal crap. if i want to live in quetta, i live in quetta and if i want to live in peshawer, i live peshawer. i dont need anyone`s permission. furthermore, as a citizen of pakistan, i am entitled to benefit from all its resources.