The Great Wrong

#14 by ally

Your ire should be reserved for the charsadda/mardan pseudo-angrez `tamian` types from where all these `khans` come from who dominate NWFP. All Pathans are not like that.

faisaluno:

This was really funny, first you said

articles which fit their agenda which is to cause internal division within pakistan.

and then came

there are actually more pathans and baluchis residing in karachi than in peshawer and quetta respectively which is not necessarily a good thing for us karachites.

lol.

faisaluno:

if i am not mistaken there are more pukhtoons in baluchistan than baluchis and

You are mistaken, Pushtoons are a minority in Baluchistan. They live in their ancestral lands, i.e. the north of Baluchistan (adjacent to the NWFP)

there are actually more pathans and baluchis residing in karachi than in peshawer and quetta respectively which is not necessarily a good thing for us karachites.

there are more Mohajir in Karachi than the Sindhis, is that necessarily good for the Sindhis? and another thing, if one is pushto speaking then one can not be be a karachite?

adam khan. do a little research if you are interested in this issue. the biggest transfer to the central government occurs from sind due to karachi. so if revenue is distributed on the basis of where its generated, then karachi and sind would be the biggest beneficiaries and baluchistan and sarhad the biggest losers. this development would be rather sad considering these two provinces are the most backward in pak. all the data is available on the website of central bank and cbr.

ally

do takay ka peshawar?? are we fed up with playing pakistani pakistani? kher the thing is ROYALTY, heard the word munna? ROYALTY ON RESOURCES?? NWFP and Baluchistan need to be paid their due share.

If you sell your wheat on market prices, then give us the royalties that are due from our electricity. its not that hard to understand you just have to open your mind up a bit.

Tell me, how many of the NEFP chaudhries paid for the public roads from their pockets? do you have any data to back it up? I seriously dont know about this development.


taikonaut

lol. It sounded like a siyapa of the communists. Let me tell you one thing cheetay, the communists are dead, gone! khatam! they died the day the Mullahs strung up Najib with a cigarette up his nose. Those trusted dogs of ISI and the Saudis.

Islam key fatah and communism key defeat. ALLAHOAKBAR!!

but now brace yourself, the Islam is coming home to you. Be a man and embrace it now. Today Khans dont bare their chests to die in the name of non-violence, today they disrupt marathons and demand a ban on music. Communists had nothing to do with it (neither did Punjabis, I might add). The Mullah won the cold war, now they are consolidating.

And you need to read a bit more on Bangladesh, the days when everything was blamed on the communists are gone. The cold war is over taikonaut bhai, wake up and smell the pepsi.

you guys are so consumed by your prejudice that anything coming from a Pathan comes across as an insult. Its weird.

ally man, chill out. there are no takers for the kind of bakwaas peddled by this ``article`` which first appeared in that esteemed pakistani publication - the frontier post. people behind this website troll through pakistani press in order to find and publish on chowk, articles which fit their agenda which is to cause internal division within pakistan. the aim is to build a perception that pakistan is falling apart. as the kahawuth goes, if you repeat a lie long enough it becomes the truth. if you recall, after bugti became allah ko pyara, these bozos published a series of articles in which claim was being made that pak would be turning into the balkans before the end of the year i.e. just about now. reality unfortunately for them is that violence has declined by 90% after his death.

as far as ethnic harmony is concerned due to rapid urbanisation, ethnic boundries are almost irrelevant. pathans in fact are the biggest internal migrants within pak. if i am not mistaken there are more pukhtoons in baluchistan than baluchis and there are actually more pathans and baluchis residing in karachi than in peshawer and quetta respectively which is not necessarily a good thing for us karachites.

also your point is completely valid that awam is ghareeb every where and the most ghurbuth is found in areas dominated by sardars and waderas. things however are changing due to economic growth in pak. country is now in a position to finance infrastructure projects such as dams which will change status quo in rural areas. obviously sardars being the biggest beneficiaries of status quo are putting up a fight because they want things to remain as they have for for the last two thousand years. important to remember that tribalism is also a mortal sin in islam.

as far as expats are concerened, you should counter the propaganda rather than getting into an us vs. them debate. people living abroad might tend to rely on kaha sunna because of the physical distance between them and pak.

One thing that is more important than getting one`s share of the pie is what is percieved by the residents of other provinces. Non-punjabis hold a grudge against Punjabis because Punjabis dominate the armed forces and the burecracy. It doesn`t matter what the truth is. What matters is what separatist gourps think the truth is.

The glorious armed forces of Pakistan eat up most of the revenues generated. And the armed forces mean Punjabis. So, no need to give other numbers. Just stop feeding the army and the burecracy.

Having smaller administrative units is always better to have.

All people I`ve met from southern Punjab (particularly of Bahawalpur district) feel Lahore should have nothing to do with them. The resentement of the smaller components of Pakistan after the one-unit fiasco and the inability to implement the 1973 Constitution has resulted in a situation where ad hocism has replaced good sound governance of a functioning state. Punjabis themselves are the biggest supporters of a divided province.

However, supposing Punjab is divided into three units (something that could happen) AND that all the new provinces are allowed their constituttional rights (something far less likely to happen), how will this effect the new federal structure of Pakistan?

Will NWFP, Sindh or Baluchistan want the Punjab divided? I would like to throw out the argument that the current non-Punjab provinces are AGAINST the partition of the Punjab - particularly Sindh and NWFP. One reason has been pointed out by Urstruly and Simon.

Another reason, perhaps even bigger, is that whereas currently the 1991 Water Accord is between four provinces, for which the current Punjab state has given away much, it will become impossible to get anywhere near as beneficial a water treaty for Sindh and NWFP if there were two more provinces thrown into the loop - two more provinces which are upper ripparian.

Sure, go on, divide Punjab, let the saraikis get their province and the jhelumis thiers... so Pakistan gets two new provinces and extra expenses!

Wow wee, whoopey doo... so how is that gonna make life better for you guys in Sindh and B`stan and Sarhad? You will just have less money to take from. If it makes you feel better, that Punjab is divided now they cant take any money from us, then thats fine, but remember its just gonna cost you guys extra monies!!!

Its more your perception about Punjab. As thats what you`re good for nothing Sardars, Vaderas and Navabs have told you, cause in reality they are screwing you guys over left right and centre!

The average Punjabi is not any better off than the average Balochi or Pathan or Sindhi.

Other than KHI how much revenue is generated by the other provinces? I dont know maybe someone can tell me! But its people of Punjab who are the most industrious, hard working and producing the country`s food.

B`stan has so much gas, why is it not developed even a little? What did Bugti and Akber and all those ppl do with all that money, Punjab didn`t take your gas for free, you sold it to us, but your sardar was the one who ate it all, and lives in his fortified palace.

Maybe for Punjabs admin, it might be better to split it on linguistic lines, but not just to appease the smaller provinces. If its going to help Pakistan as a whole prosper then thats fine. But also split Balochistan into the Pakhtun and Baloch areas then, split Sarhad up and am not sure if there is any linguistic division in Sindh.

But what next for your sardars, who will they blame next? Islamabad! then what will you want, to be totally seperate?

Think thru fully before making these sort of demands. If you dont mind your own province being broken up either. What if the Serakis demand a bit of Sindh as well? There are so many other issues that can come out of this.


Where millions are squandered over the beautification of Lahore but nothing is spared for the dirt tracks that connect Quetta to its district headquarters.

Khan Saheb, It is the Lahoris who pay for their city to be decorated, Lahori people have a bit of pride in their city, the money for it doesn`t come from your mullahfied do takke ka Peshawar in Pakhtonkhamkha. How much money does Quetta generate? And the money that is allocated for Quetta where does it go? You make out as if we are bleeding you dry, doing you out of money and spending it all on us. Wake up and smell the coffee mate, we have given you guys MORE than your fair share of money, at OUR EXPENSE yet you are still ungrateful. Its your own leaders that are screwing you over, just as the Punjabi leaders are screwing the Punjabis over.

The poster below was right, Why don`t you demand schools and education and health care from your provinces instead of blaming Punjab for it, WHY DONT YOU DO SOMETHING ABOUT YOUR OWN ISSUES, TAKE IT UP WITH YOUR LOYA JIRGA OR WHATEVER YOU CALL IT. We have enuff of our own problems to deal with we don`t need to be blamed for the corruption of Mullahs Halva Khao Khan, Bacho ki Bund Maar Khan et all and their tribes who are in power in Peshawar or Vadera Ghareebo Ko Sangli Mei Rakh Sayee from Sukkur.

In all of Pakistan the disparity between the poor and the rich is most evident in both Sindh and Baluchistan. The Bugtis and Bhuttos are all foreign educated, yet look how those jahils have kept their local people! Is that the fault of Punjab too????

Its time Punjabi people gave a monh tor javab to these people in other provinces. For centuries these jahil khans and pathans have been doing hit and run chori excursions into Punjab killing all and sundry not caring if they are Muslim or not. Its time to tell them all to back off.

Re: # 12 adamkhan sez

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1. By presenting his vision for a prosperous Pakistan?

2. NWFP ... motorway? okay, the assembly of NWFP during the democratic regime of Nawaz Sharif chose to name their province Pukhtunkhwa.

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Mr. Atlas Khan`s vision of prosperity is right up there next to the communists of Afghanistan, nay the communists of the now-dead Soviet Union. Nikkamma hudharam (good for nothing) people talk about changing names, changing lines for this province or that. If any region of Pakistan that needs constitutional change is FATA. Draconian laws of FCR must go. FATA should be merged with Sarhad and Peshawar government should have authority on all the agencies.

FYI, Prosperity in Pakistan will come from modern infrastructure, and rapid industrialization. While Mr. Atlas Khan`s suggestions will turn Pakistan into a communist Jannat (heaven) called Afghanistan or worse yet ``Somalia``. Here is why!

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3. you drag in Afghanistan? Why?
4. provincial division of Pakistan along linguistic lines. I completely agree

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Communists in Pakistan have been spewing venom along Linguistic lines from day-1. Look what the Communists in E. Bengal did. They even rioted along linguistic lines and destroyed the chances of development in their region. You don`t believe me? Then do some research.

The facts are that during Bangla riots, E. Pak`s budget was 46% of W. Pak budget. For 2005 BDesh budget is 40% of Pakistan. That is a a drop of 6% in spending, and increase of 70% in budget deficit. This is what we call the jannat of Sonar Bangla the epitome of linguistic divisions.

Afghanistan is another Jannati (heavenly) example of linguistic divisions. Communists of Kabul never understood the real need of Afghani people i.e. more jobs, better infrastructure, and peaceful relations with Pakistan.

Instead the communists of Kabul relied on the likes of Abdul Rahman Pizzwak whose sole aim of life was to spew venom against Pakistan. The results of misguided communist policies was the utter destruction of Afghanistan. The destruction was also along linguistic lines where thousands of Pashtoons were murdered in cold blood by Uzbeks and Tajiks.

Pashtoons in return killed thousands of Hazaras, and Uzbeks. And during this communist inspired upheaval in Afghanista, where did 7 millions of Pashtoons got a safe place? Pakistan!

Now go and wake up Abdul Rahman Pizzwak from his grave and tell him what happened thanks to the divisive linguistic communistic shenanigans. He may learn something posthumously.

Bottom line is that the sane people taste the bitter fruits of Linguistic division and cry. While the communists continue talking about linguistic divisions.

Pakshtoonkhawa name is not going to put bread on the ``Thali`` of Pashtoons. But a motorway, or better schools, or industry will. Still communists will ask for ``name change`` instead of ``real change``.

Shame utter shame.

taikonaut:

Where exactly has Atlas Khan ``spewed`` venom? By presenting his vision for a prosperous Pakistan? This is the kind of attitude that heralds the abrupt end of a discussion when people dont have the stamina to listen to the other person`s point of view.

He is talking about Pakistan, and apparently is very proud of the fact that he is a Pakistani, and yet you drag in Afghanistan? Why? Is the name Atlas Khan not Pakistani enough for you?

You say why dont the people of NWFP DEMAND a motorway? okay, the assembly of NWFP during the democratic regime of Nawaz Sharif chose to name their province Pukhtunkhwa. What happened? Did this set of directions change into a name? NO it didnt. That is the point of this article, that the provinces dont have the power to implement their own decisions because of the overwhelming influence of Punjab. Where millions are squandered over the beautification of Lahore but nothing is spared for the dirt tracks that connect Quetta to its district headquarters.

Dr Tariq Rehman suggested the provincial division of Pakistan along linguistic lines. I completely agree with his suggestion. Hazara should be a seperate province, and the siraiki belt of Punjab be given its own siraikistan. It is then that the poor of the smaller provinces will blame their own leaders, and not the Punjabi.

okay lets see ..

2 more provinces means 2 more provincial assemblies 2 more cheif minsters 2 more cabinets, more money being spent on perks more problems in division of funds

yikes ...

in benazir`s goverment they made a law of 5 working days with saturday sunday off in order to make goverment offices more productive.

there was a common jokes goes on in thoes days .. tht since to an estimate 7 billionRs is being taken out of ppl`s pocket in form of bribery and extortion in goverment departments so if goverment close down goverment offices for all 7 days a week atleast we could save these 7 billionsRs of ppl money.

Atlas Khan sahib

You are obviously right.

Considering that Pakistan`s problems arise from three sources - Islam, Army and Punjab, all these three need to be cut to size.

We need not go very far to see. India has handled the languages, religion and state size issues extremely well.

Let us use the same ideas even if India is our `traditional (?)` enemy.

nhk

I don`t see why division of Punjab on linguistic lines should be a problem. The Seraiki population has had a feeling of deprivation due to perceived dominance of Central Punjab, which is justified to some extent. Besides, it will be more managable and the allegations from smaller provinces that `Punjabi khaa gaya` will be rendered moot.

However, at the same time and according to the same principle, NWFP should also be divided between Hazara areas and the Pushtoons to end domination of Charsadda/Mardan. Accordingly Dera Ismail Khan will not be in former NWFP anymore but will be logically included in the Seraiki province.

I hope the author doesn`t change his mind after the above.

The experience of India seems to indicate that smaller states are more nimble and allow better governance. Many of India`s larger states such as UP(Western UP), AP (Telengana) and Maharashtra (Vidarbha) have movements that are looking at carving out smaller states.

Che,

(having a proper working democracy )

That indeed would solve many problems in most countries/regions of the world

(Break-ups don`t exactly go down well in this part of the world,)

Not necessarily. Uttaranchal was carved out of UP, Chhattisgarh was carved out of Madhya Pradesh and Jharkhand out of Bihar in c. 2000 without a small riot let alone a full bloodbath. Even the division of the erstwhile E Punjab into three separate states in 1960s was achieved without much fuss. Yes, division of assets, liabilities and employees can often be a contentious issue but usually this can be solved thru administrative mechanisms.

IMHO, a breakup is more likely to be violent if there is a strong ethnic background to it, particularly if there are certain districts where the competing ethnicities have uncertain majorities/claims. But I don`t think that would be the case in W Punjab.

Having said that, not being either a Pakistani/Punjab, I would not be able to comment as to whether the call for dividing Punjab would arouse strong sentiments.

Regards

Punjabis comprise 2/3 of Pakistan. As Urstruly mentioned, Punjabis
have been getting just over half of their due share. You can do this
with one large province, but when you divide into three, each will be-
come more cognizant of it`s rights and as a whole, Punjab will end
up taking more than it`s getting now from the federation pool. That`s
just common sense.

So the idea that division will be a panacea is a facetious argument
forwarded by munafiqs, like S.M. Zafar, who has done more harm to
the spirit of the 1973 Constitution than any person, dead or alive.

Punjab is not a land of milk and honey. There is just as much poverty
and neglect in it`s rural areas, as any other province. Punjab`s critics
are a handful of dirty politicians/feudals in the smaller provinces, who
have been blackmailing the center for their own interests and embezz-
ling the future of their people for decades. You don`t appease them by
cutting down Punjab.

Musharraf, if he gets a second term, should follow-up on his promise
to make sure that development funds are bypassed the sardars and
nawabs, and spent on the people. That, and that alone, is the way out.

Redrawing of borders is just a bhonda mazaq.