Islamic Education, Madrassah Reform, Rationality and Dawkins
Asif Naqshbandi November 29, 2006
#82 Posted by bjkumar on December 2, 2006 4:18:08 am
#70
Ama yaar, if I were you, I would immediately get a check-up for possible ``prostate`` cancer!
Nurse Krishna already has his rubber gloves ready!
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#81 Posted by krishna_abcd on December 2, 2006 1:37:57 am
#70 by Urstruly
[The other day I was looking at some engineering drawings and something struck to my mind in such an incredible way and I was so overwhelmed by it that it was hard for me to breath for a while. My eyes welled up with tears and it was impossible to hold them back. .All I wanted at the moment was to fall down on my knees and prostrate. ]
Yes, the urge to prostate
[It was one tiny little fact that had stirred that hurricane of emotion. The fact was that a simple geometric figure, a straight line, is perceived by every human on this planet as a straight line. The perception of a straight line through our eyes and its interpretation by our brains as such is no simple task and yet the compatibility of this perception and interpretation by all humanity is just mind boggling. Is such compatibility even possible if were just a result of a cosmic accident? I think the most ridiculous idea that humans ever conceived is that the universe came into existence by itself. ]
Yes, it is just as amazing that living beings take a crap once in a while.
Now why does that not make me want to ``prostate``? Let alone wanting to kill anyone who wants to leave the ``prostating`` club?
[What is the proof that a non-believer has for his belief that God does not exist, other than his parroting and ignorant insistence that God does not exist?]
What is the proof that God does not have a monkey-face?
[On the other hand, the proof that God exists, is in every atom, every star, every galaxy, every organism, every human, every plant, every flower and everything that can be perceived through our five senses. Just open up your heart and you`ll see that even one simple straight line the shortest distance between two points will lead you to God....]
...and the beheading of apostates.
[The other day I was looking at some engineering drawings and something struck to my mind in such an incredible way and I was so overwhelmed by it that it was hard for me to breath for a while. My eyes welled up with tears and it was impossible to hold them back. .All I wanted at the moment was to fall down on my knees and prostrate. ]
Yes, the urge to prostate
[It was one tiny little fact that had stirred that hurricane of emotion. The fact was that a simple geometric figure, a straight line, is perceived by every human on this planet as a straight line. The perception of a straight line through our eyes and its interpretation by our brains as such is no simple task and yet the compatibility of this perception and interpretation by all humanity is just mind boggling. Is such compatibility even possible if were just a result of a cosmic accident? I think the most ridiculous idea that humans ever conceived is that the universe came into existence by itself. ]
Yes, it is just as amazing that living beings take a crap once in a while.
Now why does that not make me want to ``prostate``? Let alone wanting to kill anyone who wants to leave the ``prostating`` club?
[What is the proof that a non-believer has for his belief that God does not exist, other than his parroting and ignorant insistence that God does not exist?]
What is the proof that God does not have a monkey-face?
[On the other hand, the proof that God exists, is in every atom, every star, every galaxy, every organism, every human, every plant, every flower and everything that can be perceived through our five senses. Just open up your heart and you`ll see that even one simple straight line the shortest distance between two points will lead you to God....]
...and the beheading of apostates.
#80 Posted by VRV on December 1, 2006 9:37:03 pm
Re: # 79
Many in Chowk mistake u for an obtrusive guy, not realising that u r flowery in ur posts;)
U can blame ur Organic Chemistry professor in India.
What abt ur daily Physics, Chemistry and Physical Chemistry? Keep a book of Vatsayana`s enclyclopedia of sex for practising the 3 sciences enlisted.
Teaching is a noble profession. If u can remember that even a Nobel Laurate like Prof. Abdus Salam honoured his maths teacher by putting his medal around the neck of his teacher by telling that his medal is `his`?
ABt the brain, what I said needs no repetition. Even in mother`s womb it`s the brain and the blood supplying heart that`s formed at first than any other limbs. Therefore our lives revolve around how we think and how we enlive our brains. The proverb, `man is the maker of his own happiness` is more than true!
If physiological & biological changes occur in evolution, it`s due to the sustained neural auto-suggestions to (species/our) brains. How some species adapt to the environment is what we read in our high schools. Physiological adaptation doesnt occur without the need sparking in the brain of a species. What if some species doenst have a brain? (Ooops! BJ, I dont like to go deep & embarrass myslef by writing something outlandish!.Btw, this`s what my brain chemistry did now. I am opne for any amendments on what I wrote above).
Many in Chowk mistake u for an obtrusive guy, not realising that u r flowery in ur posts;)
U can blame ur Organic Chemistry professor in India.
What abt ur daily Physics, Chemistry and Physical Chemistry? Keep a book of Vatsayana`s enclyclopedia of sex for practising the 3 sciences enlisted.
Teaching is a noble profession. If u can remember that even a Nobel Laurate like Prof. Abdus Salam honoured his maths teacher by putting his medal around the neck of his teacher by telling that his medal is `his`?
ABt the brain, what I said needs no repetition. Even in mother`s womb it`s the brain and the blood supplying heart that`s formed at first than any other limbs. Therefore our lives revolve around how we think and how we enlive our brains. The proverb, `man is the maker of his own happiness` is more than true!
If physiological & biological changes occur in evolution, it`s due to the sustained neural auto-suggestions to (species/our) brains. How some species adapt to the environment is what we read in our high schools. Physiological adaptation doesnt occur without the need sparking in the brain of a species. What if some species doenst have a brain? (Ooops! BJ, I dont like to go deep & embarrass myslef by writing something outlandish!.Btw, this`s what my brain chemistry did now. I am opne for any amendments on what I wrote above).
#79 Posted by bjkumar on December 1, 2006 9:09:36 pm
#78 VRV
[Emotions are chemical in origin.]
Now you tell me!
All this while, I was thinking it was me. Now I know who to blame.
The man married three times and divorced three times. I hated the guy, without knowing why.
I could not understand a single word the dude told in the class and ended up with a lousy grade, too.
I wish I could get hold of him and beat him up.
Its all the fault of my Organic Chemistry teacher.
Ama yaar, sometimes it feels like some of us carry a whole chemistry lab in there!
If only the guy had done a decent job the lab would still be in tact!
#78 Posted by VRV on December 1, 2006 6:56:52 pm
Re: # 70
Urstruly,
U preferred not to navigate from my points. OK. I wud navigate from ur points.
Emotions are chemical in origin. Once I saw brain operation (on TV). The patient was semi-conscious. He was asked when the two points in his brain are disconnected. The patient cudnt give a reply but when the surgeon connected the two points in his brain, the patient replied. The operation is abt a mental deformity (speech disability??) that was rectified with that operation. For a an illiterate this looks like a `miracle`. Btw, most of the religious books talks abt miracles performed by prohphets/swamis etc.,
I can feel/emote in favour of OR against an entity/person depending upon my/our brought-up.
I saw a documentary of twins separated at birth who were brought up two diff cultures. They met as adults again.They looked identical but had diff approaches, beliefs in their lives. Why a docu? Think abt the partition siblings. I read a lot of stories of Sikh+Muslim, Muslim+Hindu siblings separated during 1947 and rejoined in the recent years. In one story, the Sikh brother on this side says` wahe Guru` meaning that Guru made this possible. The sister who brought up as Muslim says,`Yeh Allah ka blessings(sic)`.
YOU TELL ME WHICH ONE IS TRUE? IS IT THE ``BELIEF`` OR THE GURU/ALLAH?
I think it`s the individual belief that personifies the reunion as the work of their own gods.
In reality it was the work of some helpful friends, governments and a host of circumstances that made the reunion possible. Where wud u ascribe Guru or Allah to this?
Whatever u find in life that are unexplained were explained after scientific discoveries. It`s keeping THAT spirit that enables us to unravel this world than the blind faith of conformity. Tomorrow if scientific discovery finds god, then its very much possible that we wud all prostrate b4 him/her/the entity.
Urstruly,
U preferred not to navigate from my points. OK. I wud navigate from ur points.
Emotions are chemical in origin. Once I saw brain operation (on TV). The patient was semi-conscious. He was asked when the two points in his brain are disconnected. The patient cudnt give a reply but when the surgeon connected the two points in his brain, the patient replied. The operation is abt a mental deformity (speech disability??) that was rectified with that operation. For a an illiterate this looks like a `miracle`. Btw, most of the religious books talks abt miracles performed by prohphets/swamis etc.,
I can feel/emote in favour of OR against an entity/person depending upon my/our brought-up.
I saw a documentary of twins separated at birth who were brought up two diff cultures. They met as adults again.They looked identical but had diff approaches, beliefs in their lives. Why a docu? Think abt the partition siblings. I read a lot of stories of Sikh+Muslim, Muslim+Hindu siblings separated during 1947 and rejoined in the recent years. In one story, the Sikh brother on this side says` wahe Guru` meaning that Guru made this possible. The sister who brought up as Muslim says,`Yeh Allah ka blessings(sic)`.
YOU TELL ME WHICH ONE IS TRUE? IS IT THE ``BELIEF`` OR THE GURU/ALLAH?
I think it`s the individual belief that personifies the reunion as the work of their own gods.
In reality it was the work of some helpful friends, governments and a host of circumstances that made the reunion possible. Where wud u ascribe Guru or Allah to this?
Whatever u find in life that are unexplained were explained after scientific discoveries. It`s keeping THAT spirit that enables us to unravel this world than the blind faith of conformity. Tomorrow if scientific discovery finds god, then its very much possible that we wud all prostrate b4 him/her/the entity.
#77 Posted by raziab9 on December 1, 2006 5:56:37 pm
Re: # 76
Naaah --none of ur words have rubbed the wrong way
I talked of the ``kafir`` matter from pakistani perspective --for the ppl who believe ``````indians``````/hindus will go to hell; ``[including hindus who are said to be ``kafir``]``. See the word `said`.
I`m sure someone may/could call me a kafir and even i call myself one. none of us are perfect.
Naaah --none of ur words have rubbed the wrong way
I talked of the ``kafir`` matter from pakistani perspective --for the ppl who believe ``````indians``````/hindus will go to hell; ``[including hindus who are said to be ``kafir``]``. See the word `said`.
I`m sure someone may/could call me a kafir and even i call myself one. none of us are perfect.
#76 Posted by bjkumar on December 1, 2006 5:45:38 pm
#74 Razia
Thank you, mam! You have used simple words but some of those thoughts are profound. Please hold them!
My dear, the truth is we are ALL kafirs if you do not use the word in a narrow sense.
We all have our idols whether we know it ourselves, or not.
Idols of one kind or another!
But some of us will deny that simple fact all the way to our death!
PS:
Sorry if any of my words have rubbed you the wrong way but I can not promise that it wont happen again!
#75 Posted by raziab9 on December 1, 2006 5:40:35 pm
I wonder what is wrong with the economists, scientists, engineers and ph.ds who have modern & worldly knowledge in their professions but refuse to modernize and advance the knowledge in the religions they appear to have faith in?
--is that really faith and love of religion?
--is that really faith and love of religion?
#74 Posted by raziab9 on December 1, 2006 5:22:31 pm
Re: # 72 by bjkumar
BJ, you did pretty well on post #30. I also found the article lacking some ``common sense`` concepts --and you`re right, the guy may be fearing something due to which he didn`t bother writing about em`
God --if one belives in him--has love for all [including hindus who are said to be ``kafir``], yet people assign him tasks to love a certain group more. I`m sure he must`v mentioned somewhere that ``who the hell are you to decide who`s ``kafir`` and who`s not and who`s to go to hell/heaven``. I vaguely remember an example or two in my grade 6 islamiat course, in which the some non-muslims were sent to heaven
Afterall, we are all sons/daughters of adam/eve
RB
BJ, you did pretty well on post #30. I also found the article lacking some ``common sense`` concepts --and you`re right, the guy may be fearing something due to which he didn`t bother writing about em`
God --if one belives in him--has love for all [including hindus who are said to be ``kafir``], yet people assign him tasks to love a certain group more. I`m sure he must`v mentioned somewhere that ``who the hell are you to decide who`s ``kafir`` and who`s not and who`s to go to hell/heaven``. I vaguely remember an example or two in my grade 6 islamiat course, in which the some non-muslims were sent to heaven
Afterall, we are all sons/daughters of adam/eve
RB
#73 Posted by bjkumar on December 1, 2006 3:53:46 pm
#72 (add on)
For those who don`t already know it, here is a picture of the flying spaghetti monster.
The ``flying spaghetti`` part refers to his brain!
And the ``world`` he created is called the Land of the PURE, now!
The Flying Spaghetti Monster |
#72 Posted by bjkumar on December 1, 2006 3:38:57 pm
Omigawsh! Not the flying spaghetti monster!
Not again!
Before you know it the Gillster will jump from a high cliff or something!
Wait, this is a different board.
(relief)
Dr. Gill - whatever you do, don`t come this way! It`s BAD news here.
#71 Posted by arjun2 on December 1, 2006 2:51:38 pm
#70 by Urstruly on December 1, 2006 2:20pm PT
On the other hand, the proof that God exists,
And what proof do you have that the god that exists is the allah dude and not the flying spaghetti monster?
On the other hand, the proof that God exists,
And what proof do you have that the god that exists is the allah dude and not the flying spaghetti monster?
#70 Posted by Urstruly on December 1, 2006 2:20:33 pm
VRV
The other day I was looking at some engineering drawings and something struck to my mind in such an incredible way and I was so overwhelmed by it that it was hard for me to breath for a while. My eyes welled up with tears and it was impossible to hold them back. .All I wanted at the moment was to fall down on my knees and prostrate.
It was one tiny little fact that had stirred that hurricane of emotion. The fact was that a simple geometric figure, a straight line, is perceived by every human on this planet as a straight line. The perception of a straight line through our eyes and its interpretation by our brains as such is no simple task and yet the compatibility of this perception and interpretation by all humanity is just mind boggling. Is such compatibility even possible if were just a result of a cosmic accident? I think the most ridiculous idea that humans ever conceived is that the universe came into existence by itself.
What is the proof that a non-believer has for his belief that God does not exist, other than his parroting and ignorant insistence that God does not exist? On the other hand, the proof that God exists, is in every atom, every star, every galaxy, every organism, every human, every plant, every flower and everything that can be perceived through our five senses. Just open up your heart and you`ll see that even one simple straight line the shortest distance between two points will lead you to God.
The other day I was looking at some engineering drawings and something struck to my mind in such an incredible way and I was so overwhelmed by it that it was hard for me to breath for a while. My eyes welled up with tears and it was impossible to hold them back. .All I wanted at the moment was to fall down on my knees and prostrate.
It was one tiny little fact that had stirred that hurricane of emotion. The fact was that a simple geometric figure, a straight line, is perceived by every human on this planet as a straight line. The perception of a straight line through our eyes and its interpretation by our brains as such is no simple task and yet the compatibility of this perception and interpretation by all humanity is just mind boggling. Is such compatibility even possible if were just a result of a cosmic accident? I think the most ridiculous idea that humans ever conceived is that the universe came into existence by itself.
What is the proof that a non-believer has for his belief that God does not exist, other than his parroting and ignorant insistence that God does not exist? On the other hand, the proof that God exists, is in every atom, every star, every galaxy, every organism, every human, every plant, every flower and everything that can be perceived through our five senses. Just open up your heart and you`ll see that even one simple straight line the shortest distance between two points will lead you to God.
#69 Posted by VRV on December 1, 2006 12:15:37 pm
Re: # 68
Pl read this part as:
................
................
Therefore is`t not that GOD is a human`s creation OR a cultural construct personifying an an unknown entity/supernatural power?
I READ A LOT OF UR POSTS HERE DEFENDING GOD. I dont believe in god nor I deny his/her/unknown entity`s existence. I dont think that GOD defined in religious books exists. If the concept of GOD gives u peace I dont have any problem with that concept BUT if that concept compels me to collide with u, then I dont want that religion.
Your take please (I appreciate u not quoting religious books).
Pl read this part as:
................
................
Therefore is`t not that GOD is a human`s creation OR a cultural construct personifying an an unknown entity/supernatural power?
I READ A LOT OF UR POSTS HERE DEFENDING GOD. I dont believe in god nor I deny his/her/unknown entity`s existence. I dont think that GOD defined in religious books exists. If the concept of GOD gives u peace I dont have any problem with that concept BUT if that concept compels me to collide with u, then I dont want that religion.
Your take please (I appreciate u not quoting religious books).
#68 Posted by VRV on December 1, 2006 12:04:01 pm
Re: # 66
I have no objection to ur or anybody`s belief in any other religion. I read a lot of this kinda stuff by Muslims, Hindus and some by Christians.
I have a problem with believers. All belief systems demand unalloyed loyalty to the GOD (of the believer`s sect/religion). If u are not loyal, he/she wud screw u? Why a TRUE god wud screw u? This nature of GOD(s) appear to be human weakness/nature. If god (forget that it was mom and dad that give us life and sustain us) gives us life then why he acts like an unfriendly classmate/lass who demands ur friendship, loyalty & always craves for ur money and love? Even parents keep loving their offfsprings even when they ignore their parents. Is GOD of our thoughts is worse than human beings? Therefore is`t not that GOD is a human`s creation OR a cultural construct of an unknown entity/supernatural power?
I READ A LOT OF UR POSTS HERE DEFENDING GOD. I dont believe in god nor I deny his/her/unknown entity`s existence. I dont think that GOD defined in religious books exist. If the concept of GOD gives u peace I dont have any problem with that concept BUT if that concept compels u to collide with me, then I dont want that religion.
Your take please (I appreciate u not quoting a religious books).
I have no objection to ur or anybody`s belief in any other religion. I read a lot of this kinda stuff by Muslims, Hindus and some by Christians.
I have a problem with believers. All belief systems demand unalloyed loyalty to the GOD (of the believer`s sect/religion). If u are not loyal, he/she wud screw u? Why a TRUE god wud screw u? This nature of GOD(s) appear to be human weakness/nature. If god (forget that it was mom and dad that give us life and sustain us) gives us life then why he acts like an unfriendly classmate/lass who demands ur friendship, loyalty & always craves for ur money and love? Even parents keep loving their offfsprings even when they ignore their parents. Is GOD of our thoughts is worse than human beings? Therefore is`t not that GOD is a human`s creation OR a cultural construct of an unknown entity/supernatural power?
I READ A LOT OF UR POSTS HERE DEFENDING GOD. I dont believe in god nor I deny his/her/unknown entity`s existence. I dont think that GOD defined in religious books exist. If the concept of GOD gives u peace I dont have any problem with that concept BUT if that concept compels u to collide with me, then I dont want that religion.
Your take please (I appreciate u not quoting a religious books).
#67 Posted by bjkumar on December 1, 2006 11:29:39 am
#66
[the line between spiritual and temporal nature of Islam ]
Leave T-Bhai out of your pathetic discourse!
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