The IIT experience

Nabebendu`s article reads like a power point presentation. -)

Re; Saima Shah , I don`t think the IIT`s were built to solve all the problems of the century. They were built to create a bunch of people who would help industrialise India.

Plus I don`t think the IIT regimen is against thinkers. Pressure cooker situations are there in many good schools in the West too. However to some extent they do not have the same time pressures as most schools in Asia.

You cannot join any professional college in India for a graduate degree beyond a certain age (I think it used to be 21). You also have to clear your courses in a specific degree of time.

I think the biggest problem is the price our society puts on failure. To succeed as a creative thinker one must not be afraid to fail. All that is effectively drummed out of us at a very early age, the penalty for failure is too high.

And that starts very early in life, long before the IIT`s.

Unlike other places there is no social net to catch you if you fail. Your time runs out by the time you are in your early 20s.

The IIT`s are much better than many other colleges. There are a few creative thinkers that they have produced in the 50 net years of their existence.

``Five point someone`` succeeds because it`s funny. You can identify with teh lead characters, ``mediocre`` though they be.

This is just a sophomoric essay with no humour, no nostalgia, no sentiment at all. You may well have been writing an essay on ``The Cow`` (The cow has four legs. It eats grass. People everywhere except Hindus eat it, etc.)

BTW, the RECs (not RCEs) are now called NITs (National Insst of Technology)

Re: # 2
Babbu, i thought you would ignore reading the following response that i posted after your argument with tahmed on ``Indian Scholarships for Outstanding Pakistani Students``

Here it comes:

Re: # 140

Indian Scholarships for Outstanding Pakistani Students

I actually agree with both of u. Ballu and tahmed...First off: this longing friendship has to start in immaturity --turst my guys it takes LONG for someone to heartedly accept eachother even if one is at fault. Secondly, if not in immaturity than the mature minds (many times) take too long to learn. The leftover matures who are capable enough to bring about friendship will not make enough movement; thus, no major influence.

:) Hope this settles the argument.

PS. You guys fight like kids here. Let`s act mature hun. Pakistan/India are comparable only in very few terms > gota look at geographics too (Maturity needed to understand :D)

However, considering the current world-wide-muslim state, Pakistan is not doing too poorly as a developing country.

Overall, I certainly would appreciate some common sense being used.

RB

Re: # 17

>>>>There are a few creative thinkers that they have produced in the 50 net years of their existence. <<<<

I can name Arvind Gupta who is known for popularising science in India in an unconvetional way. Btw, he too toured Pakistan this year.

how about praful bidwai?

Re: # 21

Jang, is it? I dont know.

I met Mr. Gupta as a roommate at a Paris Youth Hostel. Though he came as India`s rep for a seminar in Paris (which makes him eligible to stay at a 5* hotel) he stayed in the Hostel as his daughter also came from another EU country to see him. I really didnt know then that my roommate was Arvind Gupta.

We spoke abt space science and abt my deep interest in astronomy till late midnight. I also told him abt Jayant Narlikar`s articles that inspired me as a kid. We spoke abt Indian science till late midnight. Next morning I saw his bag and baggage to be a collection of garbage from Indian streets. (Though I kept that opinion to myself). I must visit him at IUCAA at Pune, one of the several centres in Indian where study of astronomy is being conducted.

Later when I came back to London I found his name as a person touring Pakistan popularising Science education. Then I googled and I found a lot abt him. Inspite his age he`s the glint of a childish curiosity in simpler things, which he uses as tools to popularise science. He too studied in an IIT but didnt join the rat race for better jobs but stuck in writing books for children in vernaculars for popularising science. Great Soul.

VRV
There are people like Karmarkar, Netravali, George Varghese etc and quite a few more. I`m only looking at engineers. You might say they are there inspite of or because of the sytem.

Warrier,

I know of Karmaker of Bell labs and read abt his invetions. Read abt Netravali and George as well.

I also read of one IIT-B guy - a Kerala Catholic who got 800/800 in GRE but didnt go to the USA for masters. These IITians are performers but as u siad, IITs produced thinkers as well.

#24
Have a friend who was at IIT Bombay who actually after his BTech worked at Baba Amte`s ashram for quite a while setting up their administration etc. Bit off the beaten track that.

Warrier,

Altruistic reasons! Ditto Sanjay Pandey, an IITian, US-returned and a Magsaysay awardee.

#26

Sandeep (not Sanjay) Pandey of ASHA.

I bit too political to be altruistic (he gave up his magsasay award money because it was ``tinged`` with US money)

but one must respect a lot of what he has done.

whatever, but saima shas point is has IIT produced a thinker like say gandhi or prof. huntington or einstein or even amartya sen? the answer would be a no IMO. now narayan murthy is a doer..not thinker.

Bongdongs,

Thanks for the correction.

Jang,

There`s a clear diff between science and technology. Technology is supposed to solve technical problems whereas science is supposed to deal with thoughts and realities though inextricably linked with experimentation i.e. proper scientific process....

Technologists therefore cant produce a theorist for eg say theoretical physicist i.e by analogy a thinker of Einstein variety.

Re: # 28
Jang , stop your needling. IIT`s were not designed to produce economists, or peaceniks or photogenic men with bushy hair and moustaches. They were supposed to turn out engineers.
That they have produced people who do a lot of other things is their fault. -)

How many Einsteins did the Swiss Federal Polytechnic produce? They made him a good patent officer.

That way that Satya Sai Baba bloke is also a thinker. Dunno what he`s thinking of though. Maybe IIT should produce one of those types.

Re: # 10

Yes, Zeemax. Your question is harder to answer. To answer why IBA couldn`t make me into an Investment banker is: 1. My mother and my father who are very liberal 2. Ready access to Literature 3. Ghalib. Ghalib is a category on his own, apart from other poets. But IBA`s early grounding has supported me through my career and made subsequent academic forays fairly easy. I wish though that they had provided more lifeskills, philosophical grounding and attempted to at least discuss the moral questions and the big quandries facing industrialization. (Yet, business/tech schools seem to be quite afraid of discussing and introducing Ethics and philosophy). And while doing so, I wish they had been just a bit nicer to young people. It isn`t that I believe young people should not face hardship or reality. It is because I believe that when people lose trust in themselves that a crime to humanity is committed. Young people have very tender egos, over criticism damages their spirit and faith in themselves, always making it harder for them to do the right thing or think independently.

Re: # 17

Yes, I agree with you--it is true, my judgement is very harsh. But, the lens I am using is the current crisis of the industrial era. There are bigger things afoot then the industrialization of a country. I believe that there is a global crisis of knowledge. And one of the reasons is schools that completely annex the old economy out of the curriculum as though it is a useless waste of time. I am afraid that the values that industrialization teaches (yes, there are values) are environmentally and socially unsustainable. My opinion is that these schools produce the greatest do-ers, who don`t know what they are doing and why. Now, that is fine if one views people as capital and input. It isn`t fine, if we view people as the beneficiaries of an economic system.

Regards

Saima