Stagnating Pakistan-Iran Relations

#154 by tahmed32

tahmed, by Mochi/Lohari I meant Afghanistan/Iran ... and of-course you know what is meant by Gulberg i.e. a world apart USA. I think you missed something here ...

zeemax: lets see which analogy fits better with reality:

How many residents of mochi/lohari gate volunteer to clean the streets? as for this setting of fire by arsonists: do you seriously think that the US is the cause of Pakistan`s problems?

Do you think that they lack of cleanliness in public areas regardless of whether it is gulberg/liberty market or mochi/lohari gate is the responsibility of the US? Is the US responsible for the rude and insulting behavior towards domestic servants by the newly rich and even some not-so-newly rich, bonded labor, enslaved peasants in the sindh, the widespread abuse of Islam for personal gain by maulvis, pirs, and this new fashion of dars, the adding of injury to injury of poor women who have been raped and then put behind bars for admitting to being raped, the widespread poverty where young children with twisted feet spend their days in the burning sun hoping to earn enough to keep body and soul together, the lack of respect for rules and regulations and standardsby public servants from generals down to ministry staff, the lack of enforcement of regulations that cause roads to flood or even erode at the first monsoon rain???

Kindly review your model in light of the above realities, and see if you think it still makes sense.

#150 by tahmed32

Good attempt at the analogy. However try the following:

Suppose I live in Bhati gate Lahore. I earn a living, have a shelter if not a big house, I do the best I can to take care of the home and family members, and also take some time off to help clean up the neighborhood (Mochi Gate/Lohari Gate) a bit. But Mochi/Lohari are on fire by some arsonists which is spreading in my direction and I`m busy chatting with my friends in Gulberg about how a Liberty Market can be established in Bhati as well.

Howzzat?

Re: # 147 by tahmed32 on December 4, 2006 10:16am PT

Dear Tahmed Sahib:

No, Pakistani Baluchis would not care to join Iran as such. As you know, in the early 1970`s there was a huge element among the Baluch nationalists to side with the Soviets.

Respectfully submitted,

Pakistan has Indus river waters, nukes and a slightly more rational leadership than Iran.

The nukes and leadership thing could change in the future. Other than Iran has more things going for it - huge hydrocarbon reserves, even more strategic location, more educated populace, better identity, fairer skin etc.

Iran main interest is in dominating the Persian Gulf. Shite populations in Iraq, Kuwait, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia is a nice lever to achieve it. USA is the main force that can stop them.

Iran has huge amounts of oil and natural gas. At the current time Pakistan not have $$$ to buy from Iran. It prevents a mutually benefical trading relationship.

#149 I dont think so. here is an example of what taikonaut is saying.

suppose I live in bhaati gate lahore. first step would be to earn a living to make sure i have a home, then take time off to take care of the home and family members. then take some time off to clean up the neighborhood a bit. maybe help out an elderly or sick neighbor by buying groceries for them. if there is still time, then maybe volunteer time for some organization like red cross or as volunteer teacher for poor children. and so on.

how many people in bhaati gate (or in any other place in pakistan where they seem to think they know what is right and wrong around the world) do this?

#148 by tahmed32

I agree it is absurd, but isn`t this what taikonaut is saying?

#145 zeemax: lets see what makes complete sense to you by adding that last line you recommend:

Love your home,
love the street where your home is,
love the city where your street is,
love the state where your city is,
love the country where your state is
But hate your neighbours and love the Goras.

The last sentence makes the poem self-contradictory and absurd and would make sense only to someone who is totally confused. I hope for your sake that you are just trying to be humorous.

behram: i have heard baluch call for an independent baluchistan, but never heard any of them call for joining iran. have you?

Re: # 141 by taikonaut on December 4, 2006 4:49am PT

You have been a complete failure in activating any response against Iran, and it shows in most of these posts. The wahhabi element is quite obvious in your views. So just shoo away.

[the danger is always there. However Iran won`t touch Baloch issue for a while now. Iranians are executing, hanging, and torturing Balochis at a much higher level.]

Only if you can quantify what higher level you mean. Even during the Shah`s time elements in Baluchistan were not treated well, but my Baluch friends still would consider Iranians a whole lot better than the paindoos in Islamabad. Would you care to understand why?

#136 by taikonaut

Love your home,
love the street where your home is,
love the city where your street is,
love the state where your city is,
love the country where your state is.

Let me finish your jingoistically `simple` poem:

But hate your neighbours and love the Goras.

Now it makes complete sense.

Re: stuka # 139
That’s what sucks with muslims these days.

We always end up cowering the wrong person


Regards,

Faruk

Stuka: that is indeed a great injustice!! That ugly man the woman was with is ordered by the court to put on a veil!! :-)

#136 taikanout: that ``poem`` is worth repeating since it has badly needed wisdom that the islamist types (some of them on chowk) truly lack:

Love your home,
love the street where your home is,
love the city where your street is,
love the state where your city is,
love the country where your state is.

To bring this up-to-date in today`s world, I would only add: love the region thy country is in, and love the planet you live in (since this is the only one you have).


While this may sound like motherhood and applie pie, the fact is that it is this basic wisdom that too many grown up individuals never learnt (some chowkies should be able to recognize themselves here). One of the greatest strengths of America is indeed this kind of thinking is embedded in its traditions going back four hundred years!! It is truly heartening to see that this attitude is prevalent among so many pakistanis.

#140 by muqaddam on December 4, 2006 2:36am PT

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No border disputes as of now. Just wait for the citizens of of Pak-occupied Baluchistan to take their uprising to the next stage that is independence from Pakistan and reunification with Baluch territories of Iran and Afghanistan.

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Muqaddam sahib, the danger is always there. However Iran won`t touch Baloch issue for a while now. Iranians are executing, hanging, and torturing Balochis at a much higher level.

http://sarbaaz.com/news/viewtopic.php?t=223

Balochis in Iran are dirt poor even when Iran is an oil producing country.

p.s. Greater Balochistan is being discussed. However success rate for such an idea is pretty slim.

Re: # 125

No border disputes as of now. Just wait for the citizens of of Pak-occupied Baluchistan to take their uprising to the next stage that is independence from Pakistan and reunification with Baluch territories of Iran and Afghanistan.