Stagnating Pakistan-Iran Relations

Mr. Hasnat exhibits typical innocence so prevalent in the Mullah types of Pakistani Middle Class. He may be clean shaven, but these Madrasah statements are the same.

He wants to make a point favoring Iran, so he ignores and twists and turns his way through the logic akin to the great Houdini the magician.

Pakistan and Iran during Shah`s time were friends as they shared a secular and pro-West ideology. After the Mullahtic revolution, Iran took a suicidal turn. Mullahs killed their Iranian allies from Khalaq and Toodeh. The same Mullahs showed their true face to the West as well by crossing every line of civilized behavior by holding diplomats as hostages.

Pakistan got the brunt of this Mullah revolution when Quetta Shias got the weapons and money from their pompous extremist Mullahs in Tehran. The result was an utter destruction of Pakistani society`s sensitive fabric. Thanks to the money from Saudi and Irani Mullahs Pakistan became the battle ground between extreme Shia and Wahabi movements. If Saudis funded Lashkre Jhangvi, Iranians funded Pakistani-Shia organizations.

All that Islamic brother hood went out of the window, and both Shias and Sunnis suffered gravely. Shias being minority suffered more for obvious reasons. Had it not been the strong control of Pak army and police, our situation would have been no different from Iraq. We would have the same Shia-Sunni massacres.

Ultimately the blame goes squarely in the lap of Pakistani Shias and Sunnis. They are the ones who became more loyal to outside Mullahs while ignoring their home, their country.

Ignoring all that and beating the drum of Taliban is simply myopic. Our issues and hatred with Iran are mutual. Anyone propagating Iranian brotherhood has probably gotten his head buried deep in the sand.

Secular Pakistan and Mullah Iran can never be friends. The best we can get out of this is a relatively peaceful neighborhood but never a brotherhood. And I do not have any hope of Iran ever getting out of the iron-grip of Ayatullahs.

during the 1965 war the iranians allowed pakistan to land planes in iran thus giving them greater flexibility of operation, as i hear. (heresay, not corroborated assertion, i hasten to add).

the shah, miserable little king though he was, was nevertheless a good friend of pakistan. that seems to be definitely true.

Re: # 2 tahmad

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during the 1965 war the iranians allowed pakistan to land planes in iran thus

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Correction! It was 1971 that Iran promised to provide landing facility for ``injured`` PAF planes.

In 1965 we kicked IAF behind so we didn`t need any help from Iran.

But in 1971 IAF returned the favor and then some so the Shah (and not Ayatullahs) offered help.

However please note that landing facilities for injured planes is not the same as allowing someone to use your bases. Those type of favors are reserved for very close allies such as Pakistan and USA.

This is how it all started:

Early History

The northwest of the Indian subcontinent, which now constitutes Pakistan, lies athwart the historic invasion routes through the Khyber, Gumal, and Bolan passes from central Asia to the heartland of India, and for thousands of years invaders and adventurers swept down upon the settlements there. The Indus valley civilization, which flourished until c.1500 BC, was one of the region`s earliest civilizations. The Aryans, who surpassed the Indus, were followed by the Persians of the Achaemenid empire, who by c.500 BC reached the Indus River. Alexander the Great, conqueror of the Persian empire, invaded the Punjab in 326 BC The Seleucid empire, heir to Alexander`s Indian conquest, was checked by the Mauryas, who by 305 BC occupied the Indus plain and much of Afghanistan.

After the fall of the Mauryas (2d cent. BC) the Indo-Greek Bactrian kingdom rose to power, but was in turn overrun (c.97 BC) by Scythian nomads called Saka and then by the Parthians (c.AD 7). The Parthians, of Persian stock, were replaced by the Kushans; the Kushan Kanishka ruled (2d cent. AD) all of what is now Pakistan from his capital at Peshawar. In 712, the Muslim Arabs appeared in force and conquered Sind, and by 900 they controlled most of NW India. They were followed by the Ghaznavid and Ghorid Turks. The first Turki invaders reached Bengal c.1200 and an important Muslim center was established there, principally through conversion of the Hindus. Although the northeast of the Indian subcontinent (now Bangladesh) remained, with interruptions, part of a united Mughal empire in India from the early 16th cent. to 1857, the northwest changed hands many times before it became (1857) part of imperial British India. It was overrun by Persians in the late 1730s; by the Afghans, who held Sind and the Punjab during the latter half of the 18th cent.; and by the Sikhs, who rose to power in the Punjab under Ranjit Singh (1780–1839).

And of course if you want to read any further, here is the link for your reading pleasure
Why should the wahabis be allowed to mess with the Pakistanis? Huh?

Pakistan is sailing in two boats.

Choose, Either USA or Iran. If, continues like that will soon drown.

Re: # 5 Zeena sez

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Choose, Either USA or Iran. If, continues like that will soon drown.

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Dude! (or dudet! whoever you are).

Iran is a pipsqueak little kid playing with matchstick these days. Thanks to Ayatullahs Iran`s economy is in the gutter even if the oil gushes out of Shattal Arab.

Iran`s budget $30 billion (Ayatullah controlled gutter economy even when there is oil)
American $2500 billion (oil + technology)
Pakistan`s $20 billion (free market service economy growing at a rapid rate)

With US and EU market Pakistan can beat Iran in 3 years.

So in this neighborhood if anyone is going down that has to be the Mullahs of Iran. I feel so sorry for the people of Iran. They are going to pay for the naughty Mullahs.

Good article. Raises very pertinent questions. Iranians are Pak`s natural allies, and the rift began with sectarian troubles in Pak during Zina ul Haq`s time and exacerbated with Taliban in power.

However there is tremendous goodwill between the peoples of the two countries, and Pak must make amends in its foreign policy to accomodate the Iranian stance in world affairs, which it has completely ignored in blind subservience to US interests since a few decades.

#3 taikonout: thanks for clarifying this thing i vaguely remembered having heard about.

Re: # 2

You are absolutely right in your observation, that Iran did provide help to Pakistan during 1965 war. It was found out and India protested strongly. I recall reading that in the newspaper.

Again this little Shah was a magalomaniac and imagined himself the descendent of Darius, the Great.! In one of the interviews with CBS`s `Sixty Minute`` show he boasted that Persians are `Brown Eyed Europeans``. I saw that interview. Does any one remember that he spent $ 200 millions for his coronation and took the crown and crowned himself during that event. Poor son of a colonel Shah imagined himself to be a great Shah of Iran.

Kamath

re: #7 by zeemax on December 2, 2006 0:53am PT

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1. Iranians are Pak`s natural allies, and
2. the rift began with sectarian troubles in Pak during Zina ul Haq`s time and exacerbated with Taliban in power.

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#1- Iranian Shia-ism is only good for schisms. They are no ``natural allies`` of anyone.
#2- People who blame Zia for sectarian troubles are looking at just one side of the picture. Pakistan was already struggling against Soviets so we didn`t need to open any other front. It was the other way around. In the post-1979 era both India and Iran took advantage of Pakistan being busy against communism. India took Siachin, and Iranian Ayatullahs thought to use their petro-dollars for ``Shia-izing`` Pakistan.

It was Iran who originally funded and armed Balochi Shias. Pakistani society was too busy and too fragile so this allowed Saudis to fund anti-Shia organizations. However Ayatullahs cast the first stone.


Summary: There is no way a secular or a Wahabi Pakistan could ever fit in Iranian schemes. Iran being an extremist Shia-religious state is a danger to the region as well as to the whole world.

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re: #8 by tahmed32 on December 2, 2006 4:42am PT
#3 taikonout: thanks for clarifying this thing i vaguely remembered having heard about.

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You are welcome. Please note that in 1965 or 1971 wars, Shah of Iran would have supported a little bit. Not so much out of brotherhood but being a pro-West secularist.

Pakistani analysts are fool if they think any brother hood (Iranian or not) will hold good for Pakistan. A secular-Christian USA is the biggest market for Pakistan, and the biggest source of funding. Whereas a extremist Iran will always be a danger just like an extremist India.


Thank you.

pakistan iran policy is designed by the under-secy grade 15 at south-asia desk somewhere in NW DC.

#3 by taikonaut on December 1, 2006 8:03pm PT


same as allowing someone to use your bases. Those type of favors are reserved for very close allies such as Pakistan and USA.


or for countries who force you to bend over under the threat of bombing you to the stone age..

almost all the iranians I know in the US(or persians as they call themselves) don`t really like pakis...

neither do afghans for that matter..

Re: # 12

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or for countries who force you to bend over under the threat of bombing you to the stone age..

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Bending over is done by all those who are milking the West for few $$. You think Chinese are not bending over backwards to get more Walmart contracts?

Walmart can easily take their business to India today if Chinese don`t bend over.

Ge will take their call center to Phillipines today if Indians don`t bend over.

GE, Walmart, or other US entities use carrot and sticks all the time. Tom Friedman said it was not General Powell but General Electric that forced India to bend over.

One notice from State department and the whole NASCOM was crying and kissing Ar$es.

So keep these bending over lectures to you Indians, the epitomes of ``non-violence``. hahah.

Pakistan`s relations with Iran started deteriorating when the semi-literate generals of Pakistan Army sold Pakistan`s soul to the uncultured Wahabbi bedouins of Arabia. Creating, financing and supporting the Taliban was the final nail in the coffin.

Persian culture and literature, the traditional inspiration for educated people of North India, has given way to the beards, abayas, jilbabs and hijabs of the Wahabbi savages. What a sad fall!

Re: # 13 Arjun sez

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almost all the iranians I know in the US(or persians as they call themselves) don`t really like pakis..

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Ask an American software developer how he feels about Bindi potatoes, and he will have choice words too.

Ask an Australian bank worker about a smelly Bindi, and you would surely hear all the loathing and 4 letter worlds.


As human beings, we like or dislike those who threaten our way of life. Iranian and Afghanis commies will love Bindi commies and hate Pakistani free-marketers. It is than simple.