Swearing-in Ceremony with Hand on the Bible?

Re: # 532 by Sattar2

[And where in Islam did you come up with the notion of punishing a person who claims to be a Muslim?]

I did not come with that notion --it already exists.

[do note that Ahmadi-Muslims fully believe in Quran, articles of faith in Islam, and truthfulness and prophethood of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). How can you justifiably consider them non-Muslims? I don’t necessarily need an answer from you … this is supposed to make you think and question your own views.]

As I said, being a Muslim is not a mediocre thing. Believing in the last Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) is a crutial part of being a Muslim. Oh and you bet Ahmadis practise their stream well --Very organized too. I have no comments on if it was good or bad to kick out Ahmadis.

Again, I`m not a religion fan who`s going to decide who is Muslim as, yes, God does ask you to stop wandering about who the hell is the real Momin and who`s not --resulting in hell/heaven decision: they are his to make.

I``m not claiming to be a shia/sunni/ahmadi either :)

Re: # 533

The #520, is not an argument, it is a face-save. What I asked you in my post before 520 was to show me the explicit edicts in Quran that stipulate the method of offering prayers and not the timings of Namaz.

So what you are essentially saying is that if, as per Quadiani religion, I hang up side down from a tree five times a day and call it a Namaz I would be consistent with the teachings of Quran - right?

Urstruly (#530),

I posted a long series of arguments in #520 on which you remain silent. It is you who is intellectually lost.

You earlier cited unanimous support among ullema to validate your views. In #524 I underscored collective intellectual decline of your ullema. Fools are usually united in their foolishness … so your point remains invalid.

For example, Jewish scholars in the days of Jesus were also in agreement that Jesus should be crucified. There are good reasons why Quran and Bible give such accounts. What does this tell you about unanimity among corrupt ullema?

As another example, one may also argue that White House, CIA, Pentagon too were collectively united on war on Iraq. Recall the ``coalition of the willing``. What does it all mean anyway?

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And before you go too far, check with Naqshbandi ... who now thinks it unfair to kill people for apostasy. And he has his own list of Muslim scholars to support his view. Your blanket statements have way too many holes ... so give me a break ...

I’ll point to my post #520 for now and let you think things over. Try to come back to Quran ... if you still remember what Quran is ...

Raziab (#526),

Read your post #522 again. You seem to be suggesting that Ahamdis claim to be Muslims while in reality they are not, and that this explains why they are punished according to Islamic law.

While we are discussing Islam, do note that Ahmadi-Muslims fully believe in Quran, articles of faith in Islam, and truthfulness and prophethood of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). How can you justifiably consider them non-Muslims? I don’t necessarily need an answer from you … this is supposed to make you think and question your own views.

Furthermore, declaring someone non-Muslim goes against the message of Quran. In Quran Allah Himself uses the term Muslim for believers, without granting anyone any right to declare a person otherwise.

And where in Islam did you come up with the notion of punishing a person who claims to be a Muslim?

Your ideas are not offensive … they are senseless. Like I wrote earlier, when a person is persecuted for declaring his faith in Allah, it is because people against him are lowly rascals. Lives of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and early Muslims are grim reminders of such travesty. Same travesty is unfolding against Ahmadi-Muslims in this day and age.

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And if you don’t know who wants to kill apostates, you need to pay more attention. Urstruly, ntsyed are but a few examples, right here on chowk. Your issue is with the ummah and not with Ahmadi-Muslims.

Fanaticism and violent tendencies displayed by ummah and their leaders are very much responsible for secterian and religious violence we see every day. And that`s the point I am making here ...

Check out the latest medal list at the Asian Games -

http://www.dohaasiangames.org/gis/menuroot/medals/InfoMedal.aspx

India has 9 Gold, 18 silver and 24 bronze for a total of 51 medals for an overall rank of 6th.

Pakistan has 1 silver, 2 bronze for a grand total of 3 medals and an ovrerall rank of 29th.