India, Pakistan and the Kashmir dispute

It is actually quite sad when I see Pakistanis who feel they have the right to talk about Kashmir and represent Pakistan when they don`t even understand what their religion expects of them. They call themselves `Men`. I`m not a romantic and don`t think that the actual underlying reason for the formation of Pakistan was the Hindu/Islamic divide (though our corrupt politicians do insist that was the reason and not their greed) I still believe that the concept was sound. If it wasn`t for our religious differences, then really how do you justify the existence of the border. As I have said in my very first post (#198), the border is there to give the Hindu Muslim communities a breathing space and look at each other from an arm`s length rather than getting into each others face. Can you imagine the whole of Pakistan being one big issue like Kashmir is today?

People like hamidm2 and tahmed obviously can`t see that. They actually stand to prove to the other religions that Muslims are intolerant, Pakistanis are a bunch of lunatics and that we are a bunch of selfish arrogant egotistical morons. Believe me when I say this, there are people in Pakistan who are concerned about the Kashmiris and don`t look at Kashmir as a vacation spot or a piece of land.

As for tahmed trying to be the judge and jury on my argument with hamidm2, it was hamidm2 who misinterpreted my post. The only place where I mentioned hamidm2 in #263 was as an example of the sort of people who get agitated if we, as Muslims, back down and make it an issue with their ego (which clearly fits hamidm2 very well). I never told him to go and adopt a Kashmiri. I was just telling the pakistanis in general reading this forum that the day we become that tolerant to our own Muslim brothers, this problem can solve itself.

We can`t be perfect but perfection must be strived for in order to achieve excellence. I know being that tolerant is clearly dreaming too much, but moving in that direction will go a long way towards improving the state of our country. We clearly can`t allow this to go on too long as both Paksitan and Kashmir are under the risk of being perished. And the statement about earning brownie points was more of a question: what the hell are you numb nuts really trying to achieve in this forum, because your insulting tirades are absolutely useless and you`re digressing from the actual issue here. Have we heard one sound reasoning from you guys, have we heard one suggestion about which direction the two countries should take, anything???? What have you guys achieved so far from this forum other than convincing the rest of the world that what they think about the Muslims and Pakistanis was actually right all along!

#281

[I guess I did react a bit strongly]

Yes sir, you did. Even a person in your age group, with countless aeons of experience in dealing with people - especially as regards telling people sometimes titillating and sometimes merely tall tales on what to tell - can learn a lesson in temperance. Truly, you could learn a lot by spending more time reading my principled and tempered responses, like the Pakistanis claim to have been following in all matters related to Kashmir - my responses which I always temper even in response to the greatest of provocations - to Mr. Hamdani, one of the choicest of beneficiaries.

hamidm: I guess I did react a bit strongly to what anil wrote, since upon re-reading his post I see he was referring to Pakistan as being an ``extremist cancer stricken place``, and he does later clarify when he says ``Yes, I do believe terrorism of any kind, wherever it exists, and yes including in Pakistan, is a cancer to the fabric of that society. I also believe and have said so that caste and communal hatred in India is a cancer in India`s fabric and must be eradicated.``

These are indeed the bitter facts of the subcontinent, hard though it may be to hear for a pakistani if they come from an indian, and vice versa.

Sorry anil, for unfairly stretching what you wrote about extremist elements to Pakistan as a nation. As I said before, regardless of our differences of opinion (and/or misunderstandings) on chowk sometimes, I wish you good health and all the best in real life. Cheers. :-)

#278 sadna - there`s also the fact that the older generation, regardless of nationality, is more sexist - look at harimau.

#275 And no thanks to you for helping to elect the worst president in US history. He`s also proving to be dangerous to global climate. I hope you`ll repent and vote for Al Gore `08 even if it means detroit will become more of a 3rd world city.

#276
In my years on chowk I have found that hamidm2 is a self righteous twit too right up there with tahmed32. They belong to a Pak generation which expects Indians to respond to their `deserved talking down to the less civilised` with self-deprecating and feel-good brotherhood statements and they don`t know what the hell to do with Indians who talk back.

#275 hamidm2
Who knows whether india and pak are going to be around in a few decades to fight over kashmir or anything else. Glaciers are disappearing and the dal lake would be gone. Merry Christmas!

PS: you must have some well-traveled kashmiri peddlers in rawalpindi who must have been to lake geneva..

#273 mullahji, I don`t think you are obtuse or reading challenged. You are just a self-righteous twit (thanks hamidm2!) who assumes the worst about ``hindus.``

Merry christmas!

Re: # 273


tahmed,

.......... i think you are being unduly harsh with anil ...... i would give him the benefit of doubt and accept the explanation that he was referring to the jihadists being the `cancer` in pakistan - and he is right ........... unlike some other indians on this forum, like frau sadna and wunderknabe arjun, he does not seem to suffer from a pathological hatred for pakistan

........... merry christmas to both you and anil mian

p.s. if i thought my giving up on kashmir would actually bring `peace on earth` i would, but then there is darfur, iraq, sri lanka, mizoram, nagaland and gujarat ........

#267, #271

Saadm sahib,

Abhie na jaa-o chhoad kar, ki dil abhieeee bharaa nahin!

Please pay no attention to the likes of Hamidm2 and Tahmed who just don`t have your level of deep understanding of the religion which our (US) president so eloquently, never-tiringly praises as the religion of peas and has been doing so forever.

These folks just don`t have the right sensitivity! Or culture!

Hang in there, please. I solemnly promise to help you make thse guys see the true light!

anil: i have nothing more to add beyond what i already told you given that you have failed to acknowledge the basic point I made - that calling Pakistan a ``cancer`` clearly indicates your antipathy towards the very existence of Pakistan and contradicts your other assertions. If bringing this to your attention insults you, while your calling an entire nation a ``cancer`` is OK with you, then you have a twisted set of values.

sadmd: your heart is in the right place (i.e. in calls for peace and and in the respectful manner in which you refer to people of other communities, hindus in this case). However your brain needs some oiling so it can do what a brain is supposed to do - think rationally.

So, let me try to get your brain functioning: Lesson 1 - stick to what someone said, dont make up your own story of what someone said.

You failed on Lesson 1, and consquently Hamidm nailed you to the wall in #268 when he asked you ... and who is talking about accomodating kashmiris in our homes ? and again
and nobody is trying to earn ``brownie points with Allah (SWT) by insulting the Hindus``. Hamidm trying to win brownie points with Allah - ha! ha!

I would waste more time pointing out other stuff that you made up, but the fact that you failed to honestly respond to hamidm`s points and instead ``signed out`` tells me that you lack the pre-requisites even for lesson 1, namely being able to write in a responsible manner like a man.

So, bye bye.

Hamidm2: well it surprises me that you feel I have dragged religion into it. I am trying to separate the position of Islam from the position of those very fools who hijacked the movement as you said. What concerns me is how my religion gets tainted everytime a bomb explodes anywhere in the world (even if it is by a Muslim or not). As for your personal beliefs and ambitions about Kashmir, I would suggest you go to Kashmir now and drown yourself in the Dal Lake for all I care. You don`t need to take over the land, unless your ego tells you that`s the way to go about it. I would suggest the Hindus to help him to whatever extent they possibly can as it would be the first cooperative act that will go a long way to achieving peace. I am glad you have finally shown your true colours to the world to see. Signing out.

#260 by Mantolives on December 24, 2006 0:52am PT


The author forgets that the statement that came out of the foreign office was that Pakistan had never claimed Kashmir to be an integral part of Pakistan.


And the fox released a statement that he was on the atkins diet and wasn`t really after the grapes...

Re: # 266

bj,

...... actually you are closer to the truth than you think ! .............. half the kitchen help in pakistan is made up of biharis and the other half is afghanis - it seems that poor personal hygiene is an essential qualification for domestic help .........

..... merry christmas and don`t worry about kashmir - you are not about to loose it any time soon

Re: # 263

the chowk takes another hit !

saadmd,

shame on you for dragging religion into this territorial dispute ! ............. the whole problem started when wild-eyed bearded real muslims shouting al-lah o` akbar hijacked the kashmiri liberation movement giving non-believer muslims a bad name and severe heartburn ..........

and nobody is trying to earn ``brownie points with Allah (SWT) by insulting the Hindus`` ....... heck as far as i am concerned al-lah, swt or no swt, is a horrid bedouin deity who has caused more trouble than the six-armed lady who eats little children for breakfast ........ the sooner he is locked up in the kaaba with his daughters and other family and friends, the better off we would be ............

...... and who is talking about accomodating kashmiris in our homes ? ........ we want to be guests in their homes in sirinagar and go for a boat ride on dal lake - every kashmiri i know, selling cheap wooden boxes and fake pashminas on canning road, claims to have an uncle who has a mansion on dal lake which, according to them, is more beautiful than lake geneva ............. i am curious, but once we get kashmir and don`t like it, we will give it back to the horrible hindoos so that they can float their elepant-nosed gods on it ...........

............ we have enough idiots on this forum and you are welcome to stay, but it is obvious that you will be subtracting from the already meager collective iq of this crowd of twits and dimwits .................