India, Pakistan and the Kashmir dispute

Re: # 404 nasah

``#404 by nasah on December 27, 2006 2:14pm PT
If in India 150 million Muslims can live -- so can 6 million Kashmiri Muslims -- plus no `Islami Hukoomat` in Indian Kashmir -- take it or leave it.``

And take it we will...with you in it.

Of course, we`ll make an exception for you to leave it if you promise to behave yourself

;-)~~

Re: # 403 mohar11

``...if kashmir is lost, that means jihad has own...``

You`re not paranoid for nothing. Please don`t take it the wrong way, I do appreciate your fear, which forced you use lowercase `if` in that statement. It demonstrates your agreement that now it`s not a matter of `if` but `when`.

:-)~~

Re: # 402 tahmed32

Hey tahmed,

What you say requires everyone to be absolutely honest and truthful.

Can you accept the mother of all truths, as per The Quran you claim to believe in, that you were created for nothing but to worship Allah?

Can your enlightened forward thinking not worry about your empty rhetorical secularist bhashans for a minute or so and muster an honest answer to that?

:-)~~

Re: # 401 arjun2

funny....lol....

Bubba, many a times you`ve said you want Muslims to live in the present and future. Well, dear boy, THIS is the present mode of warfare - a few thousand jihadis keeping 700,000 well armed Hindian soldiers busy with covering each others behind...

Of course, the easier option for you is to reverse your condition: no frisking no jihadi. I`m all for that

:-)~~

Re: # 392 by hamidm2

Oh don`t worry hamidm, arjun`s ilk has just enough heart as we`d like them to have:

# 387 arjun2

``Is this the part where I`m supposed to be all scared and quake in my boots at the inevitable prospect of a 100% ntsyed-certified islamic state of Pakiland taking over Indian Kashmir....?``

He may sound sarcastic, but the pinpoint accuracy of how he`s to behave is very telling.


arjun,

Yes! If you proved it to be part of your religion, then you will be allowed to smoke your life away.

:-)~~

Dear Mantolives:

It shouldn`t surprise you that I am in basic agreement with what you say. There most certainly was a complexity of factors involved. My own personal opinion is that, more than anything else, it was a game of chess played by three or four key players in which people`s religious feelings and identities were mercelessly manipulated by all sides, starting with our very own Mahatma.

That said, I think that my generalisation is still valid. No two situations are identical and there were many differences between the Israeli and Pakistani movements; and yet these are the only two countries in modern history which have been created in the name of religious identities. I hope you wont dispute the fact that Pakistan was created in the name of all Muslims from Khyber Pass to Cape Camorin, and not just for those living in the area which eventually became Pakistan.

INHERITED FACTS:

British India became self-ruled as Queen forsook her role as Empress of India, of course with a price to Indians themsleves as it was evident in the politics of Muslim League leading to partition at knife-point regradless of colossal cost of human lives staring in the face. The face of India was splashed with blood of innocents. It was a different kinda Holi for Indians who otherwise use gulal to celebrate.

It didnt happento Jinnah - the ripe fruit falling in his lap - Kashmir ruler had his own independent plans. Pakistan wanted to GRAB the fruit by force. The gardener Hari Singh sought our help and we PUT a CONDITION of aceession, which the Raja acceded to.

EVENTS MOULDED BY US:

Pakistan screamed, cried fowl and put blinkers to her subjects that Kashmir was occupied by India. Travesty of truth! It`s Pakistan which tried to occupy it & was stopped in tracks, hence this stalemate as there`s no middleman like the British masters.

India kept the piece of Kashmir inherited to her intactthough Pakistan managed ethnic cleansing, whereas Pakistan bartered it with China with her own piece of Kashmir. Not a soul outside Kashmir can buy a property or settle there in Indian Kashmir - a solemn promise to keep the pristine landscape and culture of Kashmir which also means keeping the demographic profile intact.

Pakistan? Kashmir under control became Punjabised and Kashmir became K`shmeer. I really dont know why Bhutto was hanged but he was the guy who agreed to sidetrack UN resolutions on Kashmir and resolve the issue bilaterally with India.

Theree generations of Pakistanis were reared with blinkers on and many believe that India occupied Kashmir!! In Pakistan History is always used as atta i.e moulded as per whims and fancies of rulers.

Having seen the acts of Pakistan in Afghanistan and elsewhere (jihad in India and Indian Kashmir), it`d be unwise to go to Pak`s level of understanding of the truths i.e India doesnt exist, TNT, Muslims ruled India, Hindus are good as slaves etc., and barter Kashmir with them.

As I saw it till now India had no long-term strategy. Just watch! Cruel Indira Gandhi played with fire - as she did in Punjab, Sri Lanka - by appointing RSS acolytes as Governors and dismissed elected governments. Now with saner people in power, we have some calm...

Kashmir is an endless agony....I dont know why religion shud be THE point here. There are no curbs on religion in Kashmir nor elsewhere in India. Why cant these people be allowed to live in peace?

If in India 150 million Muslims can live -- so can 6 million Kashmiri Muslims -- plus no `Islami Hukoomat` in Indian Kashmir -- take it or leave it.

Re: # 400

OK - may be we should recognize them as internally displaced persons and provide relief in some ways... but that`s besides the point...

The fight in kashmir is a fight against islamists, above all else... if kashmir is lost, that means jihad has own... it`s a victory that you, of all people, will come regret the most - you as an american and as a secular paki - you will be their next target... Under no circumstances, islamists can be allowed win anything, anywhere...

So - we are actually doing you a favor by keeping kashmir bottled up, while you are shooting yourself in the foot by shedding crocodile tears about ``searching and frisking``...

+++

Good news is that - ethiopia [of all countries] has shown the way how to deal with islamists... poor, impoverished as it may be, ethiopians have kicked the islamist butts back to their bases and have restored a sense of balance there... where as the americans ran off like chicken after a few soldiers were killed - thus providing a much needed victory to islamists... rest, as they say, is history - bloody, violent history of rise of jihad from ashes of two burnt blackhawk choppers....

kashmir is another frontier on fight against evil of islamism... don`t, for a second, forget that... and thank hinuds for doing the good work ..... no matter how hard they tried, jihadis never won nothing, or controlled a single square inch of land in kashmir, in last 15 years of bloody jihad...

Thank hinuds again for doing the good work... and ethiopeans too... where the bigshot americans are turning tail and running away like losers, it`s people like us who are making a stand and fighting against jihadis... for us and for you...

Live, Learn, be grateful.... and stop being f****ing moron...

#395 dost mittar: just to complete what i was saying there, what is relevant is not the past but the future. and for the future, the relevant question is - what is best for the world that we will leave behind a few decades from now? and in that context, what is best is clearly a society based on some generally accepted principles - principles that have been as ably and concisely stated in the Preamble to the US Constitution as anywhere else: We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

We had a discussion on this on the Hoodbhoy board, btw. Such a forward looking approach that includes the ``Blessings of Liberty`` for the individual, as reconciled with the ``General Welfare`` makes far more sense, since there is no empty rhetoric of religion behind which unscruplous individuals disguise their self-serving goals.

#396 by hamidm2 on December 27, 2006 7:57am PT

no jihadis no frisking...

if you pakis had the testicular fortitude to fight a straight war there would be no need for frisking and other counter-insurgency measures..

Funny how pakis condone the actions of the jihadis who can only attack because they hide among civilians and yet when the other side does the logical thing in such a situation, they are full of moral outrage..

Re: # 396

mohar mian,

you say: ``very few kashmiris have left kashmir``

but the report says: ``The conflicts have also led to displacement of Kashmiri Hindu or Pundits from Kashmir Valley. In addition to the displaced Hindus, a sizeable Muslim population has chosen to leave the Valley and the state to escape the consequences of the conflict. They are, however, not recognized by the State as displaced persons.``

........ if you don`t recognize them as displaced people does not mean that they are not displaced ..........

effing typo:

Something wrong with ur psychology. U are a straight-faced pervert with blinkers piling one upon the other and u pile one banality upon other in ur ilogs simulteneosuly??

What a life!

Re: # 386

My Friend, U think it got my chin.....far from it. I am hapy that u concentrate on ur own welfare than demanding from India.

Something wrong with ur psychology. U are a straight-faced pervert with blinkers piling one upon the other and u pile one banality upon others on ur ilogs simulteneosuly??

What a life!

Re: # 396

Searching and frisking doesn`t indicate ``sexual violence``... that`s ``normal`` part of security operation... I am not saying the indians didn`t do it - just want to get a clear picture - which the report fails to provide, for whatever reasons...

we see there is a lot that has gone wrong in kashmir: jihad, enthnic cleansing, security crackdown, civil rights violations... it`s all connected... we don`t pick and choose one part of it...
++++

That said - americans have done a lot wrong in iraq too... I haven`t seen you saying anything about it... thousands dead, rapes, torture, abu ghraib, wanton destruction of infrastructure, properties, art, museums...

Kashmir is almost a picnic compared what you americans have done in iraq... 60,000 dead in kashmir over 15 years of insurgency/jihad.... 100,000 dead in iraq in just 3 years... very few kashmiris have left kashmir, 5 million iraqis have left iraq at last count... all said and done - thousand attacks donot happen each week in kashmir, kashmir has more tourists now than entire pakiland combined... we can go on and on...

So Be careful where you shed your crocodile tears - it may be comeback to bite you... :)

Re: # 394

mohar mian,

the report did say:

``The 30-page report says that almost 99.2 percent of people reported having confronted crackdowns and search operations between 1989 and 2005. Some 85.7 percent reported being frisked by security forces.``

......... i think it is quite obvious who did the bulk of the sexual violence too, but i am sure there was some violence from the other side as well, specially against the non-muslim population ......... in any case, it is sad that you folks don`t see anything wrong with it ......