India, Pakistan and the Kashmir dispute

#192 ylh: Is a fat nazi worse than a thin nazi?

Re: # 182

dost-mittar,

``They were not affected when Hindus and Sikhs were killed and ethnically cleansed from their homes``

.......... on behalf of my father`s generation i apologize for the injustice done to your people .......... but it is rather strange that my mother-in-law never talks about how her family was pushed out of some village in east punjab .......... this summer, after twenty years of knowing her, was the first time i heard about her harrowing experience as a young girl fleeing with her mother and two sisters while her father stayed behind hoping to save his house - he never made it to pakistan ............

......... most pakis have moved on and it is time you indians also accepted the reality of partition and got on with your lives instead of dreaming of a united hindoo india that existed in chandra gupta maurya`s time - a lot of water (and blood) has flown under the bridge since then .............. and kashmir is unfinished business from partition that has to be settled - just because india refuses to recoginize the problem won`t make it go away ................

#194

[…it is rather strange that my mother-in-law never talks about how her family was pushed out of some village in east Punjab…]

Don’t act too self-righteous about it, my man! Your mother-in-law does not talk about that dreadful experience following partition because the man who single-handedly brought the calamity of partition around – the vamp himself – was the object of her affection and undying love and you guys were doing your daily poojas of the vamp’s picture, thanking him daily for getting you off the clutches of the “evil Hindoos” – and if your great grand mother-in-law was anything like the Manto – probably taking the vamp’s picture to bed also for stimulation and increased inside-bed gratification level!

There is no fool like an old fool! So how old are you, mian?!

Re: # 195


bj,

...... let`s not drag poor jinnah into it and please don`t start posting pictures of naked men again ! ......... i just had breakfast

.......... personally i am thankful to mister jinnah for making sure that i didn`t have to grow up with you as a neighbor ......... on the other hand, maybe if you and i had grown up together i could have beat some sense into you and you would have been a better man now ...... i know, i know, there is urstruly !

hamidm:

You misinterpreted my post. The point of it was not to recall the horrors of partition but to show that the Islamisation of Pakistan did not happen abruptly under Zia but was, instead, a slow and steady movement, which was not opposed by the elite until it touched them personally and to support my original point that Musharraf is the first ruler who is trying to reverse this process; indeed it continued right up to Nawaz Sharif`s time who wanted to be the first Amir-ul-Musalmeen.

As for akhand bharat, only some fools, including some Mohajirs on your side, dream about it. The best we can hope for is for the two counries to live as good, normal neighbours.

[I did not mention the equally horrible genocide of Muslims in East Punjab precisely because the point was not the Partition killing but the islamisation of your country].

To bjkumar. All you have proved in your worthless replies is your ability to swear and insult people. You think you can solve all the problems with your `witty` little remarks and `sense of humour` with an added whiff of a mother-in-law joke. You can`t even handle a class full of turtles as they will just walk away from you after growing tired of your endless tirade.
Here`s a common argument among the Indian folks: there was no need for a partition and the border was absolutely unnecessary (hence Jinnah is a villain). If you ask me, I feel a lot better that there is a border between the extremist elements in Pakistan AND India (yes, contrary to bjkumar`s assertions, there are extremist elements among the Hindus as well in India). Now imagine the problem in Kashmir, but only much bigger (think the size of Pakistan). That`s what the border has given us, a breathing space, for the two people/nations to separate and look at each other at an arm`s length and then hopefully one day learn to compromise.

dost mittar: between you and hamidm, you are having about as intelligent a discussion as ever occurs on chowk.

in that spirit, i think you should realize that when you start talking vague generalities like ``pakistani elite`` your arguments lose substance since elite can mean many different things (professionals, businessmen, politicians, landowners, tribal heads, religious leaders - and your statement clearly does not apply to all of these groups or even to all members of this group).

similarly, your use of shaky assumption and strong words (i.e. when you declare that ``akhand bharat, only some fools, including some Mohajirs on your side, dream about it.``) weakens whatever argument you are making - this applies to bj`s post below only, whose weaknesses hamidm has dealt with admirably in #196.

So - please try to come up with stronger reasoning so I may have the pleasure of agreeing with an Indian on chowk, which happens all too rarely. :-)

Re: # 197

dost-mittar,

point well taken ........... the biggest culprits in this creeping ``islamization`` has been the urban middle class and not so much the elite who have passively stood on the side lines with their glasses of imported whiskey - the middle class, on the other hand, have been active participants in the process .......

..........even though some elements of islamization existed before zia - for example bhutto`s dastardly act against the ahmedis and, most importantly, his monstrous ban on alcohol - radical islam in it`s most hideous and virulent form was introduced and institutionalized during zia`s time ............ and once the genie was out of the bottle everyone, including nawaz sharif, thought they could make it dance to their tune ........ even musharraf tried to do the same thing when he got into the hamam with the mullahs before he realized that he could not bend over to pick up the soap ........... religion, particularly islam, is a whore that everyone is willing to use but only diehard mullahs and brahmins are willing to marry ..............

....... i agree that musharraf is now trying to put this genie back in the bottle, but his praetorian desire to hang on to power forces him to cut deals with mullahs and other unsavory and shady characters ....... putting religion in its proper place is not that difficult in pakistan because the common man has much bigger problems than worrying about how many women he can bed in heaven - and an elected government of knaves and fools can do it much better than a egotistical dictator who continues to play one end against the other ............ on the other hand, an elected government would not back-pedal on kashmir either !

ps. if fair and free elections were held the mullahs would probably loose to the ppp and its allies even in the frontier ..............

#194 by hamidm2 on December 23, 2006 7:40am PT


and kashmir is unfinished business from partition that has to be settled - just because india refuses to recoginize the problem won`t make it go away .....


And just because your recognize it as a problem doesn`t mean it`ll go your way...

Indian Kashmir is India...deal with it...

#187 by anil on December 22, 2006 8:50pm PT


Don`t you think he would have the best vision among ``aandhon``?


Opening your eyes to the reality that most pakis fail to realize doesn`t make him a visionary...it makes his less deluded...

``#197 by dost-mittar on December 23, 2006 8:25am PT
hamidm:

You misinterpreted my post.``

This is a very common disease among self-righteous Pakistanis on chowk, they always abuse one for saying the complete opposite of what one wrote, leaving one puzzled trying to make sense of it. It points to a very clouded vision either in their heads or in their bifocals which impedes their reading.

#200 hamidm: either musharraf is a wily fox, giving the mullahs a long enough rope so they may hang themselves. As they are busy doing with with the strike called today e.g. in protest against the WPA (Women Protection Act), thus showing their true colors as oppressors of women and anyone else not protected by gunmen.

or else musharraf is a wily fox, giving the mullahs a long enough rope so they may scare anyone (Pakistani citizens as well as the international community) seeking to replace his military rule.

or else musharraf is a wily fox trying to do both.

Regardless of how wily he is, by strengthening military interference in politics, his name will be mud when future historians look back.

oh oh. sri arjunjee is here, parroting his one-tune ``deluded pakis`` crap as usual.

#199 by tahmed32 on December 23, 2006 9:01am PT


in that spirit, i think you should realize that when you start talking vague generalities like ``pakistani elite`` your arguments lose substance since elite can mean many different things
weakens whatever argument you are making


Uh-oh...DM is about to lose his prophet tahmed(PBUHSRR) seal of approval....

bad DM...bad...

Re: # 200
Middle class is buffer between two extremes.
Generally they are anxious and people with awareness and have time and inclination for future changes. Very well to do always survive and prosper in any regime. Poor are poor to have time to think or too do any thing , generally they do not get angry or too diturbed as life is so hard.
If regimes take care of middle classes normally then nobody will make problems and things will be fine.
This class is never happy as their aspirations and real life refuse to meet. Most restive and dangerous class though small in numbers. Middle classes are like indicator of future.

Speaking of delusions of pakis - here is one more: ``unfinished business of partition``... 60 years down the line - partition is still ``unfinished`` for pakis... they still haven`t accepted partition as it was, they still are lusting after land, resources... they are still ready to spill blood, continue the conflict...

And in the same breath - they turn around and accuse DM that he has NOT accepted partition... can you believe these losers.. :)

Pakis - partition was done in 1947, it`s over, finished, end of story... there is no unfinished business, no more land to get, no more kashmir to fall into your laps... You can`t even keep the land you have, with talibans making their kingdoms all over the place...