India, Pakistan and the Kashmir dispute

#90 so let me take liberty to translate..its need to defend against india...(e.g. not iran or oman). is this the unifying (raison-d`etre ?) after 71 or before too?

Re: # 64
I think that Tahmed is right about Mushrafaf he has played all his card right under the circumstances.

But at the same time Pakistan really will have no startegy of its own or direction, their survial will always be to align with China or US.
While the former may be harmless for now, but the latter has certainly aligned itself with rival India. Meanwhile Indian policy makers are also not sitting idle, they are trying to do the same by aligning with US overtly, by aligning with China as Eastern Culture bhai-bhai logic and simultaneously projecting itself as emerging power for this century.

Both are playing dangerous games, Pakistan being in more deep waters than India.
Most logical approach would be to work towards economic prosperity for the masses and when there is realtive calm(that normally happens with money like in Taiwan, Korea, Hong kong). Perhaps the borders will become more porus, and Pakistan will not send ISI agents as tourists to plant Jihad and India will allow free travel of Kashmiris.

Something like USA/Canada where there is no border rivalry due to economic prosperity that is more or less leveled.

Re: # 97 I don`t think so. I think it is to be the global leader in the terrorism industry. Competition is swift but there is a genetic (father`s side) attribute that serves as a competitive advantage.

#97 further to it..let us take some examples to clarify..

do you see kargil as a direct extention of ``secure borders`` policy or an aberration?
Also, how about kashmir jihad?

(PS HP you can also give input.. you have great analytical skills, especially in geo-politics...lately you seem to be reduced to 1-liners, which i must say are rather droll indeed).

Re: # 98
[...USA/Canada where there is no border rivalry ...]

That`s the way it was until 1965 - when pakis got an itch up their collective a00es and got kicked silly for that.... from then on - it`s down the hill all the way...

India-Pak can become US-canada very easily, together they can even be a force to reckon with - but bedouinism stands in the way... as long as ``La illah hila hila`` is there - there will never be any meaningful relationship...

There is nothing pathetic and problematic than macacas behaving like bedouins... :)

Re:tahmed32#93

[..this ``religious fundamentalism`` nonsense (which has nothing to do with religion anyway) is bound to take a back seat to the far bigger more powerful forces of unleashed by globalization, the rise of worldwide prosperity and so on....]

Sirjee, on this forum, out of all Pakistanis only yourself, hamidm and manto say anything against religious fundamentalism. Most Pakistanis seem to be in the Urstruly/Masadi/Naqshbandi/ntsyed mode. And that is one scary mode......

So pardon us macacas if we dont feel too excited about sharing Kashmir. The thought of Urstruly`s brother/sister/cousin (ok, maybe not sister!!) showing up with a gun sends shivers down our macaca spines....

Re: # 102

And Raw_Dust and there are more too. But I do not think anybody
listens to them in Pakistan, they get drowned out, deep.

Re:shishapa#103

[..And Raw_Dust and there are more too....]

He is probably a Qadiani like chaltahai and sattar. The muslim sounding Pakistanis who appear to be liberal are actually Qadiani, so I dont consider them as muslims. Among muslims, it is basically Tahmed, Hamidm and Manto who seem to be liberal, although rumor has it that Manto is a closet Qadiani. :-)

Re: # 104 ranjit aunty, I would be ok with being a qaidiani but I don;t evenknow what that is? Is that like some kind of muslim-lite aka ``Oh I cannot believe this is not Muslim``

Now here is the Chowk Nostradamus’s new prophecy:

Kashmir is the out-of-wedlock child of India and Pakistan when the couple separated -- and it will remain so -- part Pakistani and part Indian.

the judge cannot divide the child thru its navel the Valley without killing it -- thus the LOC will neihter be the Siratul Mustaqeem nor the Lakshman Rekha -- it will be called MushMohan line -- and Kashmir new name will be the twin state of PaKashmulHind.....like the Buda and the Pest.

.......and the fertile family with the ``char AnkhoN ka Tara`` child will live happily ever after.....bearing many more little PaKashmulHind babies on the way.....Amen

#105 by chaltahai on December 19, 2006 1:54pm PT

In Pakiland, it`s more like ``I can`t believe you called yourself muslim``...

Ref tahmed32 #59

[I wonder what chowk strategic thinkers think of this development. Connect this dot to the naval facilities the Chinese get at Gawadur and you get the picture: In addition to fighting terrorism (a concern for China too in its western sinkiang province), this also provides China with a short-cut to the middle east.]

Terrorism in Western Sinkiang? You mean Eastern Turkestan, don`t you? And those Uighurs are non-pork-eating Muslims. right? So, how come they are not freedom fighters but terrorists? What gives? In Chechnya, Bosnis, Dagestan, Ingushetia, Kashmir, etc., you refer to them as terrorsits and now all of a sudden you call these fellow-Muslims terrorists?

Take your time getting the Chinese dick out of your mouth before you answer. We are willing to wait.

Most Chowkies think that Pak strategic thinkers rent out their moms by the hour at Heera Mandi. That time (an hour) is about the longest they can focus on.

Re shishapa #84

[So here is a question, if Mohammad Ali Jinnah had not died in 1948 but
say lived long after Independence like Nehru did and if
MohammadDas KarimChand Gandhi was not assasinated, would
Kashmir problem ever occurred or would have been resolved and how?]

Mohammad Ali Jinnah was very much alive and kicking when tribal Irregulars invaded Kashmir under the leadership of Pak Army officers who were given ``leaves of absence``.

Read up on ``The Great Divide`` by HV Hodson and you will find that this was one of Jinnah`s strategic plots: get Junagadh to accede to Pakistan and then, no matter how Junagadh is decided, use that precedent in the case of Hyderabad and/or Kashmir.

In the end, Jinnah`s scheme backfired on him. Just like his demand for Partition led to the partition of Bengal and Punjab as well.

According to that dear boy Yasser Latif Hamdani, Jinnah was a giant all those who came after him were pygmies in comparison.

Jinnah was a pea-brained idiot.

That ought to tell you a whole lot about the Pak leadership that came after him.

Ref harimau #108

Read [Terrorism in Western Sinkiang? You mean Eastern Turkestan, don`t you? And those Uighurs are non-pork-eating Muslims. right? So, how come they are not freedom fighters but terrorists? What gives? In Chechnya, Bosnis, Dagestan, Ingushetia, Kashmir, etc., you refer to them as terrorsits and now all of a sudden you call these fellow-Muslims terrorists? ]

as

[In Chechnya, Bosnis, Dagestan, Ingushetia, Kashmir, etc., you refer to them as freedom-fighters and now all of a sudden you call these fellow-Muslims terrorists?]

Morning cuppa is just beginning to take effect.

Aparna,
Thank you for a well-written article that presents each country`s position quite succinctly. What I would like to add is that the two main antagonists, India and Pakistan, share a lot more in common with each other than either one does with Kashmir. Within this context, I believe that the solution to Kashmir begs for a resolution of the animosity between India and Pakistan. The incomplete outcome of the Kashmir conflict depends on the undoing of the completed business of partition.

There is nothing wrong with the admission of mistakes, taking responsibility for the faux pas, and then moving carefully to undo the consequences. There was no need for partition in the first place and the events of 1971 negated whatever justification that may have been hanging around due to the twin conveniences of tradition and habit.

Let`s be bold. Declare partition to be the problem. Blame the incompetence and cruelty of the ruling British for the terrible consequences and move on to catch up to where we could have been had our leaders had the foresight and foreskin to compromise. :)

Re: # 111
[....had our leaders had the foresight and foreskin to compromise. :)..]

ha ha... good one...

I am not for undoing partition... may be US-canada type arrangement - if and only if pakis completely give up jihad, islamism, ``la illah hila hila``.... they commit to secularism, pluarlism, reinstate rights of minority, ahmedi rights with an constitution drawn up accordingly...

Otherwise, it won`t work...