India, Pakistan and the Kashmir dispute

it is the missing ‘K’ in the word Pakistan


honestly pakis...it`s easier to rename the country to paistan than actually wrestle Indian Kashmir from India...

think about it...the word paki won`t mean anything...it`ll be pais instead of pakis..and then you`ll just be fish eating ghatis...

Re: Arjun # 16

The emerging reality is that Kashmir will be finally solved according to the Shimla Agreement of 1972.

Shimla moved the process to the settlement of the issue one step closer to a final solution, when it superceded United Nation`s demarcated line of the cease-fire and converted it into an actual Line of Control (LoC). The LoC is, in actual reality, the defacto border between Indian and Pakistani Kashmir and it is only matter of formalizing it into a dejure international border. In that respect, the process is moving forward but it still needs to navigate the emotional minefields in India and Pakistan vis-a-vis Kashmir.

Ciao

#4 by ferozk on December 18, 2006 1:26am PT

ferozbhai: Even a scotch gulping moderate like hamidm tells us the paki junta will never accept anything less than Kashmir banega Pakistan..

The bottom line is that India is looking to convert the LoC into the border(that`s what a change in the border means in the indian parliament) and for an end to the jihad and Pakistanis wants a change in the border in their favor..

hence the dispute..if there was a solution that would have been acceptable to both sides, i think there are enough people on both sides would have jumped at it...

Re: HP # 17

I would concur with your opinions.

Ciao

Gen. Musharaf’s new proposals are similar to what I had argued in the linked article and subsequent interacts.

It is time to Dissolve this issue to everybody’s satisfaction. Can it be done?

In that article, I argued:
“The Kashmir issue really has no solution that can resolve this problem to everyone’s delight. There are so many emotions, national egos, and political survival issues attached with it that neither the Congress nor the army would ink something that could bring an instant political death to one or the both parties.

No matter how people sift through many solutions out there, the probability of a resolution to everyone’s satisfaction is zero. The best course in such a situation is to find a way to dissolve the problem through some mutually agreed steps that would not provide the knives wielding opponents any chance to strike.”

It seems that both India and Pakistan have agreed to dissolve the issue as I had proposed here and in discussions with friends in the Pakistan Foreign ministry. The new proposals from Mushy have come about after Khurshid Kasuri spent couple of days in India sequestered with the Indian foreign ministery officails at Hyderabad Deccan House in Delhi under the guise of a private trip.

The beauty of the proposal is that India does not have to say YES or NO to it. It just has to continue working the action items proposed.

The situation in the ME is so fluid now that US cannot afford any escalation between India and Pakistan. Thus, tremendous amount of pressure is being brought down on both countries to work together in the face of the emerging realities in the region.
The US now sees India, Pakistan, and Afghanistan as a future block that will help control the emerging chaos in the ME and central Asia.

A military alliance between Pakistan and India, in the next five to seven years, would be the second largest military collaboration just behind NATO eclipsing even China and Russia. China or Russia may maintain their nuke arsenal superiority but the Subcontinent armies’ sit in the most important area of the world. They would quite simply overwhelm any threat to the oil and gas lines to the world.

After the destruction of Iraq is complete, Iran’s control of the oil and shipping lines has to be broken. The US may not be able to do it militarily now but I expect a major diplomatic and political onslaught by the current and the future US admin against Iran. Both Pakistan and India have certainly signed on that already.

Coming back to the Pak-India relations: The Indian approach for better trade relations first has proven wrong and the best course is to develop cultural relations first followed by the business relations after the cultural relations have stabilized.

Both have already agreed to a relaxation in travel situation. The next step would be to open airwaves for movies and cable tv channels. There is a fear in Pakistan of Indian cultural dominance through Indian movies and cable channels. I think people fail to see that the Pakistani TV channels have a potentially bigger audience in India that will immediately snap up Pakistan cable channels, if made available to them legally. The movie situation would work out in Pakistan’s favor too as that will generate business opportunities in small cities and towns in Pakistan. Studies have time again shown that the TV is much more influential medium than the movies.

It seems like exciting changes are coming in the subcontinent and for that cycle to complete, the rightwing Khasis/Nazi wanna be on the Indian side and the Fundos on the Pakistan side will have to be politically defeated.

Re: # 39

Nobody undid Nixon`s various policy initiatives - getting rid of gold standard, setting up EPA/EEOC, opening to China etc.

I do not much about the Pakistani army. What prevents a future Pakistani general from not honoring deals made by the current brass.

Re: # 18

It was not Nixon`s political legitimacy but his anti-communist credentials that allowed him to make the rapprochement with China in the 1970s.

As to Aiyer, you seemed to have missed the point again. Aiyer offers a non-diplomatic channel between Pakistani officaldom, especially Musharraf, and Indian policy makers. It is in this sense, where his usefulness lies and not in his political popularity within Indian politics.

Ciao

ferozk #4

`` Just as only Nixon could go to China, no civilian leadership in Pakistan has, or will have, the courage to solve the Kashmir issue. The crux of the matter is that if there has to be change in the mind-set of the army, it will be a result of ``in-house`` change and not because the army has suddenly decided to obey a civilian leadership. Furthermore, it is a stale stable that suggests that Pakistani army is determined to hold on to Kashmir, because in the recent past, the threat orientation of the Pakistani army is not focused on Kashmir but internal problems and issues. ``

Nixon was elected twice as President of USA. There is no doubt to his political legitimacy.
Where does Musharraf stand with respect to his support in the Pakistani army ?

`` one of the names suggested for it was Mani Shankar Aiyar. ``

Mr Aiyar is a political reject whose only claim to power/fame is his ties to the Nehru family.

#17 HP sayeen, happy festivus to you on this occasion of signing the nuke deal by bush. one of the only 2 bush legislations passed by US congress (the other being vietnam trade pact).

I tried to follow your arguement but gave up after this:

``The Indian approach for better trade relations first has proven wrong and the best course is to develop cultural relations first followed by the business relations after the cultural relations have stabilized. ``

wtf is ``cultural relationships``? is it TV and movies? that to me sounds like pure bidness, restricted to entertainment media. Indian tv-films ``culture`` is already well known to pakis and old paki TV serials were very popular in india. so as far as improving cultural relationships, there is hardly anything that will improve, what will improve is business.

cultural realtionship sounds as vague and nosensical as the usual ``warm brotherly relations`` sentence in paki foreign ministry statements when refering to arabic or other islamic country relations.

Jang,

You are not ``endowed`` enough to understand what better endowed write. So dont even try...well actually you are now a lipstick..stick to some pig`s lips....

Re: # 21

Peace has nothing to do with kashmir - even if you ``solve`` kashmir, another issue will invented by pakis to keep them going...

Peace will there only when paki jihadi mindset changes to secular/pluralistic existence... and that will happen when hell freezes over... :)

It`s high time to solve Kashmir issue n let people on both sides enjoy some peace

#20 shame HP.. you have some hi-faluting criticism of bania approach of better business ties and put some fluff of ``better cultural ties``. all you got in explanation is sexual innuendo? this is pathetic. i was expecting at least some name-dropping ;-)

Jang,

I know sometime it takes you longer to understand. That was my way of politely telling you off. I like to discus issues with educated people and not lipsticks.

yet another Paki afflicted with MDP... :)

Please excuse my threadjack.
For information for Chowk staff and other cut and patse artist or the google hogs...


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