India, Pakistan and the Kashmir dispute

ranjit: you remembered jinnah`s birthday. i am so touched i could cry. ylh will also be very pleased. :-)

#94 no bollywood dialogs please.

Re: # 97 I don`t think so. I think it is to be the global leader in the terrorism industry. Competition is swift but there is a genetic (father`s side) attribute that serves as a competitive advantage.

#90 so let me take liberty to translate..its need to defend against india...(e.g. not iran or oman). is this the unifying (raison-d`etre ?) after 71 or before too?

#97 further to it..let us take some examples to clarify..

do you see kargil as a direct extention of ``secure borders`` policy or an aberration?
Also, how about kashmir jihad?

(PS HP you can also give input.. you have great analytical skills, especially in geo-politics...lately you seem to be reduced to 1-liners, which i must say are rather droll indeed).

Re: # 102

And Raw_Dust and there are more too. But I do not think anybody
listens to them in Pakistan, they get drowned out, deep.

Re:tahmed32#93

[..this ``religious fundamentalism`` nonsense (which has nothing to do with religion anyway) is bound to take a back seat to the far bigger more powerful forces of unleashed by globalization, the rise of worldwide prosperity and so on....]

Sirjee, on this forum, out of all Pakistanis only yourself, hamidm and manto say anything against religious fundamentalism. Most Pakistanis seem to be in the Urstruly/Masadi/Naqshbandi/ntsyed mode. And that is one scary mode......

So pardon us macacas if we dont feel too excited about sharing Kashmir. The thought of Urstruly`s brother/sister/cousin (ok, maybe not sister!!) showing up with a gun sends shivers down our macaca spines....

Re: # 104 ranjit aunty, I would be ok with being a qaidiani but I don;t evenknow what that is? Is that like some kind of muslim-lite aka ``Oh I cannot believe this is not Muslim``

Re:shishapa#103

[..And Raw_Dust and there are more too....]

He is probably a Qadiani like chaltahai and sattar. The muslim sounding Pakistanis who appear to be liberal are actually Qadiani, so I dont consider them as muslims. Among muslims, it is basically Tahmed, Hamidm and Manto who seem to be liberal, although rumor has it that Manto is a closet Qadiani. :-)

Now here is the Chowk Nostradamus’s new prophecy:

Kashmir is the out-of-wedlock child of India and Pakistan when the couple separated -- and it will remain so -- part Pakistani and part Indian.

the judge cannot divide the child thru its navel the Valley without killing it -- thus the LOC will neihter be the Siratul Mustaqeem nor the Lakshman Rekha -- it will be called MushMohan line -- and Kashmir new name will be the twin state of PaKashmulHind.....like the Buda and the Pest.

.......and the fertile family with the ``char AnkhoN ka Tara`` child will live happily ever after.....bearing many more little PaKashmulHind babies on the way.....Amen

#105 by chaltahai on December 19, 2006 1:54pm PT

In Pakiland, it`s more like ``I can`t believe you called yourself muslim``...

Ref tahmed32 #59

[I wonder what chowk strategic thinkers think of this development. Connect this dot to the naval facilities the Chinese get at Gawadur and you get the picture: In addition to fighting terrorism (a concern for China too in its western sinkiang province), this also provides China with a short-cut to the middle east.]

Terrorism in Western Sinkiang? You mean Eastern Turkestan, don`t you? And those Uighurs are non-pork-eating Muslims. right? So, how come they are not freedom fighters but terrorists? What gives? In Chechnya, Bosnis, Dagestan, Ingushetia, Kashmir, etc., you refer to them as terrorsits and now all of a sudden you call these fellow-Muslims terrorists?

Take your time getting the Chinese dick out of your mouth before you answer. We are willing to wait.

Most Chowkies think that Pak strategic thinkers rent out their moms by the hour at Heera Mandi. That time (an hour) is about the longest they can focus on.

Re shishapa #84

[So here is a question, if Mohammad Ali Jinnah had not died in 1948 but
say lived long after Independence like Nehru did and if
MohammadDas KarimChand Gandhi was not assasinated, would
Kashmir problem ever occurred or would have been resolved and how?]

Mohammad Ali Jinnah was very much alive and kicking when tribal Irregulars invaded Kashmir under the leadership of Pak Army officers who were given ``leaves of absence``.

Read up on ``The Great Divide`` by HV Hodson and you will find that this was one of Jinnah`s strategic plots: get Junagadh to accede to Pakistan and then, no matter how Junagadh is decided, use that precedent in the case of Hyderabad and/or Kashmir.

In the end, Jinnah`s scheme backfired on him. Just like his demand for Partition led to the partition of Bengal and Punjab as well.

According to that dear boy Yasser Latif Hamdani, Jinnah was a giant all those who came after him were pygmies in comparison.

Jinnah was a pea-brained idiot.

That ought to tell you a whole lot about the Pak leadership that came after him.

Ref harimau #108

Read [Terrorism in Western Sinkiang? You mean Eastern Turkestan, don`t you? And those Uighurs are non-pork-eating Muslims. right? So, how come they are not freedom fighters but terrorists? What gives? In Chechnya, Bosnis, Dagestan, Ingushetia, Kashmir, etc., you refer to them as terrorsits and now all of a sudden you call these fellow-Muslims terrorists? ]

as

[In Chechnya, Bosnis, Dagestan, Ingushetia, Kashmir, etc., you refer to them as freedom-fighters and now all of a sudden you call these fellow-Muslims terrorists?]

Morning cuppa is just beginning to take effect.

Re: # 111
[....had our leaders had the foresight and foreskin to compromise. :)..]

ha ha... good one...

I am not for undoing partition... may be US-canada type arrangement - if and only if pakis completely give up jihad, islamism, ``la illah hila hila``.... they commit to secularism, pluarlism, reinstate rights of minority, ahmedi rights with an constitution drawn up accordingly...

Otherwise, it won`t work...

Re: # 128

Ahmedmadani Sahib:

BTW, I would like to understand 4.5 year trend analysis, if you could send me at: anilkapuria@yahoo.com

On Hoodboy`s board I had posted my views about Unity. Personally I prefer diversity over unity. Regarding religious beliefs, I am attracted toward ``Is man the best creation of God, or is God the best imagination of man``, and respect that there can never be single answer.

Regarding NED, I read here that it is probably the best technological institution in Pakistan. My point is with what dreams a graduate of such institution comes to commence his / her life in the real world. It is this dream which is important for the individual and society he or she decides to settle down. I am sure when someone graduates from the best military academy in Pakistan, the cadet must be dreaming to reach the pinnacle. In both cases what graduates turn out is the different phase altogether. It would be sinful for a great institution to not provide an ability to dream, or have a dream to achieve some thing say a babu, if you do not like, thekedar of jamadars on affirmative actions. Please ask the female relative who graduated from NED what her dream is. The way importance of knowledge was knocked down by this graduate, is what I question, colorful or colorless contributions not withstanding.

As the world moves away from our generation, there are several shifts that are taking place. Your analysis of Canadian stocks attest to one such shift. Gross Knowledge Product (GKP) of people will be more important, and not Gross Domestic Product (GDP) of nations. Many products we hold dear will be no more than the wrappers we discard, but knowledge will only add power to the people.

In GDP society creation of job / work and profit was essential, in GKP society, the paradigm is ``In knowledge lies the power``. Even America, and Europe are raising voices about the shift in knowledge base toward Asia, simply because of demographics of the India and China are such that these regions will produce more talent to gather bigger and bigger Gross Knowledge Product to these regions. If institutions in Pakistan permit this to happen, nothing can stop young Pakistanis.

This weeks, Economist has a very interesting news about low cost cars. This news mentions that the China is unable to produce low cost cars, as its car production is copy of expensive cars and plants from developed countries. India is trying to produce a 100,000 rupee car ($2,100) car. The company, Tata Motors would be able to come up with a car under $3,000, and that is yet to go in production.

As a footnote, it mentioned about some Trident Motor company in Karachi Pakistan, which has produced a $2,200 car, which like Tata`s car is completely designed and production facility tooled in Pakistan. This company has already shipped this car to middle eastern companies and as far as Chile. I am certain such footnotes can become news in themselves.

I am equally confident that these Pakistani technocrats and entreprenuers of this Pakistani company did not dream to become ``thekedar of jamadars of septic tank cleaners in a red-neck state, and that too on affirmative action program. These entreprenuers have achieved what deserves to be brought out as role model, and not ``thekedar of jamadars on affirmative action``.

Whatever, venting the young-turks have done at Chowk against all and one, I indeed see a streak of fighting and killer instinct of a street fighter. What would happen if you give them a way to dream and tools to realize the dream. Just think about it, Ahmedmadani sahib.

In the meantime please do not forget to send me your 4.5 year trend analysis.