Re-Imagining Pakistan

#333
He was an elitist who disliked getting the `masses` into the political system, his vision for the future constitutional set up of India was restricted to maximising the influence of Muslims over others far beyond the claims of natural justice by a minority. His choice of politics was to abuse everyone who did not surrender to that vision. He had no desire to seek Hindu votes ever (he was determined to be a leader only for the Muslims). He demanded a veto over the ideology of other parties about who could be their members, what should be their ideology and who they could nominate to office. He also demanded an absolute veto for Muslims over the rest of the Indian communities in every province/municipality irrespective of Muslim population percentage and called rest of India`s majority wrt Muslims as inherently evil simply on the count that it was a majority, legislative or otherwise. That disqualifies him for everything as far as I am concerned. Pakistanis are most welcome to claim Jinnah as their own.

Re: # 252 by tahmed32

Okay bhai...you`ve proven that ``truth`` is bitter....LoL

Let`s reaffirm this ``truth`` by addressing the question I posed to you earlier (in #238) and you avoided to answer:

``Do you have the courage to accept the ``truth`` in the Quran that you were created for nothing but to worship Allah? And that you have to worship as is His Right to be worshiped; i.e. following in the footsteps of Prophet (PBUH) every step of the way?``

Remember, you cannot hide behind the ``religion is a personal thing`` excuse.

You see, meray bhai, if a person does not accept this truth and live by it, then the falsehood prevails over him in no time. Consequently it becomes extremely difficult for him to re-establish the truth. The example is around you if you care to open your eyes.

For you and I as Muslims, the point is even more critical than it appears. Otherwise, it`s better not to deliver such grand bhashans as author, you, and some others are proposing. If the likes of Mr. Hoodbhoy are going to be at loss for words on this point too, then you can take comfort in the fact that you`re in the company of some accomplished eye-dee-ten-tees (|D|0Ts). But for goodness sakes, please stop misleading Muslims and Pakistanis. As it is, we already have more than enough of misleaders to deal with.

:-)~~

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Re: # 328 by sadna on December 18, 2006 9:18am PT
Epilogue: The oddest thing was that the people who were terming Hoodbhoy a evil-intentioned foreign agent were the same people who implicity agreed with him that truth diversity etc were opposite of Jinnah`s vision.

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Ask sanatani and he will use the same twisted logic about Gandhi as well.

Creation of modern day Hindustan is a complex set of events. Anyone trying to bottle it in ``hindu-Muslim`` religious $hite is obviously mistaken. Don`t you think Mr. Sadna?


As for Jinnah, it is clear if you care to see just his pictures during his long political career (I know reading his speeches is kind hard for so-called educated Indians). Look at him and figure out if:

1. He is making speeches from a mosque?
2. Is he waving Quran in any of the pictures?
3. Is he carrying issues around based on some dilapidated mosque similar to janam bhumi?

A common answer to all these is ``Heck No!``.

OTOH,

His pictures present a man who is

1. Filthy rich
2. Wears 3 piece tailor made suites direct from London`s big name darzis (tailors).
3. Drives Rolls Royce
4. Enjoys the best wines
6. Dines in the best restaurants.
7. Dates the prettiest AND wealthy ladies.
8. Befriends the richest AND secular Parsis, Hindus, and Muslims.

Bottom line, he stood for free market, secular, merit based, super-rich approach towards life.

He is more in line with Tata, Premji, Carnegie, Rockefellers instead of some Show-Shaw-list (pseudo-socialist) begger-look-alike Gandhi, madari-Nehru, or Munna Bhai, Chota Bhai, or some bearded Mawdoodi Mullah cabal.

So Mr. Sadna, read his speeches and if you can`t, then at least look at his pictures. You would have married off your daughter to him instead of some begger-$hite Gandhi.


Jinnah was in the 1930s what every Indian wants to be in 2010, i.e Rich, smart, lift up from the bootstraps, and secular.

Indians should be the last group throwing stones at this great man.
Mullahs (both Muslim and Hindu types) are off course a different story.

#318
I don`t have much to say whether indian-style democracy is inherently virtuous - altho as a practical matter it leads to compromise which is the glue holding the union together - but i would take exception to you citing the behavior of a set of indians as somehow reflective of how things work on the ground - this is naive in the extreme.

#318 by Mantolives on December 18, 2006 5:35am PT


Nothing on chowk has given me confidence that the citizens


I just heard the collective groan of anguish of a billion indians at the realization that they`ve failed in their lives ultimate goal of getting a paki to endorse their democratic credentials..

I envision mass suicides..unless you tell them what they can do to attain their only goal in life: your stamp of approval for their democracy..

Re: # 328

It`s called double-think... ability to believe in two opposite ideas... pakis excel in that :)

Corr: The oddest thing was that the people who were terming Hoodbhoy a evil-intentioned foreign agent bent upon undermining Pakistani nationalism were the same people who implicity agreed with him that truth diversity etc were the opposite of Jinnah`s vision.

Epilogue: The oddest thing was that the people who were terming Hoodbhoy a evil-intentioned foreign agent were the same people who implicity agreed with him that truth diversity etc were opposite of Jinnah`s vision.

This is a similar type of mystery to the one where people not only abuse one set of people for opposing the creation of Pakistan but also abuse another set of people for facilitating the creation of Pakistan, both at the same time. Meanwhile the actual vocal advocates and facilitators of the creation of Pakistan(the ML and the British) do not merit any comment whatsoever.

Re: # 323

Hamidm Gopinath seems to have ``manhood`` issues... :)... a grown man with a couple of grown children, still suffering from MDP (Manhood Deficit Paranoia)... urghhh... who would have thunk?

Re: # 299
[.... Yasser is like Mohammad Yosuf,...]

Sure - like Yusuf, yasser has to convert to survive... :)

But the comparison ends there.... Yusuf is a winner... yasser, on the other hand, is an accomplished whiner... And you guys are encouraging such behavior by indulging his silly bullsh!t... :)

Oh jeez - Is YLH whining again?... Yo Yasser, you are grown man - stop whining... ``indians bad...look ma, indians kicked my a##, gandhi is bad toooo... boo hoo...`` you look like a two-bit l0ser when you do that...:)

Look - if you are going mess with the bullies - they are going to kick your a$$... now, of course that won`t be pleasant to you... but learn to take it like a man... :)

And devkant, majumdar - do not encourage Yasser`s whining routine - stop wiping his silly tears... :)... he needs to grow up...

Re: # 323

kaal,

..... the only solution i see to this indo-pak problem on chowk is to get arjun and zeena to get married - they would make a sweet couple even though i fear for their offspring ............

ha ha

Hamidm2, you know, seeing this news item, this is precisely what came to mind: Hamidm2 is going to LOVE rubbing it in our face. Now hopefully Indians will take this one with a better sense of humor.

:) :)

first it was a below average manhood, and now this !

A top Indian woman athlete who won a silver medal at a recent regional championship has failed a gender test, officials say.

............ no wonder some indian interactors on this board display signs of acute anxiety ! ........ if it hadn`t been for their new found j2ee prowess, the horrible hindoos would have been hurling themselves down from the palm trees in their dhotis after consuming rancid todi ..........

............ thank god for jinnah, even though i can do without hackneyed slogans like `unity, faith, and discipline` and banal bedouin bleats of `allah o`akbar` ............

truth, diversity and creativity !

Re: # 318

Name dropping wont work here, u jobless scum!

As for using british curricula, it`s another SHAME of ur country i.e u cant devise ur own curricula based on ur needs. Enough said abt it.

Re: # 319

The thing about systems is that they bring order to chaos... and hence the product does matter.

Since there is no significant difference, people like myself have a hard job convincing our fellow countrymen of looking to your country as a successful experiment.