Re-Imagining Pakistan

Re: # 328

It`s called double-think... ability to believe in two opposite ideas... pakis excel in that :)

Oh jeez - Is YLH whining again?... Yo Yasser, you are grown man - stop whining... ``indians bad...look ma, indians kicked my a##, gandhi is bad toooo... boo hoo...`` you look like a two-bit l0ser when you do that...:)

Look - if you are going mess with the bullies - they are going to kick your a$$... now, of course that won`t be pleasant to you... but learn to take it like a man... :)

And devkant, majumdar - do not encourage Yasser`s whining routine - stop wiping his silly tears... :)... he needs to grow up...

ha ha

Hamidm2, you know, seeing this news item, this is precisely what came to mind: Hamidm2 is going to LOVE rubbing it in our face. Now hopefully Indians will take this one with a better sense of humor.

:) :)

Re: # 323

Hamidm Gopinath seems to have ``manhood`` issues... :)... a grown man with a couple of grown children, still suffering from MDP (Manhood Deficit Paranoia)... urghhh... who would have thunk?

Re: # 323

kaal,

..... the only solution i see to this indo-pak problem on chowk is to get arjun and zeena to get married - they would make a sweet couple even though i fear for their offspring ............

first it was a below average manhood, and now this !

A top Indian woman athlete who won a silver medal at a recent regional championship has failed a gender test, officials say.

............ no wonder some indian interactors on this board display signs of acute anxiety ! ........ if it hadn`t been for their new found j2ee prowess, the horrible hindoos would have been hurling themselves down from the palm trees in their dhotis after consuming rancid todi ..........

............ thank god for jinnah, even though i can do without hackneyed slogans like `unity, faith, and discipline` and banal bedouin bleats of `allah o`akbar` ............

truth, diversity and creativity !

Manto,

(that the citizens of ``secular`` and ``pluralistic`` democratic India are any more tolerant or accepting of a point of view contrary to theirs than the citizens of ``Islamic`` an ``theocratic`` militarised state of Pakistan .... infact my own feeling is that they are considerably less so. )

Since it is purely an opinion, I will neither agree nor disagree.

But I dont expect even a ``secular democracy`` to convince its citizens from the depth of their hearts that it is a good idea to respect each other`s fundamental rights. But if by wielding a danda, the same idea can be enforced at least it would be some progress. A geniune concern for pluralism and tolerance will come with a passage of time.

At any right not too many Indians would publicly dispute:

That a government ought to be formed on any basis but universal franchise.
That all religions/adherents of various religions ought to be treated equally. And that the state ought not to have a faith.

Yes, given right amount of resources, citizens/individuals may actually try to violate the above principles. It is to be hoped that genuine concern for citizenship rights and duties would develop over a few decades. But at least a start has been made in India.

Regards

Re: # 319

The thing about systems is that they bring order to chaos... and hence the product does matter.

Since there is no significant difference, people like myself have a hard job convincing our fellow countrymen of looking to your country as a successful experiment.

Dear Devkant (and Majumdar),

On the exclusive issue of who started it... it is on the record. I am certainly not going to stop first.

On the issue vis a vis Indian democracy... I more or less agree with what you gentlemen have written, but my comment and disillusionment is with the product that your rather successful democratic experience has produced.

Nothing on chowk has given me confidence that the citizens of ``secular`` and ``pluralistic`` democratic India are any more tolerant or accepting of a point of view contrary to theirs than the citizens of ``Islamic`` an ``theocratic`` militarised state of Pakistan .... infact my own feeling is that they are considerably less so.


VRV,

You are in luck. My blinkers have nothing to do with ``high school books`` (yours do clearly) since the curriculum my ``elitist`` school followed was entirely British. As a careless teenager in those days I would give a damn about politics and history.

Infact, my blinkers about a lot of things came off in the halls of Alexandar and Douglass Libraries of Rutgers and the Butler and Mislein Libraries of Columbia University where I read in detail about Pakistan, India, Jinnah and Gandhi amongst other things- most of it to understand what idiots on chowk were actually saying. Many other blinkers came off when I actually met your lot a lot at college.

So instead of ``assuming`` so much, it would help if you just took your blinkers off.

Re: # 318

Name dropping wont work here, u jobless scum!

As for using british curricula, it`s another SHAME of ur country i.e u cant devise ur own curricula based on ur needs. Enough said abt it.

BJ,

No two human beings are alike. I found Zeena`s initial interactions here on FP+UP to be of liberal nature. Moreover gaals can always keep upper hand visavis arguments/debate on politics. Btw, I dont expect them not to debate politics and discuss only things like lipsticks, venus razors and undies coz they too have opinions.

As for me, I see a person`s broad contours of thinking than minute details coz everybody needs elbow room on issues. Moreover we belong to two different republics with two different outlooks. If u look at their school history books then u wud know why these people think and argue like this i.e upbringing is skewed. The unsaid part of the inference is that minds are screwed at early stages in life. The blinkers set at early stages sticks even when they go to Rutgers.

As for bonsai intellectual Yasser, he`s a one-trick pony ie his famour trick is:

`Gandhi is cateist, racist, exclusivist bigot`.

He suffers from OCD coz he inserts this sentence even if the debate is abt life on Mars i.e exobiology. It`s easy to pip him coz his mind aperture is very small/narrow like the centre of gravity of a woman;)

#312 by Mantolives on December 18, 2006 3:27am PT
`It would help you if you saw who started spewing what venom when. Nothing would please me more to bring this constant hatemongering back and forth to an end but we didn`t start the fire here.`

yasser, we can go on and on about who started it fiirst. the fact is that we are all at fault. i am my self not interested in indulging in this hate mongering. but sometimes we all get simply carried away!!!

`Therefore it is completely irrelevant what you can do without, because I am the same guy who was untill a few years ago, advocating emulating the Indian model of democracy (yes I was stupid and it was based on a premise that does not exist) .... for Pakistan.`

i do not see what is so wrong with the indian model of democracy. elections are held regularly,any major decision is taken is being put to public scrutiny, there is an independent judiciary, election commission, an extremely vibrant and free press (which is one of the most essential components of a democratic society) and defence force. while there are some problems in implementation, but tell me which democracy is perfect. just by saying that democracy in india does not exist is the biggest blunder you can make before studying about india.

now because there were communal riots and the state govt was suspected to have a hand in it, does it mean that democracy is finished. cases are going on in the courts and verdicts will be announced in due time. the indian people made their verdict very clear when they removed the bjp and their alliance from power in 2004 election.

if you wanna have a civilised debate on this, i am all game.

rgds,

devkant.

Manto,

Do we seriously expect 50 year old nations, highly heterogenous in composition with limited history of self-governance, where half the population lives in poverty and is illiterate to be Sweden style states with near impeccable levels of governance, respect for human rights etc.

I think if Pakistan could ditto copy Constitution of India and even achieve an India style of democracy in lets say 5-10 years time, it would still be a great progress. And even then (as is true of India today) there would be huge scope for further growth in terms of nation building.

Regards

I was talking of implemenation.

Indian Constitution is a remarkable document and its principal author, Dr. Ambedkar, was a genius... and to tell you the truth, while I dislike the Islamic provisions of the Pakistani constitution of 1973, it too was a remarkable compromise document.

In implementation, both have faced varying degrees of failure... though obviously we have failed much more than you have.

Manto,

(advocating emulating the Indian model of democracy for Pakistan. )

Even if your experience with Indian interactors has been bad, how does that change the applicability of Indian model for Pakistan. There is nothing that is basically wrong with the Indian Constitution, yes implementation may not be perfect.

Regards

#310 by master_pak on December 18, 2006 2:59am PT

dude....i find your boastful retorts more pitiful and funny than offensive. if you wanna make a complete fool of yourself on a public forum, please do it by all means.

like i said, samajhdaar ko ishara hi kaafi hai!!!!

rgds,

devkant.