An Untouchable Apology

paulose

Merry Christmas and peace to you too.

ROFL.. Paulose.

good job.. continue your good work. Make sure that you get your money`s worth. If you think about the return on investments, it doesn`t look that good. Just 5% christians (in TN) in 300 years of christian rule (starting from 1650s.. chennai is the first brit- controlled region i think)..

Make sure your money doesn`t go into fraud bishops` hands. Over the last couple of months, a few ``bishops`` are busted in TN for fraud in the Tsunami funds..

I know Spirit of Giving is an alien thing to a Hindu Brahmin (I know you believe more in spirit of taking and then spitting at the giver) but if you are living in US or Canada and are Hindus, PLEASE celebrate the Spirit of Christmas.

Remember both US and Canada are Christian Countries.


Wish y’all a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

#126 by masanamuthu

Yes, I am trying to promote conversion from OBC and SC/ST religion to become respectable Christians. What’s wrong with that.

Unlike you guys we Christians are doing something for India. I have led 2 Christian humanitarian missions to tribal areas of Gujarat (Dangs) and Orissa and looking to go there again and save some more souls.

From your handle it seems you are Tamil. Are you pissed because a Malayali Nair guy like MGR ruled your Tamil Nadu State for 10 long years? And he had Brahmin wives and Brahmin mistresses? Maybe that’s why Harimau Iyer is pissed off at Nairs. Now I get it.

#125 by kaalchakra

Everything I have written here is truth. Its Christmas and I don’t have time to play spin-doctor games like you Brahmins do. You guys are experts. You have convinced more than 75 % (50 % OBC and 25 % SC/ST) of population of a billion strong country like India that they are either OBC’s or Shudras or Servant caste coming from the foot of god OR Untouchables or no-caste or achchoots. Its hard to win arguments with you guys. My hats off to you.

Anyways you can try to get counter arguments and post it here and I will come back and contest that. Okey-dokey.

‘Tis the season.
It’s Christmas.
It’s the most wonderful time of the year.
And I am practicing singing yuletide carols.
And I am very busy.
And I am sure you will understand.

Re: # 124
[Mallus have every right to go anywhere in the world and take any jobs anywhere. Like they have always done. Especially anywhere in India. Of course it is a no-brainer because kerala is a part of India.]

Good show sonny. I`m glad you realised that. So what about that 60% you were talking about, from God`s own country that tries to live on a remittance economy?

Nobody should kid themselves that they are something special because by some accident of fate they happened to be born in a fecund land instead of some barren stony cesspit.

You should really take your anthropology studies more seriously, and yourself less so.

Paulose,

Are you trying to save more souls??.. go and preach to the gullible.. :-)
I`d probably advise people to take your prophet and shove him into the other prophet`s a**.

Enough of religion.. What you are suggesting is for people to move from one cage to another.. Or do like Ambedkar did, become a Buddhist/rationalist/atheist..

paulose

Are you willing to discuss the validity of your assertions?

RE # 123 Warrier

Mallus have every right to go anywhere in the world and take any jobs anywhere. Like they have always done. Especially anywhere in India. Of course it is a no-brainer because kerala is a part of India. And no brahmins (are Warriers brahmins? i know you people are temple worker caste or some such shit and a level above nairs) is gonna tell anything otherwise to any Mallu.

Sanatani
Since you have no clue how Warriers are different from Nairs you would do well to go and read a bit about Kerala. I suggest you stick to your partition theories.


About clothing

Social custom (I cannot be sure if it was a law, but customs are worse than laws ) forbade Dalit women from wearing any upper clothing. The upper caste women would wear an upper garment (neriyethu) if they chose to. The Nair women would even wear an article of clothing called a mulakocha under the neriyethu. Traditionally Varma and Nair women wore only the former garment on their upper bodies. But practices vary throughout Kerala.

Now while I still don`t think Beady`s apology makes any sense, at least we know that the caste system will continue to live on in India as long as there are people who try to justify it. And that includes the Christians and Muslims who are not averse to practising it either.

Lastly Paulose`s Malayali gang who would rather be known as Keralites than Indians would have no qualms about running to other parts of India for jobs if they were kicked out of the expatriate communities in which they live. Bunch of losers.

Most Indians, like brahmins on this site, after going abroad feel like they are the greatest $hit but don`t do jack for their village or country. And they like to talk about big things on sites like this one as if they know evryhting under the sun. And even tho they behave humbly and with deference to the whites in US or other country when they come back to India they are the tigers who want the bloody indians to serve their every whim

Malayalis who have abroad have changed the whole face of Kerala. Check out the article below.



Kerala worthy of emulation by all: Kalam

http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/001200612201431.htm

Thrissur, Dec. 20 (PTI): Terming Kerala as a forerunner in the fields of education, art, culture and social harmony President Dr A P J Abdul Kalam today said the state is worthy of emulation by all.
Inaugurating the valedictory function of the golden jubilee celebration of the formation of Kerala state, he said ``I had learnt a lot while I was working at the Vikram Sarabhai Space Research Centre at Thumpa in Thiruvananthapuram``.
``Environment creates a beautiful mind, beautiful mind creates creativity and creativity is indeed the foundation of growth,`` he said.
The President said the last 50 years have seen tremendous changes taking place in various fields in the state.
``Change is the reflection of the urge to develop. Without changes and challenges a society will remain stagnant``, he said.
``With all its natural wealth, beautiful surroundings and enlightened people, Kerala is really and literally God`s own country,`` he said adding it was always a pleasure for him to visit the state.
A poet in 1880s wrote a poem about New Zealand, where the country was referred to as God`s own country, he said, adding ``I am very happy that the title God`s own country which has been used by New Zealanders to describe their country for more than 120 years has been adopted by the people of Kerala to describe their own state.``
Emphasising the need for developing waterway connections in the state, Kalam said ``I have a dream, my dream is to travel from Thiruvananthapuram to Kasargod in Kerala`s smart waterways.``
Expressing optimism, he said one day, the Kerala Chief Minister, political leaders and all political parties will ensure that Kerala`s beauty will be enhanced by implementing the `smart waterways` from Thiruvananthapuram to Kasargod.
Kalam said during his 20-year stay in Kerala, he had travelled throughout the state and had understood the people, their way of life and their problems.
Lauding the NRIs in various countries, he said ``when I travelled abroad I used to meet people from India settled in those countries. People of Kerala, wherever they are, want to see their state grow and prosper. They want to come to Kerala and spend their time with their kith and kin.``
For any state to develop,it needed three characteristics. First and foremost India being a multi-cultural,multi-language and multi-religious state, needed `unity of minds` and in this respect Kerala is a blessed state, he said.
Keralites settled outside the country visited their state quite often and ``out of their sweat we get Rs 20000 crore every year`` and finally the unique quality of Kerala was the state had sufficient ``water and bio-diversity resources.``
``When you have all these what more do you want to transform Kerala into a developed state. Fifty per cent of population in the state is youth below 25 years and this is the most powerful resource on the earth. Definitely with so much of youth resource Kerala`s political system should work for a beautiful, prosperous and peaceful Kerala,`` he said.

Now coming to caste discussion with special attention to Kerala.

Everyone knows Muslims and Christians together form close to 50 % of
Kerala population now. But what most people don’t know is before
British consolidated their hold on Kerala, around 1792, the population
of Christians (the Syrian Christians) was less than 5 % and Muslims
about 5 - 7 %. Today Christians are 22 % and Muslims more than 25 %.


The reason being Malayalis are generally smart and the low castes found
self-respect in Christianity and Islam and converted to these religions
in large numbers and pulled themselves and Kerala up.

And now Kerala leads India in Social Indicators like high literacy, low
infant mortality, low birth rate, longer life, etc.


In present day Kerala it is an accepted fact that being a Hindu is not
the most kosher thing and Muslims and Christians are running the show. Most Hindus are apologetic about being hindus. In fact Hindus
in Kerala, especially Nairs and Ezhavas, are under attack from
everywhere especially from the Brahmin communities from outside like
Iyers, Pardeshi Brahmins and Nambudiris.
That is why I am just here to just set matters straight and defend them.
And though RSS has fairly good presence no real Malayali hindu communites
like Ezhava or Nair would dream of voting for BJP. Only votes BJP gets
is in
Palakkad area where the migrant Iyers live.

The so-called Kerala Iyers in Kerala go out of their way to say they are
from Kerala but
they are definitely not real Malayalis , I can tell you that, because of
their innate casteist bearings which is very evident here on this forum.

It is generally accepted that it was only because of Nairs, who were in
power, that the Iyers felt welcome and at home in Kerala after they were
kicked out of Tamil land, and they have prospered in Kerala. So it is
very surprising to see when I saw an Iyer guy here trying to slander
Nair people here with half-truths and insinuations. Anyways you cannot
expect more from Brahmins who introduced caste-system into Kerala and
divided a whole people.


FYI- the man of the match, Sreesanth, of the India-South Africa match
which India won is of Nair caste but is true Malayali who besides having
a hindu-god locket also wears a christian Cross and says a prayer
whenever he passes a muslim mosque. Now that is a real Malayali.

Another FYI – according to a recent survey more than 60 % Malayalis
(more than any other Indians) identify themselves as Keralites from
God’s Own Country of Kerala than as Indians from India.

As someone who has seriously studied Anthropology just want to put my 2
cents on the clothing discussion with special reference to Kerala.

In India, before Muslim invasion, women every-where were going about
“top-less” because as Seinfeld would say because “there was anything wrong with
that” and it was just an accepted way of dressing in India. Till the
Muslim invaders came and introduced stitched clothing, most hindus wore
sheets for lungi/dhoti and sheets to cover upper body. This is very
evident from all sculptures and paintings of Hindus of themselves
and their goddesses up until the Muslim invasion.

This includes all India including Punjab, Bengal and Tamil Nadu.
Because of Muslim influence the hindus including Iyer women started
covering their breasts, by the time British with modern photography
arrived and started jotting down their anthropological observations. I guess the Iyers have to thank the Muslim Nawab of Arcot for having their grand-mommies start wearing
stitched clothing before the British came.

All of India was under some Muslim ruler or other except Kerala when the
British slowing consolidated their India colony. If you are familiar
with Kerala geography you can see that Kerala is separated from Tamil
Nadu/Karnataka by Western Ghats and only way to enter Kerala is from
South - Kanyakumari, from Central Palakkad gap and from North. So
Kerala was always separated, geograhically and politically, from rest of
India till British came and no mughals or their generals ever reached
upto Kerala or occupied Kerala.

Kerala was always under small feuding Hindu kings with the 3 major
kingdoms Kozhikode, Cochin and the Travancore besides other small ones.
The Hindu kings of Kerala had always warded off the Muslim incursions
from Karnataka and only successful incursions were made by Hyder Ali and
his famous son Tipu Sultan who though they invaded and defeated the
Kerala kings could not hold on for very long.

Because Kerala was never under any Muslim ruler till British came, their
clothing was similar to what most Indians, all over India, always wore
before the first Muslim invaders ever came thru Khyber and Bolan passes
of Hindu Kush. Which meant the Malayali hindu women covered themselves
with sheets of clothing (no stitched clothing) and fully covered
themselves (top and bottom halves of their bodies) unlike what Harimau
is trying to insinuate here.

Mind you - the foreigners in Kerala - the tiny Syrian Christian,
Moplah-Arab Muslims and Kerala Jews did have stitched clothing, blouses
etc., at that time which they bought from Middle-East even though rest of Kerala Hindus were wearing sheets and their men and women of these communities fully covered
themselves.

The author need not apologise to anyone here.

No need for any patronizing attitude here.

If you look at united Bengal (Bangladesh and West Bengal), all the so
called low castes got rid of caste systems simply by converting to
Islam. They are not waiting for anyone’s apologies.

In Bangladesh (pop. 140 million) 90 % are Muslims and in West Bengal
(pop. 80 million) 25 % are Muslims. In neighboring Assam, 25% are
Muslims, mostly Bengalis.

The rest of low castes and dalits, who are tired of casteism, in rest of India are doing the same thing despite the anti-conversion laws in BJP ruled states.

Interesting discussion going on here. Don’t mean to butt in a purely
hindu matter but since people are talking about Kerala without knowing
jack, I thought I would clarify a few things. I am a true-blue Mallu
and can clarify some points here.

Firstly, I think only Harimau Iyer is being honest here about his true
casteist feeling. Rest of the obviously upper caste hindus mostly
Brahmin people here like Kaalchakra, Dost-Mitter, Sanatani, Ranjit,
etc. are justifying caste by putting a good spin to it.
They will definitely give Tony Snow, the white house press secretary, good competition.

Re: # 43

dost-mittar

``I agree with you that, collectively, we upper caste hindus should apologise for the behaviour of our ancestors in practising untouchability.``

Excuse me dear DM, this is your ego speaking ``we upper caste hindus``. It reminds me of `Hindu paani` and `Muslim paani` at the railway stations in the prepartition India. Interestingly, there was no Sikh or Christian paani. It was only the establishment of Pakistan which put an end to this silly practice. What is the position in India now I don`t know.
What is important the Muslims did not feel any inferior due to this untouchability practiced against them by Hindoos. In fact they pitied them for their silly taboos. So it is basically a psychlogical matter born out of social and economic subjugation of the aborigines of India called `Shoodars`. The day the Shooders get rid of their inferiority complex by following Gotam Budha and Bhagat Kabeer their untouchability would no longer be a problem for them.