An Untouchable Apology

Naqshbandi#114:

``The equality of all believers in Islam is probably one of the main reasons people convert to Islam --especially in India as it immediately removes you from the bane of the caste system``

Most Muslims and many Hindus have bought into this notion but I do not think that it holds true, especially in the areas that now form Pakistan. Most of the people in Pakistan are upper caste converts, who converted for several reasons, the least of them being escape from the bane of the caste system. Indeed, as you acknowledge in your next post, they took that caste superiority with them. As I have said before, after the creation of Pakistan, while the remaining upper caste Hindus and Sikhs in Pakistan almost all converted to Islam, no one bothered to convert the so-called choorhas who were either allowed to remain Hindus (the so-called Valmiks) or converted to Christianity.

My greatest complaint against the Mughal and other Muslim rulers in India is that they did nothing to make the local society more egalitarian, even accepting the Hindus treating them as Malechhas. The converts took the negative aspects of the Hindu society - mistreatment of lower castes, widows and dowry - to Indian Islam but left behind the more positive features of the society, such as acceptance of religous plurality.

Naqshabandi bhai

I am sorry but I am not an `admirer` of Islam or of Muhammad. Nevertheless, it`s clear that a Muslim can be as good a person as a Hindu and both have an equal opportunity of being divinely favored or disfavored.

You are also on the dot about fewer and fewer Hindus accepting the idea of caste-based discriminations anymore....a hopeful sign, won`t you say?

Re: # 111

thanks for clearing that up for me. :-)

and in fairness i`d say most second third gen hindus who`ve grown up in the West also don`t accept the idea of untouchability.

To find out how open-minded a desi is, it is a good question to ask if they would mind if their daughter/sister/son married a black person. The responses are often so revealing.

Blacks have been looked down upon in most cultures--and in Indo-Pak till now--and there is still racism in the developed West (esp. the US) but imagine in the 7th century the noblest of all Arabs made a black man, Hazrat Balal, his personal muezzin! After this, Sayyidina `Umar would stand up whenever Hazrat Balal would enter his presence and say, `Here comes our Master!` Allahu Akbar.

Although Islam makes no distinction between people of different colours, it greatly saddens me as a Pakistani (ethnically only) that most Pakistanis from there look down upon blacks the same way that Hindus do upon achoots/harijans/untouchables. This is a sickness which has also infected Pakistani society--and has led to the idea of the kammi in society. It is one of the examples of where Hinduism has negatively affected Pakistani Islam. Other such examples are the dowry [jahez] and the taboo against remarrying widows. All these are against Islamic teaching and humanity.

Luckily, Muslims who`ve grown up in the West i.e. second/third gen Muslims usually don`t share their parents prejudices in these areas.

Naqshbandi

Mulk Raj Anand wrote in English. And yes, the shame of the caste system is indefensible.

The equality of all believers in Islam is probably one of the main reasons people convert to Islam --especially in India as it immediately removes you from the bane of the caste system.

``An Arab is not better than a non-Arab and a non-Arab is not better than an Arab. A black man is not better than a white man and a white man is not better than a black man. We are all children of Adam --and Adam was created from dust.`` -paraphrase from memory of Last Sermon of the Prophet in the 7th century.

This from a human being who was born into the noblest and most aristocratic clan in all of Arabia (although his own family was not materially wealthy. Yet when Huzoor uttered these immortal words he was the ruler of all Arabia!)

subhan Allah!

Untouchable by Mulk Raj Anand

This book should be required reading for all Indians. The shame of the caste system is indefensible. BTW is it originally an Urdu/Hindi book and translated into English or was it written in English in the first place?

Harimau is a redoubtable Brahmin against whom gods would dread to argue (note to Masanamuthu and soysauce: this places both of you above than any Chowkie gods :)).


Sanatani

The problem is of practical nature. Can the masses (a billion people, many not very well educated) make the very valid distinctions you make?

#96 by harimau on December 22, 2006 10:08pm PT
Ref tolkinin #78

[...why can`t you change your religion so that you can have conversion to Hinduism.....]

Because the quota for the Brain-Dead has already been oversubscribed by Soyaf@$*ingsauce and his spawn and people of similar caliber.
.........................................
A hindu is who lives in erstwhile Indus (indu) SthAn.....There is No hindu by your criteria b/c i do not how to differentiate between a reformist hindu like ram krishnan tagore gandhi and those muslims who have changed or adopted /adapted themselves to industrialization and techmology....EvenSaudi arabia now isnt what it was 50 years ago certainly not like in 670 A.D.T,V. Cables and large nuber of Non muslimas making living there

#105 Don`t be so harsh on the old man - he can only vent on anonymous web sites..

Unkilji, do you mind using my nick name? Soyf$%*ingsauce takes too long to type.

Actually, lynch mobs are more the work of the O(therf@%*ing)BCs and M(otherf@$*ing)BCs than brahmins.


:-)

Don`t you think a Brahmin Ku-Klux-Clan is the need of the day to protect you folks from such thugs.. Who else is better qualified than you to lead such organization?. You got the theory of racial/caste supremacy, right??.. Man, that should be a lot of fun..

Ref masanamuthu #103

[BTW, you should think about forming a Brahmin version of the Ku-Klux-Clan.]

Actually, lynch mobs are more the work of the O(therf@%*ing)BCs and M(otherf@$*ing)BCs than brahmins.

In fact, you had it right when you wrote

[#89 by masanamuthu on December 22, 2006 9:19pm PT
nice to see grandpa harimau here.. I was worried after reading about attacks on Brahmins in Tamilnadu after the Srirangam Periyar statue desecration..]

Harimau

BTW, you should think about forming a Brahmin version of the Ku-Klux-Clan. You have the right qualifications and it should be more fun. :-)

#98
What`s your point? How many Nair women have so far protested not being allowed to go topless? How many of them have filed public interest litigations demanding the right to do so? Even one?

You can`t equate denial of the constitutional right to Dalits to worship in whichever temples are still closed to them (discrimination against them wrt freedom of religion) with a public nudity law which applies equally to all Indians.

You know what, I am going to put up a statue of Periyar in front of the mosque at Thousand Lights with the statement ``There is no God`` inscribed on the pedestal.


More power to you. I`d offer my support. Screw Allah and his last prophet..