Get over the Victim Syndrome

#106 by Tehsinabbasi

In response to #32 by bulleya:

i.e.....based on that the, ``election`` of the first four caliphs was the earliest experimentation into democracy amongst arabs.......after that day till today, if my history is correct, mecca and medina have had hereditary rule.....

You said in #36:

I am afraid your history is definitely not correct. Abu Bakr was given fielty by Umar and every one followed suit.

Now you seem to be clutching at straws admitting that while Abu Bakr was elected democratically, but Usman wasn`t. After I prove Usman was too, you will say Ali wasn`t and so forth ...

Oh well ...

I have heard that all of Pakistan is going over to Bangladesh to go get their stranded brothers and bring them home, even if they are not as white as Kashmiris.

#64 by zeemax:

Let me try again!

I think you are mixing it all up. The only time the Ansars got a chance to make their case was at the death of the Prophet and this is when the suhabis you mentioned made their case to have one of their own selected as the new leader. Sa’d bin Ubadah made this plea and was a candidate from the Ansars but Abu Bakr succeeded. No such Ansar appeal or participation took place during Uthman’s selection, and they were not part of any shura or selection committee.

#97 by okhla99

Re: # 93

Granted that the people are compassionate and warm. But so they are all over the world.

How many college kids rushed from California to help the Katarina victims?

bj,

......... i think you asked me about the difference between sunnis and shias - i am sorry i don`t have good news for you : the sunnis are homicidal, whereas the shias are suicidal ......... in either case they are bad news for hindoos and other assorted infidels

#101
[the way Pakistanis rushed to help in the recent earthquake showed the big hearts and generous spirit of our people...]

All except for Hamidm2, who immediately rushed huffing and puffing, checkbook and pen ready, to the campaign donation site of the great Congressman Eatallofus Towns of Brooklyn, New York!

#98

Ama yaar, where in the article does it mention ``India``?!!

Where in my interacts do I absolve ``India``?!!

It is time you guys took responsibility for your own act.

It is time you guys stopped looking for ``India`` to blame.

It is time you guys started focussing on where your problems really are.

It is time you addressed those at their source - in ``West India``! (Mislabeled Pakistan.)

zeemax: Excellent point - the way Pakistanis rushed to help in the recent earthquake showed the big hearts and generous spirit of our people!!

#95 bjk: So you say Pakistan (sorry, West India) is a failed state. Question: How many pink elephants do you see doing sumersaults in mid-air above the failed state of West India?

I learnt a new panjabi proverb on this board: Hooka vi tooR geya tay nalay Malangni vi Yeh geya :-)

Thanks kulharee. This board must be the educational channel on Chowk.

#95 BJK


So in your opinion,

India has definitely lived upto its potential.

1. It has successfully met the basic needs of its people. Hours of powercuts and water queues are merely Pakistani propaganda just like farmer suicides and deaths due to cold and hunger.

2. India has successfully protected the minorities. Babri Masjid and Godhra are Pakistani propaganda.

Sure, if you want to believe that. India has

Passed, passed, passed........






....away.

Re: # 93


Chacha Zee,

Granted that the people are compassionate and warm. But so they are all over the world. But then, in South Asia, their state has failed them comprehensively on a number of fronts.

#68 Zeena

[Yes, I am ready to contest any election in Pakistan... ]

But you need to first stand in line behind mian Manto.

What do you mean, you don`t see him?!!

There he is ... right there!

Hiding behind that great portrait of the Jinnah.

Yes, the one over there - right above the toilet door!

Ama yaaran,

This whole concept of ``failed states`` is unclear - but nobody doubts that West India (mislabeled Pakistan) has failed to live up to its potential.

It failed to address the basic needs of its people.

It failed to protect the lives of its minorities - now miniscule.

It failed to protect the honor of its women.

It failed to protect the dignity of its citizens anywhere in the world.

It failed to throw away the yoke of subservience to the West.

It failed to push away the ``we are exclusive and can not live together with other communities unless we are the majority`` mindset of the Jinnah.

And most important...

It failed to develop a system of following values and developing consensus instead of following personalities and bending in front of pure force!

Failed, failed, failed....

Re: # 92
Zee bhai here is what he wrote
``Number one on that list has been discussed at length; few have talked about the 5th on the list which is just as surprising as the first. It’s the 2nd caliph of Islam Omer (May Allah be pleased with him). What is it about him that is so intriguing to a western writer of this age? The only justification I can come up with is that Omer ((May Allah be pleased with him) had an eerie sense of justice and unrivaled sagacity of accountability towards his constituents. It almost seems that he was bi-polar with all due respect because if you look at his demeanor other than as a ruler a very ruthless and stubborn picture emerges. But as a ruler of the people he orders his governor of Egypt in his court because governor’s son beats up a man for defeating him in a horse-race. Omer’s justice is that he gives a stick in the man’s hand and asks him to beat the governor in front of the full court, because it’s his power that his son is drunk on. Makes you wonder, “Where have all the cowboys gone?”

I think if you read this whole para in context you`ll realize that hes trying to give omer (raw) his props, at worst hes guilty of a joke gone bad. From what i have read from him, he seems very impressed with Omer (RAW).

You wrote : ``How come Zeena doesn`t mention that? Or Ahmer Muzammil? Or you Sir? ``

When i did google on him i found out that he also writes for a web portal paktribune.com, look at the excerpt from an article that he wrote after the earthquake.

``We all know what we should and shouldnt do in order to get the successes in this world and the hereafter. The way the common people of Pakistan have come together to help their brothers and sisters in time of need is a Beautiful Thing. This should also once and for all nip it in the bud the question that are we divided as a nation. The way masses of Karachi in particular and the entire country in general have opened their hearts and wallets is a testament all by itself. We are a vibrant nation and once we put our mind to it we can do anything. I only hope and pray tha t this administration can pull itself up by the boot-straps and coordinate this relief effort, after all, the money raised is not going to do any good if its not spent immediately for the relief of this disaster region. Time is of essence and the people of Pakistan are watching. They have done their share like always, its time that leadership for once delivers.``

The url is

http://paktribune.com/news/index.shtml?122925

In a another article on the same subject he writes and i quote :

``I always wonder how much humiliation and rape will it take from the elite & ; ruling classes of Pakistan for the masses to rise and claim there God-given right of respect? I mean we are not asking for much here are we? Would it be too much for the ``SUITS`` to at least pretend to be sincere in this time of devastation? When they parade in disaster stricken areas with their designer attire and the GUCCI glasses and do photo ops with the already ravaged, don`t they for once realize that the hypocrisy is so obvious that it`s not even funny anymore? On one hand we see common relief workers, whether they belong to Al �Rasheed or Jamat-e-Islami or Jamatud-dawa, you can see that these workers blend in, there determination and spirit exudes from their dirty faces and un-ironed clothes. While we are on this subject of photo-ops, can the movie stars and random TV stars who can hardly lift their own egos let alone rabble also spare us their presence in that region. It`s not a museum or picnic spot for crying out loud, why do these people feel this urge to take up space in the helicopters just so they can be conveniently filmed while crying, what good does that do? What are they inspecting anyway, do they just want to make sure that this actually happened, believe you me no one is lying, there will be other opportunities where you can pretend to care, spare us this one. Let me also say that this pretentious behavior doesn`t hold true for all, people like Anwer Maqsood, Abrar, Junaid Jamshed, Imran Khan and many other celebrities are doing real work on ground to make the lives of these people easier. My hats off to all of those who are sincerely helping in this time of immense need.``

As you can see hes clearly saying what u were alluding to.

#91 by okhla99

It is the people who decide whether a state fails, or not. If thousands of Pakistanis rushed from Karachi to Muzaffarabad in a day in little suzukis to help the earthquake victims, when the army took three days to do the same in their helicopters, it is not a failed state.

How come Zeena doesn`t mention that? Or Ahmer Muzammil? Or you Sir?

Of-course ... you only mention little clerks charging their fees, and headline items like poverty, crimes against women, and export of terrorism.

Yes you`re too a Munafiq if you only point out the weaknesses, and conveniently leave out the strengths which overshadow the weaknesses by far.