Pakistan-Afghanistan Relations: The Choice Between Alliance and Acrimony

re:143

They are the few, we are the many...that is what you forget in this whole scenario of brutality

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okhla (the sob) writes <<< We in the subcontinent MUST ensure that the extremist mindsets are eliminated at the earliest.

And that includes you, Masadi.... >>>

This is quite amusing, accuse your opponent of being ``extremist`` and then asking for his elimination and then parading as being a moderate. Reminds me of those that destroy countries and then while labelling their opponents extremist because they don`t share in their inhumane worldview. Your friend here is forgetting that unlike the ``Islamists``, the US elite control the media and justifying their reprehensible behavior and unmatched barbarism in using this media for their perverse ends, by saying its `payback` time is not only ignorantly idiotic it is pathetically and blatantly shallow and dishonest in analysis. Neither you, nor your dictator friend neither your threats of violence scare me. I am not as vested in this world your tyrant friends have created, in other words I have nothing to lose but the world has much to gain with resisting the oppressors...

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/6b4d7076-9836-11db-b2ac-0000779e2340.html

Violence marks news of Saddam’s execution
BySteve Negus, Iraq Correspondent

Published: December 30 2006 19:27 | Last updated: December 30 2006 19:27

Street celebrations and a handful of angry protests erupted in Iraq’s streets early this morning, as the country awoke to the news that former president Saddam Hussein, who had overshadowed Iraqi public life for over three decades, had been put to death.

However, a series of blasts in mostly Shia areas left at least 68 Iraqis dead, while six US troops were reported killed, pushing the death toll for December to 109 and making it the worst month for US forces in two years.

Word of Saddam’s execution broke on state television early in the morning, accompanied at first by patriotic music and archival footage of his security men beheading and beating their victims, then later by pictures of the deposed president being prepared for his hanging.

In the largely Shia suburb of Sadr City, citizens fired into the air, handed out sweets and paraded down the street in their cars. One resident said that he felt a surge of joy the night before as news reports suggested that Saddam’s execution, which he had suspected the wily dictator might yet escape, was becoming an inevitability.

Sunni parts of the country witnessed several demonstrations, reported to be a few hundred strong. But car bombs detonated by presumed Sunni insurgents ripped through a fish market in the southern Iraqi city of Kufa and the predominantly Shia district of Hurriya. It was unclear whether they were planted specifically to avenge the former president.

The different reactions and the continued sectarian violence reflect the legacy of Saddam’s regime, which was dominated by Sunni Arabs and and brutally repressed Shia religious and political movements.

The execution is unlikely to bridge this divide, as perceptions of Saddam’s hanging differ radically between Sunni Arab and Shia. Even the timing of his hanging seemed to reinforce the sectarian gap – although Iraqi law bans executions during religious holidays, it took place just as the Sunni’s Eid al-Adha feast was beginning. Shia begin celebrations a day later.

However, Saddam’s death could bolster the confidence of the Shia parties which dominate the government, who are fighting to shore up their popularity among their own constituency.

Many Shia claimed to doubt that Saddam would actually be executed, leaving the door open to a possible return of his ruling Baath party to power.

Even the last minutes of Saddam’s life seemed to reinforce that the old order was gone for good. One of the witnesses, Judge Munir Haddad, was quoted by CNN as saying that as the noose was being tightened around Saddam’s neck, one of the hangmen shouted out “Long live Moqtada al-Sadr.”

“Moqtada al-Sadr,” said Saddam mockingly, of the radical young cleric Shia who could hardly have been of much consequence to him while he was president, but who now is among the most powerful men in Iraq. According to the report, those were Saddam’s last words.

and Saddam retorted mockingly,
``Moqtada Sadr``

this is going to drive allah`s chosen homies nuts...

`Hangmen taunted Saddam with Sadr chants`

Agencies
Posted online: Sunday, December 31, 2006 at 1449 hours IST


Baghdad, December 31: Saddam Hussein was sent to the gallows with a final mocking taunt - Shiite witnesses chanted the name of one of his most bitter opponents while the noose was readied.

In video footage of the execution, apparently captured on a mobile phone and spreading across the Internet, members of the party carrying out the hanging can be heard chanting ``Moqtada, Moqtada, Moqtada!``

The reference is to Moqtada al-Sadr, a radical Shiite cleric whose father Mohammed Bakr Sadr and whose uncle were murdered by Saddam`s agents, and who has risen to prominence since Saddam`s fall as a politician and militia leader.

One of the execution party calls: ``Long live Mohammed Bakr Sadr!``

lincoln didn`t account for the pakis..apparently, it`s possible to fool all pakis all the time...which is why you have pakis thinking they won in 65 and kargil and the CIA bombing pakis on paki soil is a victory for pakiland..

How Ayub wasted the China card —Ahmad Faruqui

This episode of history is rich in lessons. First, Ayub should not have gone into a war without thinking through the consequences of sending his forces into Kashmir. He made a fatal error of generalship when he assumed that India would not retaliate against Lahore. This strategic myopia would be imitated by Yahya and Musharraf.

Ironically, by then China and the US had reconciled their differences. Both had a common interest in saving Pakistan. The US moved the aircraft carrier USS Enterprise into the Bay of Bengal but this did not deter Indira Gandhi from moving ahead with her war plans to invade Dhaka. According to an interview given many years later by General Sam Maneckshaw, who was then the Indian army chief, Indira Gandhi dismissed the American threat as irrelevant, saying everyone would be dead if Delhi was nuked. Later, the Americans revealed they never intended to attack Delhi. Their goal was simply to rescue American servicemen trapped in East Pakistan.

In the mean time, GHQ was telling Gen. Niazi that he would be bailed out by yellow from the north (Chinese) and blue from the south (Americans). When paratroopers began to land around his HQ, the feckless general sent his assistant to out to check their colours. He came back with really bad news. They were brown.

The fourth lesson is that it is always a bad idea to pick a fight with an adversary who is several times bigger and who has further armed himself with a cogent diplomatic strategy. And the final lesson is to say you won when you did not.

Re: # 136

That was shameful. Reprehensible behaivour cannot be condoned no matter who the perpetrator. Believe me, friend, no decent Muslim or Hindu could have possibly rejoiced at atrocious treatment, whether meted out to Capt Kalia or to Daniel Pearl or the innocent at Godhra or elsewhere.

We in the subcontinent MUST ensure that the extremist mindsets are eliminated at the earliest.

And that includes you, Masadi....

I find the hanging video very distasteful. It turned my stomach to be honest. It is quite easy to see why there is a such a large support across the globe for banning death sentences.

But having said the above, I was ripped when Islamists beheaded Daniel Pearl and countless others over the decades on camera and proudly crowed with delight. At that time, when this was issue brought up, all we heard was arrogant horse shit about how it is the duty of the faithful to kill -- dismember -- a kaffir and guarantee themselves a place in heaven. Now it is payback time. Surely, you islamists -- please note I am NOT talking about ordinary muslims here -- should understand the principle ``An eye for an eye``.

What I find breathtakingly amazing is that the same scum who scoff at anything non-islamic are talking about the Geneva Convention!!!! and POWs. I mean the same people who crowed with delight at the pain suffered by Indians when Capt. Saurabh Kalia`s patrol was ambushed and slaughtered.

Re: # 38

ijaz_gul #38

`` (The only thing Pakistan could do after 9/11 is to save your hide. Zalme Khalilzad is too busy in Iraq to be involved in Afghanistan).
How do u know that and what is he busy in? ``

Zalme Khalilzad has been ambassador to Iraq for the past year. Given the mess in Iraq I doubt he has any time for Afghanistan.

`` (Why spout typical ISI propaganda ? Are you getting paid for it ? do you have any answer as to why all the violence is concentrated in provinces along Pakistani border ?)
Anyove who knows Afghan and Pashtoon history can vouch for this. This is the polarisation that shall lay the seeds of re drawing. OK. As for pay roll, its my opinion and conciense. The Government of Pakistan said it now. I said it immediately after 9/11. Please take time to read my interacts of that era. ``

If the violence is concentrated along the Pakistan border it is safe to conclude that people formenting the violence are using Pakistan as a base with/without active support of Pakistani authorities. If you have a logical explanation please forward us.

`` (In the long run it is 80 million Punjabis in Pakistan versus 25 million Pusthuns in NWFP/Afghanistan. )
Yes, this is the wish list of many like you, giving urself away ``

Nope it is not my wish list. Punjabi elite in Pakistan has monopolized resources for their military, nukes, disputes with India. Unless resources are shifted to economic development the non-Punjabi groups will eventually want out. I presume you learnt something from 1971.

Why would Pakistani military back ``Islamic groups`` in NWFP and Afghanistan ?
Do you really think that Punjabi Muslims are a shinning example of Islamic virtue or an Islamic political system ?