Saddam - The Sacrificial Lion

#40 by masadi on January 2, 2007 10:19am PT


how it destroyed civil society in Iraq


Yup...``civil society`` under a brutal dictatorship is bad if the dictator in question is muslim(and sunni)...but yugoslavia`s civil society being destroyed to give the muslims bosnians or kosovars their freedom is, well, kosher..


and deliberately played one group against the other


yup...the US invasion created the rift between shia and sunni....the sunnis and shias didn`t kill each other under saddam because they just loved each other to death...saddam`s iron fist had nothing to do with it...

Re: # 45 masadi

You make a compelling case but I think it is also a part of Western propaganda to create a perception around the globe that American people are dummies and puppets and there is an elite group who pulls their strings and media controls their mindset. I think the origin of this propaganda lies in the era of Cold War when Soviets protrayed a capitalist elite as the nemesis who was controlling masses in West. After the collapse of soviet union, the Goebles in Western propaganda machinery just keep perpetuating the myth, since it helps them play innocent at times.

#48, Urstruly {``The fact of the matter is that I will lay down my life for the honor of Ali (ra) or any ahl-e-bait, just like any Muslim, then why a shia child is raised on the basis of hatred for his fellow Muslim.

...At the time when battle for caliphates were being fought in Arabia my great great grandpa lord Ram was mired in the troubles of his own. The then emperor of sri lanka, had kidnapped grandma. It took long time to recover grandma even though grandpa had help from the chief minister of tamil nado, who happened to be a monkey at that time.``}

Brother Urstruly,
Eid Mubarak and a Happy New Year to you, my good friend. Anybody who can drive Hamidum Sahib to drink (although it doesn`t take much persuasion) is a hero in my own estimation. When such a person can simultaneously expose the hippo in the hypocratic Tahmed, we all benefit. So, all praise and felcitations are due to you and your valiant efforts in leading the jihad against jahils. :)

Now, as for your comment about laying down your life for Imam Ali, I request that you don`t go that far - just resist the temptation to support that rogue Muawiya and his line of Abu Sufyan tadpoles. Besides, we need your life to make Hamidum`s more exciting.

Now, Shia children are not raised in hatred of Sunnis - especially momin ones like you. If you look throughout history, it is the Shias who have been massacred by Sunnis in large numbers - Ottomans in Turkey, Tally Ban in Afghanistan, Sadman Houston in Eye Rack, Soodis in Arabia, and Saladin in Egypt. The only case in the reverse direction is possibly that of Hafiz Assad massacring the Sunni Muslim Brotherhood in Syria. So much for hatred and yes numbers do count.

I am glad that your grandma was recovered. :) So you guys can stop terrorizing Sri Lanka now. It`s been a long, long time.

#48 by Urstruly on January 2, 2007 10:58am PT


The fact of the matter is that I will lay down my life for the honor of Ali


very niiice...

#49 arjun {``yup...the US invasion created the rift between shia and sunni....``}

Arjun,
When it comes to intra-Muslim fratricide, we are on auto pilot. We don`t need the US invasion of Eye Rack, or Indian invasion of East Pakistan to fight each other. In fact, when there are no Shias, our Sunni bros kill each other. In East Pakistan, there were hardly any Shias. So now, here is the pecking order:

1. Kaffirs - the horrible hindoos that Hamidum doesn`t like but for whom he buys cheap booze
2. People of the Book - you guys and Borat
3. Shias -
4. Fellow Sunnis - including Urstruly
5. Fellow tribesmen - all the zais that produced Hamidum - Popal, Yusuf, Achak,
6. Suicide - as in self-elevation to the highest level. :)

Re: # 52
Arjun,,, these jokers will sell their mothers to come live in the west, can’t change despotic regimes in their own countries, but are willing to lay down their lives for the honor of some dead guy. I tell you, there is nothing like Islami Jazba.

#42 i dont think amricans refuse their responsibility..they are in it with their (and your) tax-dollars and life and limb of their children. they have elections on this issue (a sign of taking responsibility) and that is why they are likely to ``learn`` from this. the question is how will the ummah larn, if they dont take the first step of acceptance?

This post is for one special person...we all know know that person is:

A while ago Princeton philosopher Harry Frankfurt wrote a tiny little book called ``On Bullshit``

His analysis, in part, is that the bullshitter and the liar are not the same: the bullshitter is much worse. Have not read the little tome for a while so forgive me if I do not do justice to Frankfurt`s analysis. It seems that a bullshitter is in fact indifferent to truth and falsity. His/her aim is not to communicate information (which by definition is veridical). His/her aim is to mold people`s personal belief systems in such a way that it is advantageous to him/her and/or to some ``cause`` they are promoting.

A liar merely wants to deceive some person or persons to believe a falsehood. The bullshitter simply mixes lying and truth as different flavors in his/her narrative. The bullshitter is indifferent to the primordial function of language: to convey truth.

Can you guess who the bullshitter is here?

HP #56, {``A while ago Princeton philosopher Harry Frankfurt wrote a tiny little book called ``On Bullshit`` ...His analysis, in part, is that the bullshitter and the liar are not the same: the bullshitter is much worse.... such a way that it is advantageous to him/her and/or to some ``cause`` they are promoting. ``}

HP,
All this wisdom coming from a recently discontinued laser printer!

#57
The one expected response......

the former puppet of the United states has been hanged by the current puppets of the United States -- tomorrow the current puppet Maliki will be hanged by another puppet of the United States -- so what else is new in the puppet lands of the United States....

......so where is the fucking `milestone` in this routine funny business?

the funniest ``milestone`` would have been if the Mexico invaded the United States -- caught Mr. Cheney from his hell hole in the white house -- examined his bloody canines on camera for cavities -- and had him sentenced by Justice Thomas in Alcatraz -- for crimes against humanity in Irak -- and then handed him over to Madame Pelosi -- to `hang till death` -- under the new international law for mass killers -- for `a mother of all milestones` in the anals of the United States history.

I must say this is a well-argued article altho i disagree with the central thesis of it - saddam is no saladdin altho he fancied himself to be such.
#44 kaurasach & #26 subashjoshi have made, imo, some profound points. Saddam was propped up by the CIA (not europeans) and supported in his war against iran by the US & the saudis. The europeans, who have mastered the art of fishing in troubled waters, unlike the americans whose foreign policy tends to be coarse, mean, moralizing, and militaristic, sold armaments to both iraq and iran and kept the war going as long as possible. They recognized the golden goose once they saw it. As for CIA`s role in Saddam`s ascent to power and his subsequent actions, Prof. Juan Cole, has the whole sordid history on his website (Juancole.com).
Saddam, the brave, was ready to sacrifice others when he himself surrendered to the occupation army without firing a shot. He may have redeemed himself somewhat by showing definance in his death but if you are going to hold up anything as symbolic of arabic attitude, the moment of his surrender was it.

On the parallel discussion on the culpability of americans in the destruction of iraq, the american public as a whole is indisputably culpable. This is supposed to be the freeest nation in the history of the universe which makes its populace completely responsible to whatever happens in its name. Have they lived up to that responsibility? Absolutely not. A foreign venture every few decades where they end up destroying another nation (vietnam, nicaragua, haiti, afghanistan, iraq) shows that american public sees nothing wrong in invading other nations periodically and grind them into dust.
Same goes for iraqis, pakistanis, or indians altho perhaps to a lesser extent.

On pakistani culpability, remember Najibullah?

jang writes <<< they have elections on this issue >>>

Saddam also had ``elections `` as does every Pakistani dictator, elections mean nothing, they are a facade, how are campaigns carried out, who determines whom to cover and the issues to be debated and most of all who has the wealth to take part in all of this are the real tell tale. And urstruly, the media`s effects on the public, especially when this concentrated is no soviet conspiracy invention, many studies have been conducted on it, it is part of the organization of power in the US.

soysause writes <<< This is supposed to be the freeest nation in the history of the universe >>>

Free? The moment you step outside after you wake up in the morning, you are surrounded by all kinds of laws and rules from the time of birth to death, everyting is standardized and concentrated in a few hands and that is freedom? Never has that word been so abused as it is as American propaganda. The people in America are among the unfree-est people on the face of the earth not only in this subtle fashion but also explicitly, this nation imprisons more people per capita than any country on the face of the earth...

so masadi nothing will please you. pakis have dictators which are welcomed by the awam with gende ka har and dancing in the street but they are not representatives. nancy wins elections but she is not representative either. what do you want, a god-appointed calipha?

anyways as far i can see amricans are in no confusion as to their involvement in the iraq war and do not deny it and are paying thru their collective noses for it. they accept responsibilty in full. therein lies a chance...for ummah its on to somalia.